Bad Habits?

D!ve^Bomb!

I got my letter today in acknowledgement of my application for a driving test...

So I thought I would start a thread and ask what people's worst habits were when driving.

I know that the way I drive now that I would probably fail. For instance, I use the clutch incorrectly according to the department of transport. Those bastards!!

When coming to a round about or somewhere where I wouldn't necessarily have to stop I wouldn't really say... go into second gear and then release the clutch, I would just leave the clutch in until such time when I would want to accelerate. Apparently this is a big no no:(

When coming to lights or anywhere I have to stop. I don't come down gear by gear. But I’m working on this bad habit.

I think they are my worst habits. Other than that I’m pretty good. I’m very aware, I always use correct signals etc etc. also like everyone else i do sometimes go too fast but this won't be a problem in the test...

Other thing I’ll have to learn is stuff like hand signals

What' your worst habit(s)?

puntosporting

The clutch thing your talking about is coasting and a big no no in terms of the test.
I was in that habit years ago its easy enough to get out of it just have faith in your driving and car control.

D!ve^Bomb!

i have confidence but in a situation where you have to go down to lets say second gear and you're coming to a round about.. then there may be a point where you slow down soo much where the car might want to cut out on ya so i just keep the clutch in to avoid the embarassment:)

I know i could also go into 1st gear but takin off in first gear on a 97 1.2 punto is a bit of a jerk when you're already moving.. i should really get a new car:D

enda_4

Driving with one hand on the gear stick has to be my biggest.

Another big no no in the exam is changing gears when crossing a road, coming out of a junction

seamus

I can tend to change gears on a roundabout or tight corners. Actually, I tend to change correctly into the corner, then change down to accelerate out when I pass the apex. It's not really ideal.

Lainey

i used to coast all the time then after a lesson one day i went out drivin in the car for about three hours.. got myself out of it..

worst thing i found was the constant looking at mirrors.. i tried to reason with the instructor that it could cause an accident cos i spent so much time looking at mirrors.. my instructor told me to just glance..

also kept pulling up the handbrake without using the button..

i used to rest my left hand on the gear stick..

for some reason these were harder to get out of than coasting for me.. :rolleyes:

of course since i got the test i can be seen coasting while havin my hand on the gear stick while pullin hand brake turns without pressing in the button. :rolleyes:

D!ve^Bomb!

enda_4 wrote:

Driving with one hand on the gear stick has to be my biggest.

I used to always do this.. but my gf is always tellin me... ''10 and 2''!! so since i have started putting my hands in the correct position it's becoming second nature... but i still put hand on gear stick as your arms get tired after a while:)

enda_4 wrote:

Another big no no in the exam is changing gears when crossing a road, coming out of a junction

If i'm coming out of a junction in first gear there is NO WAY IN HELL i can avoid moving into 2nd gear... otherwise the car will rev like a mofo

D!ve^Bomb!

Lainey wrote:

also kept pulling up the handbrake without using the button..

what do you mean? as in pushing the button when lifting the handbreak?

trotter_inc

enda_4 wrote:

Driving with one hand on the gear stick has to be my biggest.

Yeah - its just so much more comfortable than having both your hands on the wheel!

Lainey

newband wrote:

what do you mean? as in pushing the button when lifting the handbreak?

ye.. i love the clicky sound.. .. was told not to do this :rolleyes:

comanche

make sure you get lessons before test, very important, you should have gotten them before you started driving, stops you from picking up bad habits

some habits you need to get into (what I can think off top of my head, sure there are many more)

1. No coasting, big no no as said above.

2. When doing any manovour check rear view mirror and then side mirror on the side of the direction you are moving. If changing direction in laned traffic check blind spot.

3. Check rear view mirror regurally (move head, make obvious)

4. When you change gears check mirrors

5. Brake before changing down gears, only change gears to match car speed.

6. Never go into 5th

7. Drive smoothly - don't rush things. Relax

8. Give other drivers space and respect, it shows that you are anticipating the traffic

9. Never cause an obstruction e.g. if there is a car parked on the opposite side of the street blocking traffic on its side and you are about to quque on your side, you should never get parallel to it, allow oncoming traffic room to pass otherwise you are causing the obstruction.

10. You are allowed cross hands when doing the 3 point turn. Don't do the "wax on wax off" thou

And btw if you are moving you should still be able to take off in 2nd in a 1.2 punto (just don't come off the clutch so quickly). Was driving a 1.3 mitshi spacestar and was able to do it so I don't see why a 1.2 punto wouldn't

D!ve^Bomb!

you were told to push the button in???? WTF why?

D!ve^Bomb!

comanche wrote:

2. When doing any manovour check rear view mirror and then side mirror on the side of the direction you are moving. If changing direction in laned traffic check blind spot.

I always ALWAYS check blind spot.. i'm too paranoid not to

comanche wrote:

6. Never go into 5th

Why? When i'm going 40 in 4th gear the car revs slightly and i feel like i'm pushing it. As i said, it's a **** punto

comanche wrote:

8. Give other drivers space and respect, it shows that you are anticipating the traffic

9. Never cause an obstruction e.g. if there is a car parked on the opposite side of the street blocking traffic on its side and you are about to quque on your side, you should never get parallel to it, allow oncoming traffic room to pass otherwise you are causing the obstruction.

Common sense, no problem

comanche wrote:

And btw if you are moving you should still be able to take off in 2nd in a 1.2 punto (just don't come off the clutch so quickly). Was driving a 1.3 mitshi spacestar and was able to do it so I don't see why a 1.2 punto wouldn't

I can take off no problem, i just don't want the car to stall if i slow down too much.. So i leave the clutch in to avoid this..

My brother was a driving instructor for a while so i'll be getting him to give me some lesson before the test

comanche

newband wrote:

I always ALWAYS check blind spot.. i'm too paranoid not to

I agree it good to do, I always do it, but appently in single lane traffic you don't have to (maybe someone else can clear this up).

newband wrote:

Why? When i'm going 40 in 4th gear the car revs slightly and i feel like i'm pushing it. As i said, it's a **** punto

Coz the speed limit in built up areas is max 40 and just coz the speed limit says 40 doesn't mean you have to do it! However you do have to look out for "lack of progress" here!

newband wrote:

I can take off no problem, i just don't want the car to stall if i slow down too much.. So i leave the clutch in to avoid this..

this is a bad habit for a the following reasons - if you have to drive out of a situation you need to be in the right gear. you are not in control of the car when you are coasting. it affects the balance of the car (if you are doing racing driving you would be though heel toe braking which shifts the balance of the car in the cornor), but braking with the clutch down affects the balance.

Also the two hands on the wheel is very important for control as well - what happens if you get a skid ice/rain/oil with one hand on the wheel - you are buggered.

newband wrote:

My brother was a driving instructor for a while so i'll be getting him to give me some lesson before the test

Get them now - its best to get into the correct habits now. I know didn't and I found it very hard to break bad habits.

Other thing with changing gears at junctions - you are not supposed to change gears while turning. The idea is to get into 2nd before turning (say when turning right from traffic lights), this is where taking your time comes into it - driving smoothly.

seamus

comanche wrote:

I agree it good to do, I always do it, but appently in single lane traffic you don't have to (maybe someone else can clear this up).

Even in single lane traffic you have to. For cyclists or motorcyclists coming up either side of you.

ambro25

Also the two hands on the wheel is very important for control as well - what happens if you get a skid ice/rain/oil with one hand on the wheel - you are buggered.

If you're driving FWD, don't agree with the above: you're skidding (presumably with forward momentum) with no grip from your directional + power-driving wheels. You'll need to handbrake to get the ass out & shift the momentum/balance (force/weight on the front wheels) to allow your front wheels to grip again.

The same can be said in respect of AWD cars, which I drive.

If you're driving RWD, which I also drive (can you see the hair on my chest yet? - real men drive RWD cars ), don't agree with the above either: you're skidding & you may need to counter-turn the wheel faster than two-handed operation allows (e.g. turn the wheel with palm instead of 'grip'), irrespective of using hand-over-hand or another method.

Since starting to drive RWD, I've had plenty of opportunities (too many) to put the above to practice & propose it here from experience. The MX is a bitch on wet roads and those autumn leaves can be deadly on roundabouts! (and that has nothing to do with speed either, it's all a matter of weight transfer, adhrence and wheel torque)

I do agree that you need to in order to pass your test, though

comanche

ambro25 wrote:

If you're driving FWD, mostly not so = you're skidding (presumably with forward momentum) with no grip from your directional + power-driving wheels. You'll need to handbrake to get the ass out & shift the momentum/balance (force/weight on the front wheels) to allow your front wheels to grip again.

well if its on the gear stick your hand is still not in the right place.

ambro25 wrote:

If you're driving RWD, which I drive (can you see the hair on my chest yet? - real men drive RWD cars ), again mostly not so either = you're skidding & you may need to counter-turn the wheel faster than two-handed operation allows (e.g. turn the wheel with palm instead of 'grip'), irrespective of using hand-over-hand or another method.

If you are shuffling then I would have thought that you are not going to be able to move the wheel fast enough, ever!

I would have thought that if you have two hand on the wheel at least you have two hands there to pull the wheel around - I know I can't turn my wheel from lock to lock with one hand. Though I reckon that if you need to put on full lock to get out of a skid you are pretty buggered anyways!

Interestingly enough though in Sweden you are thought though drive in ice/snow conditions using the handbrake when conoring.

Wouldn't mind gettin my hands on a RWD though for a bit of fun thou! Maybe next car should be a beemer!

D!ve^Bomb!

comanche wrote:

Other thing with changing gears at junctions - you are not supposed to change gears while turning. The idea is to get into 2nd before turning (say when turning right from traffic lights), this is where taking your time comes into it - driving smoothly.

Yeah this is no problem... but when i'm turning at a junction from a stationary position then i won't be able to make the full turn without moving into 2nd gear.. as i said, the car revs like a mofo!

twin cam girl

to avoid the embarassment:)

1.2 punto

I think its unavoidable.......

Canis Lupus

twin cam girl wrote:

to avoid the embarassment:)

1.2 punto

I think its unavoidable.......

Or he could get a car like yours and be branded as having no class or taste whatsoever.......

ambro25

comanche wrote:

If you are shuffling then I would have thought that you are not going to be able to move the wheel fast enough, ever!

Shuffling? What is?

If shuffling = driving with palm of hand on wheel instead of gripping it (my understanding, based on your post), then you are indeed truly mistaken - it turns much, much faster, as you don't have to grip, de-grip, re-grip etc... you essentially let the car do the counter-turning for you (indeed, nigh-on letting go of the wheel)

RWD cars have a 'natural' tendency to counter-turn when they 'crab' (unless you're driving on packed snow/ice), you just need to help the wheel along then grip it when you feel the appropriate counter-turn 'zone' is reached (pretty hard to describe, this, unless you've done it, but e.g. when the counter-turn angle is optimal in relation to the speed and direction of the skid and attitude of the car)

And as for driving FWD with hand on gearstick or wheel, the easy answer would be that it's a shorter distance between the gearstick and the handbrake (:D), but easy won't do: your comment makes me wonder if you've ever tried to turn the wheel (one- or two-handed) when you're (if you've ever been) in a skid?

1) If you're in a skid and your front wheels are locked, you're well and truly f**ed, no point in even trying unless you release the brakes and unlock the wheels first, as even with a power-steered car it'll be nigh-on impossible

2) even once the wheels are unlocked (and here I'm also talking about the situation in which you're in a skid and your front wheels are not locked to begin with), you still need to offset the weight (& associated momentum) of the car from the front wheels without the benefit of 'steering' the car to do this, as the lateral friction force exerted on the tyres by the surface is not enough to offset the essentially-perpendicular lateral force weight bearing on them, until the speed (and therefore momentum) recedes and the friction force starts to 'win over'.

If you've got a fair while to skid before the reservation barrier, good for you, you may regain control before then with your 'two hands' - usually, however, you don't and the handbrake (though not an ideal solution by a long stretch of the imagination) is the only chance you've got.

D!ve^Bomb!

Canis Lupus wrote:

Or he could get a car like yours and be branded as having no class or taste whatsoever.......

that deserves + rep:D

bp_me

comanche wrote:

4. When you change gears check mirrors
wtf??

6. Never go into 5th
Again WTF. I go into fifth at 25 or so miles an hour. you cant get the best economy unless you put the car into final drive.

newband wrote:

I used to always do this.. but my gf is always tellin me... ''10 and 2''!! so since i have started putting my hands in the correct position it's becoming second nature

Actually 9 and 3 are fine aswell for the test, and much more comfortable IMHO.

newband wrote:

When coming to lights or anywhere I have to stop. I don't come down gear by gear. But I’m working on this bad habit.

Do you have to come down gear by gear? I nearly always skip 4th as its too easy to hit 2nd by mistake, whereas almost impossible to get 1st from 5th.

seamus

bp_me wrote:

Do you have to come down gear by gear? I nearly always skip 4th as its too easy to hit 2nd by mistake, whereas almost impossible to get 1st from 5th.

More or less. Once or twice skipped a gear is OK if he doesn't makr you for it, but generally you should change down, clutch brake for a few meters, change down again, clutch brake etc, until you're at the lights in second gear. Then you stop dead and change into first.

It shows confident control over the gear system, and the ability to pre-empt the stopping bit. I tend to do it a lot on the bike, when I'm not travelling in traffic. I'll stop in third and change down to first. Which is wrong.

Canis Lupus

Heh heh... gears... who needs em..... I usually rev the **** outta my car in second and then change straight to 4th or 5th..... That'll fail u in an exam, although I'd love to see the testers face if tried

comanche

ambro25 wrote:

Shuffling? What is?

sorry thats my name for when you bring one hand along the wheel to meet the other, slide it back and do the same again. Sorry, I don't know the terminology for this, is it hand over hand or something?

ambro25 wrote:

If shuffling = driving with palm of hand on wheel instead of gripping it (my understanding, based on your post), then you are indeed truly mistaken - it turns much, much faster, as you don't have to grip, de-grip, re-grip etc... you essentially let the car do the counter-turning for you (indeed, nigh-on letting go of the wheel)

Yes driving with the palm of your hand does turn the wheel faster (the wax on wax off as I call it). It is frowned upon coz you don't have grip of the steering wheel - what if the steering kicks back when you get grip, what if your plam slips?

I think perhaps what we are talking about here is an unexpected skid verses an controled skid.

If you get an unexpected skid and you only have one hand on the wheel, the chances are that you may not have that one hand in the right position to turn the wheel to control the skid.

Also if you are using two hands to turn the wheel you don't turn the wheel as suddenly, so in slippery conditions you have less of a chance of causing a skid, jerky movements cause skids.

I have no doubt in your ability to control skids, but i think for the general public keeping both hands on the wheel makes more sense in most cases than keeping one hand there and looking cool!

I somehow doubt that being though to drive with two hands on the wheel is some sort of rule made up by the man just to take the fun out of driving - there is reasoning behind it.

Now as to if we all do it thats another thing!

comanche

newband wrote:

Yeah this is no problem... but when i'm turning at a junction from a stationary position then i won't be able to make the full turn without moving into 2nd gear.. as i said, the car revs like a mofo!

of course you can. you have two options

1. move the car off and slip into 2nd quickly. If you take off like a rocket in 1st though, you won't have time to do this, so move off gently and when the car is just rolling slip into 2nd before turning the wheel. (anyways unless you have a filter or there is no oncoming traffic) you should be moving out to the center of the junction so 1st is sufficent.

2. if you genuinely don't have time to change, don't rev the s**t out of the engine. simple.

just sounds to me like you need to slow down and relax a little ...

comanche

bp_me wrote:

4. When you change gears check mirrors
wtf??

this is just to get you into the habit of checking mirrors - its quiet easy to do.

bp_me wrote:

6. Never go into 5th
Again WTF. I go into fifth at 25 or so miles an hour. you cant get the best economy unless you put the car into final drive.

hmmm wouldn't personally be in 5th doing 25. But remember these are tips for helping pass the test.

The idea of never going into 5th is simply that is you don't have to come all the way down from 5th to 2nd to stop/take turn ect. Its one less gear change to worry about. You want to eliminate the chances of making a mistake.

bp_me wrote:

Do you have to come down gear by gear? I nearly always skip 4th as its too easy to hit 2nd by mistake, whereas almost impossible to get 1st from 5th.

Yes you must come down gear by gear (though if you do an advance drivers couse they will tell you that you don't if you know you are coming to a stop - just worry about stopping). Always stop in 2nd.

The exception to this is if you have to brake suddenly, then of course to hell with the gears. But then again in the test you should be avoiding getting yourself into situations when you have to brake suddenly, but if someone pulls out/person steps off the curb what can you do.

enda_4

newband wrote:

If i'm coming out of a junction in first gear there is NO WAY IN HELL i can avoid moving into 2nd gear... otherwise the car will rev like a mofo

If your at a T-Junction say and your turning right, stay in first gear until you reach ur side of the road, then move up gears, hard i know but i was warned against it and actually no some1 who failed because of it.

another good tip i got was when you are indicating and have to check ur mirrors, just quietly say (enough so the examiner can hear you) "Mirror, signal, mirror" This lets the examiner no you are checking the mirrors even if you don't move your head too much.

Padraig Mor

comanche wrote:

Yes you must come down gear by gear (though if you do an advance drivers couse they will tell you that you don't if you know you are coming to a stop - just worry about stopping). Always stop in 2nd.

The exception to this is if you have to brake suddenly, then of course to hell with the gears. But then again in the test you should be avoiding getting yourself into situations when you have to brake suddenly, but if someone pulls out/person steps off the curb what can you do.

Hmmm.....instructor told me (and another told my friend) specifically *not* to change down gear by gear! As an earlier post said, slow to the speed you want, then select the appropriate gear. I think this makes sense, but I haven't done the test yet! I often change down from 5th to 2nd or 3rd, and especially 4th to 2nd.

ambro25

Fair points, comanche - although I wasn't talking about controlled skids, earlier... and it has nothing to do with cool or uncool (at least in my case).

The fact of the matter is - it depends on the driver (and it's officially frowned upon, so pick your camp) but also on the car.

When I drive the Scooby, I tend to drive 10/2 (yes, both hands, comanche ) as the car is marginally more 'wobbly' than the MX-5 (which is quite a hard ride) and requires more light-touch steering adjustments + driving position is 'normal' (your ass isn't inches off the tarmac). It's still light-years ahead of many other 'larger' cars I've driven to date, but the MX-5, conversely... you point it somewhere and it just goes there, like a kart - provided it's not wet/iced/etc.

But the driving position in the MX-5 is totally different and lends itself to one-handed driving, as your legs are nearly straight and the weel is higher in relation to your head/shoulders axis, the gearknob is nearly in line with your arm extended horizontally, and the gear-shift thresholds are -again- vastly different (On the same urban circuit, I'll change gears at least twice as much in the Mazda than in the Scoob, because I'm already at 2000 rpm in 4th gear at 40mph). It is more comfortable to drive one-handed as I can rest my left forearm on the center console, the height of which is approx. level with my elbow, with my hand on the gearknob. If I drove 10/2, my left arm would always be uncomfortably 'close' to the center console as/when I turn.

But to reprise something which has been written above - no, you don't get the best economy at the highest gear as soon as possible. You get the best economy at the most apporpriate gear in relation to your engine rpm & torque requirement. 5th gear at 25 mph? :eek: I bet the guy's sucking twice as much petrol to get the engine to output the torque to cope with the demultiplication.

bp_me

ambro25 wrote:

5th gear at 25 mph? :eek: I bet the guy's sucking twice as much petrol to get the engine to output the torque to cope with the demultiplication.

Nah, it's a 1l yaris and quite happily slots into 5th at 25 though in fairness it is usually closer to 30 before I change up, though I know it can easily go in at 25. Any lower than that though and you really need to press hard to get it to accelerate up to 30.

ambro25

bp_me wrote:

Nah, it's a 1l yaris and quite happily slots into 5th at 25 though in fairness it is usually closer to 30 before I change up, though I know it can easily go in at 25. Any lower than that though and you really need to press hard to get it to accelerate up to 30.

My point exactly... The 'harder' you press, the more fuel you use when over-geared! e.g. fuel consumption with 'hard press' in 5th at 1,250/1,500 remp (25mph) > fuel consumption with 'soft press' in 3rd at 2,500/3,000 rpm (25 mph). All to do with fuel/air ratio calculated by engine chip, but I'm not going to start a class on stoechiometry here :rolleyes:

bp_me

ambro25 wrote:

My point exactly... The 'harder' you press, the more fuel you use when over-geared! e.g. fuel consumption with 'hard press' in 5th at 1,250/1,500 remp (25mph) > fuel consumption with 'soft press' in 3rd at 2,500/3,000 rpm (25 mph). All to do with fuel/air ratio calculated by engine chip, but I'm not going to start a class on stoechiometry here :rolleyes:

My point is that you dont have to press hard at 25 or so mph, or at least in my case.

ambro25

bp_me wrote:

Any lower than that though and you really need to press hard to get it to accelerate up to 30.

bp_me wrote:

My point is that you dont have to press hard at 25 or so mph, or at least in my case.

bp_me

Clearly I should clarify.

In my experience, the engine doesn't like when you try to accelerate from ~20mph in fifth, but there is no issue when accelerating from ~25mph.

Also http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=+Stoichiology. Did you mean something else when you said

I'm not going to start a class on stoechiometry here

seamus

Also http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=+Stoichiology. Did you mean something else when you said

Different spelling, but his spelling is valid:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=+stoichiometry

bp_me

seamus wrote:

Different spelling, but his spelling is valid:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=+stoichiometry

Typical, I look up what he said, and I pick the wrong word to look up from that.

D!ve^Bomb!

well that didn't take long.. i have my driving test on the 17th January:D

If anyone is applying to a have a test.. then DEFFINITELY include a letter from your employer!!

StRiKeR

I almost fail when I took my test cos I took every turns and corners too tight, that what I was told anyway so that got to be my worst! I'm used to cutting thru corners!

other than that I have lots and lots of bad habit which I manage not too do during the test, things like driving with one hand and not griping the wheel, sending SMS or reading it, looking out the window when I see a nice girl , driving at high rev thru the gears most the time except if I'm in traffic, never use the hand break when I stop at a hill, and I bet theres alot more I couldnt think of right now!

Capt'n Midnight

newband wrote:

I know that the way I drive now that I would probably fail. For instance, I use the clutch incorrectly according to the department of transport. Those bastards!!

When coming to lights or anywhere I have to stop. I don't come down gear by gear. But I’m working on this bad habit.

Practice taking your foot away from the clutch - there may be a foot rest to the side or on the floor - if you hover over it you will end up "riding" it and you can wear out a clutch very fast that way. Re coming down the gears - not necessary as long as you don't freewheel. At all times you must be in control by either being in gear or braking with the pedal (or have the hand brake on when stopped) When I was doing lessons it was drive it up - if the lights changed you weren't supposed to guage your gear changes so that you would creap up to the lights an be in second when they changed. You were to drive up and not delay the traffic behind you. If this means being in fourth and then pressing in the clutch and the brake at the same time fine - remember handbrake on and THEN out of gear (then foot off clutch and relax)

looking over your shoulder when starting (always)
looking behind you over your shoulder when reversing

Fabritzo

I've never read a more elementary conversation about driving before, why is it that some people just haven't got a feel for it and others do? I learned from watching my dad. What can people who have problems driving do better than people who can drive? Or is this conversation just to pedantic and most people find driving easy?

As regard the the test, play it by the book and only use the information that's given to you by qualified sources, don't go by what Billy down the pub told you is definItely right. Whether you get the test or not still seems to be down to the flip of a coin, you'd think people would brush up on the driving ablity after waiting a year to sit the thing.

Good Luck!

ambro25

Fabritzo wrote:

why is it that some people just haven't got a feel for it and others do?

Different (e.g. individual) levels of motor skills? (motor as in limb or hand/eye co-ordination, for instance).

Fabritzo wrote:

What can people who have problems driving do better than people who can drive? Or is this conversation just to pedantic and most people find driving easy?

Don't get the question, sorry: if they have problems, are they not ipso facto precluded from doing anything better than those who don't?

Don't know about 'easy' - depends on one's attitude to the exercise, I'd say: i.e. the more 'important' you consider it, in terms of responsibility when in control of a vehicle, the less 'easy' it is...