AA hand in monday €100 freezeout

Lafortezza

I have 5500 in chips. 3 tables remaining. Average stack is about 8000.
Blinds 150-300.
I'm in middle position. UTG limps, he likes to see his flops with marginal hands.
Its folded to me and I looks down to see two black Aces.

I raise to 1000. SB (Frank for the Fitz regulars) hesitates and calls, UTG also calls a bit reluctantly.

Flop: A 8 3 all hearts.
SB checks, UTG checks, I check.
Turn: a black Q
SB checks, UTG checks, I bet 2000 into a pot of 3300, SB calls, UTG folds.
River: 10 of hearts

SB checks, I check behind, and my trips loses to a rivered flush (SB had Jh10c).

Did I do *anything* correctly in this hand?

Iago

i'd of raised to 1500 pre-flop and all-in after the flop, make them pay for their draw..

doesn't mean i'm right though, in fact i'm probably very wrong!

Lafortezza

of course, all-in on the flop would hae been the correct thing to do, even on the turn it would have been correct to go all-in instead of just betting.
So we're agreed I played it terribly, just wondering if I did anything right...

PHB

If you wanted to not go all in you could raise on the flop, hope for no heart on the turn, then instantly go all in

Hectorjelly

I think the raise preflop and the check on the river were good

Waylander

I agree with HJ, you could have been betting into a made flush.

deeferdog

perhaps the best way to play this hand would be to bet out the flop with the top set.

scenario a. you bet. they fold. you are happy that no blind flopped a flush.

scenario b. you bet. they call. you presume a they have flopped a flush draw and you can adequately gague a turn and river bet based on pot odds

scenario c. you bet. they make a big reraise (suggesting they flopped a medium, definately not nut, flush) you know exactly where you are on the full house draw and can play the odds.

scenario d. you are up against a really high class player and they take your bet as representing an ace big kicker and they take you off the hand. you can then out play them with a set or out draw them with a full house. or just find them stone cold bluffing.

any which way you play it. if you don't bet the flop you don't know how the hell to react on the turn and river.


golden rule. the best way to find out where you stand is by asking.

anyone disagree with this?

Frankygolucky

ok you saved 2.5K by not moving in on turn.But i would have tried to shut My opponent out here and take down the 3300 by moving in.If He calls and hits his flush draw on river ,so be it.I liked You checking the flop giving him just one shot to beat you and not two.

Frankygolucky

Betting only 2k and not 4.5 You are pricing Him in.Not good.

Lafortezza

Hectorjelly wrote:

I think the raise preflop and the check on the river were good

Yes, I agree I played those parts of the hand masterfully.

Just looking back I couldn't have played the hand any worse. Stick it all-in on the flop, if I get called by a made flush I have outs to the house, and even if I get called by a flush draw I'm nicely ahead.

The worst thing was that the SB is an easy read, as soon as he called my underbet on the turn I knew what the outcome was going to be...

dirkey_wynne

I remember that hand - you had just come to my table. I thought a bet on the flop would have been better, as others are saying, but you've seen me play, and you saw how long I lasted the other night so my opinion doesn't count for much!!

Earlier on I saw AA myself (only my second time in all my cardroom visits). I made it 550 to go (blinds 75-150 I think). Guy goes all in for less than that and Joe O Neill calls. I flopped top set. Put in a small bet and unfortunately Joe folded, so I didn't make all that much out of it. What can you do?!

Hectorjelly

Frankygolucky wrote:

ok you saved 2.5K by not moving in on turn.But i would have tried to shut My opponent out here and take down the 3300 by moving in.If He calls and hits his flush draw on river ,so be it.I liked You checking the flop giving him just one shot to beat you and not two.

The problem with moving in on the turn is that you might be the one thats drawing, against a made flush.

DeVore

Hectorjelly wrote:

The problem with moving in on the turn is that you might be the one thats drawing, against a made flush.

you might alright. I hate those kinds of flops. But theres 10 hearts left out of 47 unseen cards. any given card has a 1 in 4.7 chance of being a heart. Two cards in a hand being hearts is therefore 1: 4.7 ^2 or 1:22 (these numbers arent quite exact, its 10:47 * 9:46 which gives 1:24 but I thought for the mathematically challenged I'd simplify it).

There are two opponents, therefore they have two chances of already having a made flush. 2x 1:24 .... by my maths[1], I reckon you are 1:12 against facing a made flush. Not bad odds at all in my book. On the other hand you are likely facing a heart draw from one or other player. Another heart on the turn and you have to drop the hand.

Theoretically you should also reduce the odds by a small bit to represent the tendancy for people to play cards "because they are suited" making it slightly more likely you are facing suited hands but frankly its not all that much of an impact.

You clearly have the best hand bar a fluke so I'd ram jam all my chips in on the flop. This is one of those situations imho where maths simply over rides all else. Being timid is what killed you here imo.

DeV.

[1] I did these calcs in my head but they look right.

Hectorjelly

Yeah, bet the flop; you can either move in or pot commit yourself depending on what exactly you want. If your up against a made flush you have a lot of outs.

What amazes me is how bad the villain played the hand, and this is in a €100 FO!

Preflop he calls with a terrible hand, not just out of position, but out of position in regard to the raiser as well. If it were suited it would be a bad call, unsuited and with the raise being 1/5 of the raisers stack this is unspeakable, and on the turn, he calls with an 2/3 pot bet with an inside straight draw (on a board with a possible flush) and the third nut flush draw. & Remember Utg behind him is still to act.

Hitman Actual

Hectorjelly wrote:

Preflop he calls with a terrible hand, not just out of position, but out of position in regard to the raiser as well. If it were suited it would be a bad call, unsuited and with the raise being 1/5 of the raisers stack this is unspeakable, and on the turn, he calls with an 2/3 pot bet with an inside straight draw (on a board with a possible flush) and the third nut flush draw. & Remember Utg behind him is still to act.

If it's the Frank that I'm thinking of, then this is a totally normal play. A few of the Fitz regulars will play like this... position, pot-odds, stack-size: they all mean nothing. And I'm not knocking their play... lets face it, you can play whatever way you want!

DeVore

Frank Hunt? Ex-boxer, decent fella? He won a big tournie recently (the 270 I think) but some of his calls are sometimes unfathomable, if its the same fella...

Besides Lenny, LaFortezza is the guy who said when people talk about odds he drifts off and thinks about boobies.

DeV.

DapperGent

Time well spent!

Hitman Actual

S***e, I didn't know he's an ex-boxer... I'll be careful what I say in the future! Yeah, he shared the 270 game last week, I was delighted for him... he's been playing in the Fitz since they opened the doors, so he's definately put in the hours. And speaking of the AA v JT, he broke me in a cash game once with JT against my KK... he flopped top pair, called my all-in and hit two-pair by the river. And a few hands later, he picked up bloody KK against me and broke me again... But he seems to take his wins and losses equally well, so good luck to him.

Hectorjelly

Hes a nice guy

Frankygolucky

Discussion is far too academic. This is live play right.Take time too study Your opponent on flop.He will tell ya if he is own a draw or made hand. Smell Him out and let that direct Your action.

DapperGent

Frankygolucky wrote:

This is live play right.Take time too study Your opponent on flop.He will tell ya if he is own a draw or made hand. Smell Him out and let that direct Your action.

Seriously? They do this? That's totally sound.

Everyone remind me to engage my opponent in conversation next time I'm in a crucial hand. If he won't talk to me, tell me to stare at him for ages.

Lafortezza

DeVore wrote:

Frank Hunt? Ex-boxer, decent fella? He won a big tournie recently (the 270 I think) but some of his calls are sometimes unfathomable, if its the same fella...
DeV.

Nope its the other Frank, wears a suit, very nice and pleasant guy, always seems a little unsure of what to bet/call/etc, even when he's holding the absolute stone cold macadamias.

careca

lafortezza wrote:

Nope its the other Frank, wears a suit, very nice and pleasant guy, always seems a little unsure of what to bet/call/etc, even when he's holding the absolute stone cold macadamias.

He is a nice fellow. I don't think he's the most seasoned player in there and I think he is very loose. Not particularly a gambler just "seems a little unsure". Still, he pays his money and takes his chance.