Special Needs Assistants - Reductions in 1/3 of schools

matt-dublin

How can the government facilitate this abhorrent change in a critical learning environment. its an absolute disgrace.

Talking about adding more than 1700 SNAs to mainstream education next year but schools losing more than two thirds of their resources from next term.

The minister for education blatantly avoided the question about reduction in schools and nearly sounded like donald trump at one point on newstalk yesterday.

Talking about reallocating the resources to other schools within a 45km radius but not talking about those who don't want to move. In all likelihood they won't be offered redundancy from the department as there's another job available they can take.

in johnstown boys school they're reducing the ratio from 1:4 to like 1:14 which means that each child will get less than 30 minutes per day with an SNA to support their development and learning. Putting them at a huge disadvantage and likely leaving them in a very challenging position when they move to secondary education. That's even assuming that SNAs time will be split evenly when in all likelihood there's several children required extended support or full time support thus possibly reducing some children's time to absolutely zero minutes!

how can we prevent this from happening as it seems the minister doesn't appear to care or was fully unprepared for this excel spreadsheet exercise!

EmmetSpiceland

The inclusion model was brought in without too much support for schools. Removing SNAs, under the guise of redeployment seems, monumentally, counterintuitive.

This will have a massive impact on kids who need the assistance and the kids whose lessons will be impacted due to a lack of in-classroom support.

We need more SNAs, not fewer. 1 per classroom, at a minimum, would be ideal. They are paid buttons so I don’t see what this round of cuts is hoping to achieve, savings-wise.

matt-dublin

its not going to achieve anything, its someone sitting in the NCSE playing with numbers on a spreadsheet.

you raise a good point there on the children who don't need an SNA and how they will be affected by disruption in the classroom. I hadn't even thought about that!

beggars_bush

Opening special units means extra SNAs needed so they'll cut them elsewhere

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124242713#Comment_124242713

Why not just hire new ones to replace the ones being moved into the new units? Again, they don’t cost much and provide an invaluable service to the school.

matt-dublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124242713#Comment_124242713

also defeats what the original requirement was. to bring more children into mainstream education which is clearly better for their development for those who are capable.

matt-dublin

Great news, the review has been paused!

beggars_bush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124242730#Comment_124242730

But now they're using the blended model of time in the unit and time in mainstream

Many of those units are landed onto schools with no consultation

For Petes Sake

Genuinely can't remember the last time I saw an issue blow up in the faces of the government like this one has. Well done to all who fought hard.

The government must be completely asleep at the wheel. They should know that doing something that significantly impacts vulnerable children was only going to invoke one reaction.

There are over 18,000 children waiting longer than 6 months for an assessment of needs, for example. 18,000 breaches of the law.

The reason why the government tried to pull a fast one on this is because the media have paid very little attention to it because it doesn't get the same level of clicks like homelessness does.

The amount of people that are impacted children's disability issues is quite a big chunk of the electorate. The government have learned that big time today.

Mrs OBumble

SNAs should be abolished. Every person working with children should be a qualified, registered professional.

For Petes Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124244672#Comment_124244672

SNA's are qualified professionals.

elperello

It would make more sense to offer courses to the current SNAs to upskill them rather than abolish and start again.

KaneToad

Are SNAs not assigned based on needs of the child, rather than size of the schools.

When the child leaves the school the SNA support should also be unnecessary?

For Petes Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124244742#Comment_124244742

Nah, why do that when you can just be cruel to vulnerable children.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124244720#Comment_124244720

There is no profession where a Level 5 course that you can do online in 12 weeks counts as qualified.

Sunrise_Sunset

Many SNA's have level 8 degrees and have chosen to step back from other careers. Every year approximately 1,500 SNA's complete The National Training Programme for SNA's which is a diploma accreditation in Inclusive School Support, up until last year which was awarded from the UCD School of Education.

I have some friends who work in schools, both teachers and SNA's. A bigger problem right now, I've been told, is with teachers. There are many people teaching mainstream classes who are not qualified teachers. They got a teaching council number to tie them over for a couple of years work, but have no intention of completing or even beginning their teacher training.

Cluedo Monopoly

So the do-nothing government actually do something, with very little clarity, and then immediately roll back because of one day of bad press. That's our political system in a nutshell.

davetherave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124244752#Comment_124244752

Yeah, I'm reading this as a review and reallocation, rather than a cut of total SNA numbers? The number of classroom teachers is based on the number of pupils in a school, if a school looses a number of children then they lose a teacher. Would this not be the same. The role is very defined, they are not there for education or tuition, they are there to support the care needs of the student, and to assist mainstream/S.E.T teachers to ensure the student can access education.

MarkR

This whole thing was absolute nonsense. According to the model the review was under, SNAs are only there for toileting and medical needs. Movement breaks. Nope. Helping a child who was sent in to school in dirty clothes and no breakfast. Not their problem. Child who still hasn't had an assessment but can't function in the class without help. Not their problem. Child who has had an assessment, but they won't offer a diagnosis for another year, to see what happens. No need for help there.

That leads loads of free time, and we can't have idle people.

Class of 30, and one child has an issue that isn't toileting or medical, either the Special Education Teacher assigned to that child has to come from other duties to help, or the teacher stops class and deals with the child. So the other 29 kids just put their heads down I guess?

Absolutely bizarre. It's like someone saw the proposal, knew how bad the specifics of it were, and said feck it, let it burn.

Oh, and in regard to qualfications, just because you can be a SNA with level 5, does not mean people who are SNAs are not qualified.

Floppybits

As we have seen again and again from this government they target the most vulnerable in our society. God forbid they get their own house in order and target the waste in all government departments and maybe if the cut back on millions they give away without a care in the world but have no problem hitting the most vulnerable or people that do need help

I do hope but probably wasted that people's eyes are opened to how FF and FG do not care about the people of this country unless you have money or are one of their cronys. Before anyone comes back the opposition are worse and because the opposition are so back it enables FG and FF to behave like this.

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124244672#Comment_124244672

I've read some clangers from you over the years, but this probably tops the lot - an astonishing display of ignorance.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124242725#Comment_124242725

They can not get enough of them, both my boys go to special needs schools and they don't have enough, there is posters at the entrance advertising for positions including SNA's, subs, bus escorts but they can't fill them.

The pay rate definitely needs to be looked at to attract people in, a shade over min. wage for that job is disgraceful.

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124244752#Comment_124244752

I believe so. SNA's are allocated to individual children based on need.

Headline says 1/3rd of schools had a reduction. What proportion of schools had an increase? Could be up to 2/3rds?

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058432798/special-needs-assistants-reductions-in-1-3-of-schools

Are you confusing SNAs with learning support/resource teachers? SNA's are not teaching staff - there is no ratio. They are allocated to individual kids based on need.

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124244720#Comment_124244720

SNA's are not teachers. They are para-professionals.

For Petes Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124246009#Comment_124246009

Correct, they're Special Needs Assistants

For Petes Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124244881#Comment_124244881

You said they needed a qualification. A level 5 is a qualification.

What do you do with all of those vulnerable children in your scenario?

It's an unhealthy level of cruelty being displayed by you, here.

For Petes Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124245053#Comment_124245053

In fairness, this was an absolutely shocking lack of ability to read the room.

This has been bubbling under the surface. SNAs and advocates have been warning them about this for months.

Necro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124245969#Comment_124245969

Same with the whole childcare sector tbh (though that's a different topic). Terrible pay and childcare providers charging huge fees.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124246028#Comment_124246028

That's this governments special gift, a complete lack of ability to read the room or is it that they don't give a f**k because the opposition are worse.

matt-dublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124244881#Comment_124244881

network engineer, project manager, finance admin, graphic and web designers, healthcare support, palliative support…. should i continue?