Heat Loss Survey Results - Where to next

pigtail33

Hi,

I bought a new-build house in an estate 11 years ago, that had a BER rating of A2 at the time. I always found it hard to heat the house, especially the north-facing kitchen, and I had a heat loss survey done two years ago. The company who did the survey said there were no major issues found and I did some of the easy to fix jobs, like adding insulation into the gaps around the gas pipes, caulking around the window seals etc. but didn't get any other work done. When the weather gets very cold, like it is now, my kitchen is pretty much unusable. I checked the temperature this morning, before the heat came in, and it was only 11.5°C. After the heat had been on for two hours, the temperature hadn't even reached 15°C and it starts to drop once the heat is turned off. The downstairs thermostat is in the south facing sitting room, so the heat turns off once that room has heated up.

I've attached a few of the thermal images from the kitchen, but there were similar issues around all the windows/skirting/ceiling joints etc. in the rest of the house and I'm not really sure what I need to do, or what type of company to contact to resolve the issues. It's an L-shaped kitchen with a lean-to roof extension. I'm assuming there is little to no insulation in the roof of the extension, so maybe that's a good place to start?

Any advice on what I should do next would be welcome.

blackbox

What type of heating do you use?

pigtail33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124120198#Comment_124120198

I have a gas boiler.

blackbox

Radiators or underfloor?

pigtail33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124120217#Comment_124120217

Radiators

MicktheMan

Looks to me to likely be an air tightness issue.

What was the air tightness test result/figure?

pigtail33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124120299#Comment_124120299

I don't think I ever got a result like that from the thermal imaging, just a report with images, like I attached.

MicktheMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124120307#Comment_124120307

I'm confused, was there a blower door running (large fan in front or back door) during the survey?

If there was then the surveyor should have calculated the air tightness figure and noted it in the report.

If not then this wasn't a proper heat loss survey at all.

blackbox

Even if it's not A2 and there are issues the radiators should be easily able to get the house warm albeit at a cost.

Are your radiators getting properly hot?

pigtail33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124120320#Comment_124120320

Yep, he attached a big fan to the front door during the survey, then moved it to the back door to scan the front door.

I'll check the report again but I don't ever remember seeing an air tightness result.

pigtail33

Getting a plumber to check the rads was also on my list. The one in the kitchen does get hot in the centre, but even after an hour, each side is about 10° cooler.

I leave the door from the hall into the kitchen closed over night and when I open it the next morning, you'd swear a window had been left open.

cstair90

Seems like the issue is likely air tightness and uneven radiator performance. I recommend getting a proper air tightness test to pinpoint leaks, and checking your radiator system for airlocks or imbalances. Insulating the roof of your extension and addressing thermal bridging around windows and joints should also help with the heat loss.

pjdarcy

Have you considered adding an individual thermostat to each radiator? Also, seal around the window frames, light fixtures and skirting boards to prevent draughts. I had this guy seal all of the leaks in my place last year.

https://www.doylesmasticapplications.ie/

Buffman

Hi OP, do you know if the kitchen heating was upgraded when the extension was done, extra or bigger rad, or is it still as original 'new build' set up?

Was that A2 BER done before or after the extension being done?

Also, does the the extractor fan have an open or covered vent on the outside wall?

youtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124121838#Comment_124121838

Radiator TRVs are really only useful if the radiators are 'overperforming', i.e. they throttle the flow to the radiator to stop the room from overheating. Don't think they will be of any use in this instance as it looks like the existing radiator is underperforming and/or there is excessive heat loss from the room.

pigtail33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124121838#Comment_124121838

I got a quote for adding TRVs a good few years ago, but I just didn't think it was worth it, I might have to look into it again though.

I had a window company out two years ago, and they resealed around the window frames on the outside with silicone and added caulk on the inside. A lot of the caulk has since cracked, so there's air coming in again.

Thanks for the recommendation, I really don't know where to look to get this type of work done.

pigtail33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124121848#Comment_124121848

The 'extension' was part of the house when it was built. I am getting the dimensions of the room checked today, to see if the rad is the right size for the room and then get a plumber in to check the heating and replace the rad in the kitchen, if required. So the BER was on the original house, with the 'extension'. Houses in my estate have since sold and the BER is now down to a B2 though.

The extractor fan just has a grid vent on the outside. I did take the 'chimney' cover off after the thermal imaging survey and filled in all the gaps with wool insulation, I'm not sure if it made any difference though.

brokenbad

Did you ask any of your neighbours if they have the same issue in their kitchens?

mirrormatrix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124120320#Comment_124120320

Just to add - I got a heat loss survey with blower door done as well with a reputable and very well reviewed company. No mention of air tightness was ever made and nothing appeared in teh report, so I don't think you are necessarily correct in saying that 'proper' heat loss surveys should include air tightness figures.

pigtail33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124122699#Comment_124122699

Yes, they all say their kitchen is cold, but I'm not sure they are as bad as mine. A few of them got the builder back after moving in (10+ years ago now) and they put expanding foam around a few areas and others have done work themselves.

My nextdoor neighbours (attached), have been away for the last three weeks, and I assume have not had any heat on, which I don't think has helped either.

dockysher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058430708/heat-loss-survey-results-where-to-next

Had the house solar panels installed when you bought it? Cause with a gas boiler no way it was an A2 rating.

B1 at very best

pigtail33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124124194#Comment_124124194

Yep, I have hot water solar panels.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124122905#Comment_124122905

You have a north facing single storey lean to roof extension outside of the main envelope of the house with at least two external walls and also doesn't have the rad placed within? That's always going to be a prime candidate for heat loss regardless of air tightness.

Would be investigating improving insulation in roof space and possibility of pumping the walls if cavity. In the short term a good old fashioned lined curtain across that space when not used and an independent heater when it is.

Buffman

@pigtail33, my first thought was if the kitchen is only getting to 15°C and then the heat is getting shut off by the thermostat in another room, then it's never going to get warm enough to be comfortable in the first place, so no wonder it's Baltic in cold weather.

So definitely getting the rad size checked for the room size is a good starting point.

Personally I'd also look at relocating that 'downstairs zone' thermostat to the colder kitchen to help get it up to a more comfortable temperature, and fit a local TRV on the sitting room rad to give it local temp control which you can set as required.

In relation to the extraction fan, if there's no backdraft protection it can allow outside air to get inside when it's not in use.

I used to have an unprotected one that when the wind blew a certain direction it was like having a window open. I fitted something like the below and it massively helped keep the draft out.

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/manrose-flap-vent-white-100mm-x-100mm/18561

dockysher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124124367#Comment_124124367

How many? Still find it impossible thats an a2 rating. Even with solar thermal panels, these only give small jump up in ratings. B1 would be very best.

Obviously wanted houses to sell easier and for more.

pigtail33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124124449#Comment_124124449

Correct, there is no rad in the 'extension' part, just one fairly large rad on the opposite side of the kitchen.

At least three other houses in the estate got their walls pumped about 2 years ago, even though there should be insulation there already. I looked into it at the time, but after I got the thermal imaging done, they said that apart from two areas, the wall insulation should be adequate. One of those areas is below the lean-to roof and the other is in a bay window at the front of the house. I haven't been talking to anyone who had their walls pumped to see if it made any difference. Definitely something to look into.

pigtail33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124124476#Comment_124124476

I do think the thermostat should have been put in the hall, rather than the sitting room. The houses facing the opposite direction have their thermostat in the same room, and possibly have the opposite problem to me.

I will check the external extractor fan and see if it can be easily changed. The other vents in the house are air bricks (I think they're called) and I've have cowls fitted on the outside to try to reduce the wind blowing through the house.

pigtail33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124124516#Comment_124124516

There are two decent sized solar panels on the front roof. I do think the BERs were very random, although it is over 11 years ago. My house got an A2 but identical houses on the same road were only given a B1 and I think some in a slightly later phase were B2.

gandalfio

First thing I'd be doing is moving the stat. It shouldn't be in the warmest room.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124124820#Comment_124124820

That's the main issue imo, ideally the/a rad should have been placed in the extension, you always want to heat the coldest part of the room first.

The heat from the existing rad is only going as far as where it meets the curtain of cold air from the extension, drops down and returns to the rad, so the extension barely heats. You could try a ceiling mounted fan to try and push the air around the room a bit more.

Another thought is if you have a rad on the upstairs wall which the lean to adjoins, is to T off that through the wall into and down into the extension and install a rad there.

MicktheMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124122711#Comment_124122711

I'm confused. If 'no mention of air tightness was ever made and nothing appeared in the report' then what were they using the blower door for?