What of this strange case of a farmer and his wife?

tea and coffee

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/the-crucifix-the-marriage-cert-and-the-ploughing-tetchy-exchanges-at-inquest-into-death-of-offaly-farmer-joseph-grogan/a72720899.html

And

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2025/07/04/cause-of-death-of-offaly-farmer-who-died-day-after-he-married-unknown-due-to-embalming/

Is it just a case of disgruntled relatives? Or was the marriage the day before he died a sham?

sbs2010

Just read the story on RTE website.

It all seems very dodgy. Especially the rush to have the body embalmed.

No evidence from the registry office mentioned, that I saw. That would be important- what sort of shape was he in at the wedding?

Bellbottoms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123606515#Comment_123606515

Bit far fetched no, you need to register a marriage 12 weeks before the event.

2smiggy

The dramatic loss of weight should have had alarm bells ringing at the very least.

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123606515#Comment_123606515

Not too good I reckon,he died the following day and had lost a lot of weight.was there a wedding album I wonder?

Oscar_Madison

Very strange- one could hold a certain opinion in relation to this case alright, but proving it might very difficult. It up to any surviving relatives to report if they feel something is amiss

One eyed Jack

Or was the marriage the day before he died a sham?

The fact that he died the day after he was married could indicate that contrary to the solicitors assertion, the marriage had indeed been consummated, albeit considering his condition at the time, with great difficulty.

It’s more a case of where there’s a will, there’s relatives.

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123606782#Comment_123606782

Or it could be just a vulnerable person being taken advantage of.Btw does anybody know was there a will made?or does the new wife inherit automatically?

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123606828#Comment_123606828

A marriage invalidates any previously existing will, unless the extant will is made with "in contemplation of that marriage or civil partnership" and specified as such via codicil.

In the absence of a new will post-marriage, all assets pass to the surviving spouse upon the death of the other.

Deeec

Doesnt sound great that she never told anyone they were getting married. Its not clear whether the deceased cousins and neighbours knew he was even in a supposed relationship with this woman at all. She's alot younger than him so the relationship does appear a little odd and given that the land is hosting the ploughing she has a lot to gain. It does seem she really landed on her feet.

It is also odd that the undertaker took the body so fast for embalming.

Now it could be a case that he knew he was dying ( despite what doctors said) and wanted to leave his assets to this woman and a quick wedding was arranged so inheritance tax would be avoided.

I think the relatives are right to question this. Doctors say he wasn't dying and was responding well to treatment.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123606828#Comment_123606828

I tried not to read too much into the fact that he had known his wife since she was 16 and he was 40 😒

It would seem there was a will made as the article refers to the fact that the National Ploughing Championships will return to the same stretch of land hosted now by his wife:

The National Ploughing Championships, the largest outdoor event in Europe, was hosted on Mr Grogan’s lands between 2016 and 2018.This year, the Ploughing will return to the same stretch of land for three days from September 16, hosted now by the late Mr Grogan’s wife, Lisa Flaherty-Grogan.

Escapees

I would have thought the undertaker should be investigated here as an official (doctor or coroner I think) generally needs to first sign off on the cause of death before a body is moved...

Large bottle small glass

Country is full of single men worth fortunes on paper with a line of relatives waiting for a pay day and or a friend/neighbour "minding them" for various reasons.

The deceased here was wealthy, lots of land, frugal live lived.

I wouldn't be surprised if new cars, extensions, nice holidays were already planned prior to his nuptials.

Local to me growing up there was three such men, all extremely frugal. They dug up one of them, he was born outside marriage, to prove his parentage.

There was very little left in that particular estate after the legal feeding frenzy.

The richest of the three gave all his land to a relative who had looked after him for over twenty. He's not mid 40s, single and you would think on seeing him poor.

It just keeps on happening.

It'll make for an interesting case in the four courts or wherever it's set down

Rubberchikken

I thought it odd to be taken to undertakers fir embalming. Was there any doctor involved to call death? Did undertaker not question anything?

All very strange but interesting.

My name is URL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123607229#Comment_123607229

If he had S4 cancer and was receiving treatment or under a GPs care at the time; it's unlikely that a doc/coroner would even be called out to the scene unless something looked suspicious.

And yeah, getting married the day before does seem suspicious

HildaOgdenx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123607544#Comment_123607544

According to the article, there was a doctor called.

Dr A Ben Kato, a GP with Midoc, the Midlands out-of-hours service, gave evidence of pronouncing Mr Grogan dead after calling to his house and finding no clinical sign of life. He had never met Joseph Grogan before.

Dr Kato said he reported the death into the system whereby it would go back to his own GP. He also said he had not given anyone authority to move the body from the house and he would not be able to give an opinion as to the cause of death

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123606860#Comment_123606860

IN the IT article she states she was with Joe for the last 16 years while also in another relationship,there was also 3 children but Grogan was father of none.

TThere Is no suggestion from either side that I can see that gGrogan and Oflaherty had a relationship when she was 16 and he was 40.

I expect it all to come out on yhe high court in due course.

Dial Hard

This entire thing should be raising a lot of official eyebrows. She claims they were in a relationship for years, yet admits that she had a long-term boyfriend for much of that time, and none of her three children are Grogan's.

hamburgham

I read that she also has a partner, separate to the farmer. Relatives are dead right to question it.

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123607544#Comment_123607544

Another odd thing is that his current GP had never seen him and he never attended the practice and she never prescribed for him.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123607585#Comment_123607585

TThere Is no suggestion from either side that I can see that gGrogan and Oflaherty had a relationship when she was 16 and he was 40.

If you only read the IT article in the opening post, it's not there, but the Independent article (behind a paywall to be fair), it's there -

Ms Flaherty-Grogan had stepped into the witness box after lunch. Dressed in a white cardigan, black top and jeans, she sat facing the coroner, Raymond Mahon. She had been in a relationship with Mr Grogan since she was 16, she told the court.

Under cross-examination by Mr Tansey, Ms Flaherty-Grogan acknowledged she had been in another relationship for about six years up to 2020.

The inquest heard paramedics wanted to bring Mr Grogan to hospital, but he did not want to go as he was dying and he wanted to die at home.

She agreed that her late husband was a generous man, who had been very good to her children.

“None of them are his?” asked Mr Tansey at one point.

Ms Flaherty-Grogan confirmed that her husband was not their father.

Addressing the witness on a separate matter, Mr Tansey said the late Mr Grogan had been in a previous relationship for 24 years.

“The relationship ended when she arranged for a pre-marriage course,” he added.

Ms Flaherty-Grogan disagreed. “It ended for a different reason,” she said.

As the afternoon wore on, the tetchy exchanges between Mr Tansey and Ms Flaherty-Grogan continued.

I expect it all to come out on yhe high court in due course.

That's what Mr. Tansey said…

When the inquest opened previously in May before being adjourned, there was a reference made by Mr Tansey to the deceased’s “would-be” marriage to Lisa Flaherty the day before he died.

Yesterday, a marriage certificate was handed into the court by Mr Byrne on behalf of his client, but not without comment from Mr Tansey.

“I have no difficulty with a certificate being handed in. But as to the legality, that is a matter that will fall to the High Court in due course,” he said.

“That will be another day’s work in another court.”

The crucifix, the marriage cert and the Ploughing – tetchy exchanges at inquest into death of Offaly farmer Joseph Grogan | Irish Independent

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123607688#Comment_123607688

If true, that's actually one of the few things that isn't strange.

The 1922 Committee

GP practice had just been handed over to new Doctor

Farmer was eccentric all his adult life.

A witness to the marriage hasn't spoken.

Aurelian

Surely the state official who carried out the marriage could be located.

All the details of this case are strange.

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123607544#Comment_123607544

Depends what cancer it is, it being described as stage 4 is to do with the distribution of the cancer e.g. nodal/extra nodal, bone involvement etc, but does not necessarily mean it would not respond well to treatment. The article just specifies non hodgkins lymphoma, in reality that category encompasses roughly 80 types of lymphomas, some of which are more aggressive than others. I'm not certain were the law stands on deaths at home of people with known serious illnesses.

Escapees

I'd say the National Ploughing event organisers have had to be very amicable in their dealings with her in order to not rock the boat and lose their venue... A bit like Michael Martin with Donald Trump...

Trigger

Mod: Please do not comment on the peoples appearance on this thread! Posts deleted.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123607976#Comment_123607976

You would expect so - however I’m not sure the coroners court is where this aspect will be explored- but given how there is talk of the “High Court” (see quote below from same Indo Article as above, ) it looks like there could well be an extended legal case pending, once the coroners court concludes its investigation.

“At the heart of the acrimony between the parties is a claim that Mr Grogan married Ms Flaherty-Grogan (51) the day before he died, and that Mr Grogan’s cousins are attempting to use the inquest to question the validity of that marriage.Indeed, Mr Tansey, who is representing three of Mr Grogan’s cousins, warned that the fallout over Mr Grogan’s “would-be marriage” could end up in the High Court.Over the course of several hours, Ms Flaherty-Grogan, a special needs assistant with three children, underwent cross-examination about her relationship with the deceased and the lead-up to his death.The witness had “engaged in a campaign designed to isolate Joe from his family,” Mr Tansey claimed.Moreover, none of them had any “inkling” that Mr Grogan was in a romantic relationship with the witness. They also had no knowledge of the marriage.“Isn’t that extraordinary?” Mr Tansey said to the court.“

HildaOgdenx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123607070#Comment_123607070

Yes, I find that strange too.

I know of a case where a post mortem was required - not that unusual really - and it was a very ordinary case. The gardai escorted the undertaker to the hospital as the body was being brought for post mortem. Nothing untoward, just, I presume, a procedure that was being followed.

It's yet another strange aspect of this story. I presume undertakers are in general, very familiar with all sorts of procedures and processes, in the course of their work.

In this case the gardai were only called upon after the embalming had taken place, it seems.

kabakuyu

We had a death in our extended family recently,Garda attended hospital where death occurred and spoke to nearest relatives,said it was standard procedure,nothing unusual about death,it was cancer related

cal naughton

It's also strange that embalming took place in Longford when it could have been done in Tuallmore.