Alan Dershowitz on Newstalk

Deise Vu

I’m not sure if this has been discussed anywhere else but I think it definitely deserves a thread of its own in terms of how warped American views are and the dangers we face in taking a moral stance on Israel.

If you missed it, Mr Dershowitz was being interviewed by Ciara Kelly on the P Diddy verdict. When the interview was wrapping up, he asked could he ask Ciara and the Irish people a question. Clearly this is something that has the geriatric hugely worked up because he went off on an extraordinary rant.

He wanted to know why Ireland was the most anti semitic country in Europe, why Irish singers were chanting kill the IDF (!!’) and why we didn’t fight the Nazis in WW2.

The rant and the twisted truth was relentless. Ciara put him straight on the kill the IDF source but was a bit gentle I thought on the rest. She basically said we are seeing the bodies and the emaciated kids and we sympathize we anyone suffering from colonialism.

I thought she could have pointed out that the US wasn’t too bothered about WW2 until they got attacked two years in, that we could hardly be expected to join a fight on the side of a country that occupied us, stole our land and starved us not to long previously and was still occupying a quarter of our country in a situation not too dissimilar to what we are currently witnessing in Gaza.

She could also have mentioned the massacre of Palestinian rescue workers the IDF tried to cover up and the slaughter of people at so called aid stations and that the IDF has also murdered three hostages they were supposed to be rescuing in as clear a demonstration as can be of their observance of the Geneva convention.

The scary thing is Dersowitz is stating what is a widely accepted view in the States. Israeli propaganda is working and we are going to get blowback at some stage from the Jewish lobby. We clearly should not alter our position but we badly need ti get our message out and get more vocal allies.

scrabtom

Should be the last time a clown like that is invited on Irish radio

Deise Vu

The guys a lawyer, he is supposed to deal in facts not hyperbole (the most anti-Semitic country in Europe) and propaganda.

Then again, him and the rest of the “dream team” weren’t too concerned about facts in the OJ case. Far rasier to throw accusations of racism around.

expectationlost

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058418679/alan-dershowitz-on-newstalk

Did he accuse Kneecap of saying Kill the IDF?

Seth Brundle

Mod: this

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058418679/alan-dershowitz-on-newstalk

I’m not sure if this has been discussed anywhere else but I think it definitely deserves a thread of its own in terms of how warped American views are and the dangers we face in taking a moral stance on Israel.

Mod: there are enough threads on the warped views coming from America and also on the genocide in Gaza by the Israeli government. I'm struggling to see a reason why this one should remain open - I'll leave it for a while and see then.

Francis McM

Dershowitz is not alone in thinking Ireland is the most anti-semetic country in Europe. Lots of other people around Europe and further afield think it as well, given our history over the past 100 years, and recent media coverage here in Ireland etc.

Closer to home, a former Irish justice minister has also said " he thinks Ireland has seen an explosion in antisemitism after October 7 and is the most anti-Israel country in Europe”.

https://www.thejc.com/news/politics/ireland-is-most-anti-israel-country-in-europe-with-echoes-of-1930s-germany-former-justice-minister-claims-amqfh7xo

He should know, and he is brave for being so honest. If I wanted a true picture on how American blacks (or some other minority) were treated in America (or wherever), I would ask some members of the black / minority community there.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123604717#Comment_123604717

I see that you refer to Alan Shatter. A sad individual.

I find it a bit strange that he has never publicly railed against his father who appears to have fled from England to Ireland as a way of dodging conscription rather than manning up and fighting Hitler.

As for Lord Pervoshitz of the Lolita Express - least said soonest mended.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123604717#Comment_123604717

Surely you'd ask a cross section of society and not just one millionaire if you want a true picture?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123604795#Comment_123604795

You ask members of the community in question, and try to get their exact opinion. However while most minorites in different countries in the world seem to have increased this past 100 years, the size of the Jewish community in Ireland seems to have decreased?

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123604843#Comment_123604843

Alan Shatter is not disadvantaged, he's a millionaire who's been elected to Government.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123604843#Comment_123604843

Judaism is a religion. Religion is declining in Ireland, and throughout the West.

Owing to immigration from various protestant countries, Protestant numbers have increased in recent times from a fairly low base. So have the numbers of Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus.

Catholic and Jewish numbers/percentages have decreased - Jews in particular owing a concerted effort to get them to move to Israel, but without Jews immigrating into Ireland, their numbers will continue to decrease, along with the proportion of Catholics as people give up attending religious ceremonies.

4Ad

I'm not a fan of Ciara Kelly but she handled that clown very well..

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123604846#Comment_123604846

You did not read what he said. For example, his comments about the adoption of “the Hamas narrative” by sections of Irish society.

Shatter also blasted "the tough rhetoric against Israel on the one hand and closer ties with Iran on the other. “At no stage have they ever criticised Iran for its endemic – at government level – antisemitic pronouncements and its commitment to Israel's destruction” as well as funding for terrorist groups Hamas Hezbollah and the Houthis."

He also made the point about people “proudly marching in Dublin with Hamas and Hezbollah and Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine flags, all chanting ‘from the river to the sea’ and calling for global Intifada”.

Annascaul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123604717#Comment_123604717

I am not Irish, but a regular visitor to Ireland. The large amount of Palestinian flags looks very anti-semitic to people like myself, considering that it was in the current conflict Palestinian terrorists who attacked the Israelis and took people hostage and raped women. Where I come from any form of anti-semitism is totally frowned upon given the fact that my country once collaborated with Nazi Germany which sent millions and millions of Jews to their death in the worst way imaginable.

Even worse when I see young women participating in some protest organization, waving Palestinian flags, whilst young Israeli women were getting raped several times by Palestinian terrorists.

And worst, one doesn't seem to be allowed to speak one's opinion and is met with total intolerance.

This is a really scary development in Ireland to see by a regular visitor to Dublin. In countries like Benelux, France or Germany this would also on the political left be unacceptable, and only to be found on the far fringes of the far left minority.

One should also think the Jews are the closest religious relatives to the Christians, so why take sides with terrorist Palestinians?

Have the Jews offended the Irish in some way I don't know? Many Jews found sanctuary in Ireland during WW2 as well.

So in the end, I am really at odds here about Ireland, and not only myself but many other foreigners or visitors to Dublin.

I don't want to argue here with anybody, however by international standards certain questions do come up.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605728#Comment_123605728

So you're fine with the ongoing genocide that is occurring to the Palestinian people?

Do you believe that the retaliation to the terrible Oct 7th attack is justified with over 50,000 Palestinian children killed or injured?

Being pro-Palestine is not anti semitic and I find it very odd that you're being more harsh towards women for showing their support.

CatFromHue

What's going on over there is terrible and Dershowitz was talking rubbish but there is a point in there somewhere when you look at our response.

Members of PBP celebrated the Oct 7 attack, Richard Boyd Barrett called for an intifada, and there was that strange encounter between a couple of their members and a Jewish guy in a restaurant where he ended up getting spat at.

There's the terrorist flags at multiple protest events.

Michael D getting into a silly spat with an Israeli politician over what turned out to be the Iranians putting a letter he sent to them on twitter but he blamed Israel for it. What happened at the Holocaust memorial when Jews were turfed out and he also said the Holocaust was only an attempted genocide, he's previously called it a genocide on multiple occasions.

Paddy Cosgrave's tweets. Whether we like it or not he is a famous Irish man.

All these things add up.

Annascaul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123606178#Comment_123606178

I am fine with the Israeli response. Please note that the Palestinian terrorists are still holding Israeli hostage to this day. Israel shall continue as long as they are freed. So, yes, I am fine with that.

I could ask you the question, so you're fine with Palestinians holding Israelis as hostages and doing god knows what to them?

By taking sides with Palestinians I also see Ireland and the Irish in a very bad and antisemitic light, especially as the country is supposed to be neutral and their military is known for peacekeeping missions.

Ireland and the Irish should not support people who voted for a terrorist regime which is taking hostages and then blame the victims for defending and doing everything to free the hostages.

I am also fine with the Israeli attacks on Iran, - one of the most repressive and autocratic regimes clearly on course of building a nuclear bomb. The Israeli are doing the job for the rest of the free world on this.

I have lot's of respect for the IDF as well as the Mossad.

I am aware you may not share this opinion. This is a politics forum, and politics is naturally a very difficult subject.

I often feel unwell by the large amount of Palestinian flags in Ireland, - I find it scary. You may not.

Would you have been fine with the US American attacks on Nazi Germany and it's people? I would have.

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123607467#Comment_123607467

When did the people of Gaza vote for Hamas….?

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605728#Comment_123605728

This confusion (or deliberate obtuseness) is pretty common outside Ireland and the Middle East. The Palestinian flag represents the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine, just like the French flag, the Italian flag, the British Union Jack, or the American flag. Flying a nation's flag is not antisemitic. If anything, it exposes the biases and hatreds of others.

The reason Palestine's struggles resonate so strongly in Ireland and especially in Dublin is obvious to most of us. If you're confused, pick up a history book. There's nothing "scary" about our stance on the invasion, and there's certainly nothing "scary" about empathy.

Annascaul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123607733#Comment_123607733

Most continental European countries support Israel strongly, both governments as well as a strong majority of the society, mainly due to historical wrongs, historical guilt and reconciliation efforts especially around the Holocaust or collaborations with Nazi Germany.

For us, the Palestinians are often associated with terrorists, bombs and having a lot of children one can't support and only finding sympathy on the extreme fringes of the very very often militant far left. The leftist terrorist Baader-Meinhof complex in Germany received the military training in one of those Palestinian training camps.

For us in continental Europe the Palestinians were never part of our history, they haven't really contributed to European culture, whilst the Jews did so over centuries, in science, medicine or culture and entertainment, - lot's of actors or film directors who were Jews and managed to flee found new fame in America.

Even more, that many continental Europeans would consider the struggle of Israel and the Jews to have their land in a neighborhood which would deny Israel the right to exist similar to the Irish and their independence struggle against the mighty British empire.

Thus the major surprise, even upsetting feeling of Ireland and their close support for Palestinians, especially as Israel didn't start the recent conflict.

I hope this explains at least the position of things, - even though it may not be your opinion.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123607810#Comment_123607810

You’re clinging to an outdated idea of European support for Israel. That might have held decades ago, but not now. Cities across Europe are seeing massive protests, student occupations, and calls for sanctions. The shift is happening whether you like it or not. Calling support for Palestine a fringe far left thing is lazy. Nurses, teachers, artists, trade unions, even Jewish groups are speaking out. The real fringe now is those still pretending Gaza is about self defence.

And comparing Israel to Ireland’s independence struggle is laughable. Ireland resisted empire. Israel is acting like one. We know the difference because we lived it.

Ireland isn’t the outlier. We were just early and ballsy enough to call it like it is. We see clearly, and we speak plainly. I hope this explains at least the position of things for you.

Annascaul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123607841#Comment_123607841

Not everybody's political opinion is the same.

Continental Europe has a lot of imported antisemitism from immigrants from Arabic countries.

It also sounds a bit fanatic to me the way you're using the word "We" in your last paragraph. I honestly would never want to be part of this "We".

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123607978#Comment_123607978

‘We, the people of Ireland’ is a problem? Yet you casually say ‘for us, the Palestinians are often associated with terrorists’, no hesitation using us there. Funny how that sweeping we only becomes an issue when empathy enters.

Who's us?

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123607978#Comment_123607978

Irish people font have a problem with the religious identity of a people,. I. E. Jew., it's the Israeli attitude of supremacy, and apartheid that's the problem.

Also, to note, Alan Dershowitz represented Jeffrey Epstein. Enough said.

itsacoolday

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123608029#Comment_123608029

Israel only occupies a tiny bit of land in the middle east and are surrounded by Muslim counties, many of whose inhabitants have little or no tolerance of Jews, to put it mildly. In Israel there are many, and an increasing number of Mosques, and some Muslims work there in the Jewish state of Israel as Doctors etc. In Saudi Arabia, a country much much bigger than Israel, the Muslims there will not allow any Christian or Jewish worship whatsoever. So who has the attitude of supremacy and apartheid in the middle East?

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123608188#Comment_123608188

Occupies land illegally

Kermit.de.frog

Surely the government must see that they are toying with the livelihoods of everyone in Ireland given our dependency for jobs and most of our tax revenue on the US. Nothing we do would make a blind bit of difference to Israel or the Palestinians.

Dershowitz is a highly controversial and discredited figure but I would be concerned that he is voicing a very problematic perception of Ireland as a country of jew haters in the US that can do us real damage if we don't start showing a bit of cop on and being delicate with our own interests.

https://worldisraelnews.com/key-us-lawmaker-warns-ireland-of-potential-economic-consequences-for-antisemitic-path-against-israel/

It would only take one tweet from Trump and the government would change it's course lightning fast.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123607467#Comment_123607467

You have your last comparison mixed up I’m afraid, it’s the IDF committing the genocide just as Nazi Germany did.

So if you’re anti genocide then you also are on the side of Palestine.

If you really believe that Israel have done no wrong to the Palestinian people before Oct 7th which led to that horrific terrorist attack then you’re ignoring 70 years of history.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123608188#Comment_123608188

Saudi Arabia, the western allied Saudi Arabia?

Its almost as if democracy and human rights don't matter unless you're trying to build a case to bomb them

Annascaul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123608009#Comment_123608009

"Us" as in continental Europeans who support Israel.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123608211#Comment_123608211

One can agree or disagree with Dershowitz as a person, however a strong support of Palestinians would let any investor think a bit more carefully about investing somewhere.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123608493#Comment_123608493

I am afraid, we would only disagree on this. I don't understand your position, you don't mine. You wouldn't even understand that people like me find those Palestinian flags in Ireland disgusting. If you like them so much, then go ahead, I don't like it.

It's just a political disagreement.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123608513#Comment_123608513

No, I understand your position you’re 100% pro Israel, you’re ok with genocide being committed against a people and are afraid of a flag.