RSA's 'Blood on your hands' Drink Driving ad

electrofrog

Interesting approach RSA have taken as everyone knows that friend who drives home after a night out. One question I have is how legal is it to confiscate someone's car keys if they are intoxicated? I recently had to do exactly that to someone who is known to me and people witnessed it as they were very vocal during the whole thing. Long story short as I knew this person in the cold light of day they knew I was doing them a favour nothing came of it. But say they decided they weren't happy (the next day) I technically stole their car keys even if I was planning to give them back when they sobered up could I have been open to charges? Does anyone know or is the fact you were doing something for the greater good always going to stand to you.

mikeecho

If you take the keys, it's theft. (To permanently or temporarily deprive someone of their property)

How can you prove the following day that the person was drunk ... And even then, that's not reason to steal their property.

Hell.. it's hard enough for the gardai to get a prosecution for drunk driving,with all the technicalities.

Ash.J.Williams

Just let them on

Strumms

it shows the RSA in a poor light… accusing people who are guilty of zero crimes of being potentially complicit in the crimes or potential crimes of others…..

It’s so 2025 though….. where personal responsibility seems about as fashionable as death.

Psychedelic Hedgehog

Years ago, when I was in my early 20's we had a house party at which a good friend of mine turned up with his car and a bottle of vodka of which he demolished over half. I was due to travel very early the next morning so wasn't drinking.

As he lived about ten minutes walk down the road, I took his car keys, walked down to his gaff and posted them through his letterbox.

Coincidentally his housemate fractured her wrist at the same party and I dropped them both down to Beaumont Hospital to get seen to. At 6am my taxi for the airport turns up and mentions that I was a handy number for him as he'd just taken a couple from the hospital to their home around the corner.

Apparently she'd been bandaged up and he was annoyed that some prick had taken his car keys….

He was glad of it once he'd sobered up though :)

electrofrog

In this case the person was so drunk they were having difficulty even starting the car their foot kept slipping of the clutch and the car clunking while they shouted profanities at the car for not starting. It was a case of if they'd managed to start the car they were going straight into a parked car or a wall (or worse) I had to do what I did and as I said I knew them I wouldn't be going around trying to stop total strangers (in Ireland? You'd be the hero nobody wanted)

Cookie_Monster

Its hardly theft, its a social, moral and ethical step to take keys off someone who is clearly pissed and intent on driving home. Sure they could be fine, or they could drive off the road and munt themselves, but more importantly they could crash into some other poor unfortunate and cause serious harm or death.

80sDiesel

NZ

https://youtu.be/CtWirGxV7Q8?si=hufJCEZfOrWOE8Ij

blanchwill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123599751#Comment_123599751

Ridiculous thing to say, I'd have no issues taking keys from a drunk friend or family member who wanted to drive.

timetogo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123599751#Comment_123599751

And hope its not you or one of your family they take out if they crash.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123607959#Comment_123607959

It's actually the definition of theft.

tom traubert

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/50/section/4/enacted/en/html

The definition of theft is far more nuanced than has been suggested in posts nos. 2 and 11 above.

Link above.

Without hesitation I would deprive a drunk person in my circle of their keys temporarily, if I had reasonable cause to believe that they would attempt to drive while drunk.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123609308#Comment_123609308

It's more like the definition of an intervention to prevent a crime being committed.

I've seen a lot of drink driving prosecutions but never one for taking keys from a drunk.

BP_RS3813

How common is drink driving to that level though? If someone only had lets say a single bottle of 4% ish beer then they would hardly be hammered (even for a super lightweight). I wouldn't feel comfortable with them driving and it is wrong for them to do so but its not a 'take their keys' situation (I would 100% if they were bad enough). You would almost certainly be told to f*ck off.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123610560#Comment_123610560

You raise an interesting question.

Proportionality is important so I wouldn't be wading in with an intervention on someone who's had a couple of beers.

I have taken keys and on one occasion with a repeat offender I temporarily disabled his car.

People with a lot of drink on board are potentially violent so you need to be diplomatic and take care for your own safety.

Also you should do your best to make sure the person gets home safely.

delly

While a lot of the talk here is on the taking of keys, I think the ad is more nuanced than just removing them from the chap who is driving. From the moment they go in, his buddy asks him if he wants a drink, already knowing he will likely be driving. Then he declares he will take the quiet road home, so the group as a whole let the evening continue, knowing he will be driving. Essentially, nobody says a word.

It's a fair point, in my opinion, that nobody actually proactively intervenes in advance. Anecdotally, it is proven by this thread, whereby OP is asking about the legal status of taking keys. I think they want people to actually ask the question or something else, but I think most people would view that as being offensive to the other person.

BP_RS3813

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123610884#Comment_123610884

You are correct. However I pointed out in my post - asking/taking off their keys after just 1 bottle would almost certainly generate a conflict and you would to be told to f*ck off.

Whilst heavy drink driving is socially seen as wrong and keys might be taken in advance, 'light' drink driving is still something thats seen as okay - 1 beer/glass of wine etc.

Thats something that needs change, even a single drop needs to be unacceptable.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123611061#Comment_123611061

One drink (eg one bottle of beer or one regular glass of wine) is below the legal limit and therefore perfectly legal to drive. Zero limits will not be possible to enforce.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123609308#Comment_123609308

It's not. You are not trying to 'permanently' deprive them of their keys.

michael-henry-mcivor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123612621#Comment_123612621

Deprive them of the key to life-

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123612638#Comment_123612638

You are doing it for the greater good and you are not gaining anything from it.

Like taking a gun from a mentally unstable person.

alan partridge aha

I have an expensive alcohol tester, if im over the limit I don't drive and if im well under I do. Simples.

You usually know even without the tester if you're fit to drive or not

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123612621#Comment_123612621

Permanently or Temporarily deprive.

WildeWest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123613891#Comment_123613891

Stop digging and read the link as posted in post #12. You don't even need to read all of it, section 1 ought to be enough. If you need more, section 2 will do.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614061#Comment_123614061

Take a strangers keys, and try and justify yourself the following day.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614255#Comment_123614255

I think the majority here aren't talking about taking "strangers keys" you're likely to end up in a bad situation before the next day if you try and do that.

People mean, taking keys from friends or family when they know that they've been drinking, not the random man at the bar you see getting into his car.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123599750#Comment_123599750

In the extreamily unlikley event that one would get charged for something like this, there is a simple out, just ring Joe Duffy and….

Opps, not so simple.

Peregrinus

If you take the car keys of a drunk person to prevent them from driving, I doubt very much that you are dishonestly temporarily depriving them of the keys. And, if it's not dishonest, it's not theft; the requirement for dishonesty appears literally on the first line of the offence provision linked in post #12. You can't miss it.

Even if I'm wrong about this, if you were charged you would have the defence of necessity. The elements of the defence are:

• You committed what would otherwise be a criminal act in order to avoid a real and imminent danger
• There was no other practical way to avoid the danger.
• The harm avoided was greater than the harm caused; your action was reasonable and proportionate

Even apart from all this, there's the fact that even if a complaint were made the authorities would almost certainly decide that a prosecution was not in the public interest. They're running a campaign to persaude people to task responsibility for averting drink driving by others; the last thing they want to do is mount a very dodgy, highly-likely-to-fail, prosecution against someone who does exactly that.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614307#Comment_123614307

When they sober up, unless you're starting over them with the keys , you're depriving them.

Also... Are you aware that when a driver is arrested for drink driving, they are handed back their keys when they are being released, they would have only been in the station for an hour or two.. an absolute max of 3hrs.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614307#Comment_123614307

And what if the driver stated that they were not drunk, and that you took the keys from them?

You have no way to prove that they were drunk to such an extent to render them incapable of operating an mpv in a public place.

But there would be evidence that their keys were stolen.

WildeWest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614255#Comment_123614255

No one has mentioned strangers before now, the OPs states friends. I wouldn't be paying any attention to strangers.