The charisma-free zone that is Micheál Martin

Everlong1

Even by the mediocre standards of Irish politics, Micheál Martin must be one of the dreariest politicians we’ve ever produced. Watching him again today on the RTE Six One news, mumbling and stuttering his way through the issues of the day (does anyone else ever feel the urge to yell SPEAK UP YOU FU*KING HALFWIT when they’re watching him?) I cannot understand how a man with all the drive, determination and charisma of a wet dishcloth could become Taoiseach.

Of course in Ireland the only pre-requisite for being elected TD is to make your name as a pothole fixer and I assume Martin must be good at that kind of nonsense in his constituency. It says volumes for the calibre of the Fianna Fail front bench that this nonentity could become Taoiseach. Hopefully the age we live in now, dominated by social media and the concurrent need to make a good impact quickly, will put an end to mediocrities like him getting to high office, even in Ireland.

Wanderer78

we could always elect a 'charismatic' person such as mcgregor, im sure that government would be some craic!

im no ff supporter, but mm isnt that terribly bad

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058415491/the-charisma-free-zone-that-is-micheal-martin

Yes we could even get as lucky as the USA have with their "social media good impact quickly" pick.

Allinall

Why would having charisma make a person run the country better?

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123526508#Comment_123526508

Yeah cause MM is doing such a great job, in his quiet, unassuming but effective manner, in solving the great national issues of housing, immigration, crime etc.

rob316

I'm no FF supporter but in the last leaders debate he's got more charisma in his pinky finger than MLM and Harris

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123526512#Comment_123526512

way to not answer the question.

FrancieBrady

My problem with MM is not his charisma but the fact that he stands for nothing and has evolved the FF party to also stand for nothing, bending and shaking in whatever direction that help keep their hands on the tiller.
Imagine a FF leader of even a decade ago telling the Irish public to be 'careful' in saying there were two sides in the conflict/war here'?

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123526547#Comment_123526547

Did Fianna Fail ever stand for anything other than the acquistion and retention of power?

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123526516#Comment_123526516

My hat is off to you for watching that debate without falling asleep.

You might not think much of Harris but how anyone could look at him and MM and decide that MM was the better speaker is beyond me. The man makes Father Stone look like Barack Obama in comparison.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123526512#Comment_123526512

So is this really your gripe with him, rather than his lack of charisma?

Strumms

the problem is MM generally tries to please everyone. Or at least look like he is. As opposed to more appropriately just doing the right thing by the country and its citizens. And by trying to please everyone he’s created a monster of a precedent.

Any leadership role I’ve experienced where people start sacrificing the idea of just doing the right thing by the organisation and instead trying to be all things to everyone, including those outside of it…… they and it, falls on their arse… every time, and he’s buying into that toxic strategy.

8mv

Why do you want someone with charisma? I want someone to manage the country - not someone to have a pint with or who will put on a show. The US elected someone with their idea of charisma - i.e. wrestling events - and look at that **** show.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058415491/the-charisma-free-zone-that-is-micheal-martin

Boring politics and boring politicians are a good thing. Look at the UK and USA for examples of why charismatic politicians are bad things.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123527986#Comment_123527986

Not really a fair take tbh.

I get totally what you say but I think that’s a toxic charisma you are talking about, one that appeals and motivates the wrong people.

You do require charisma to get things done. You should as a leader ‘inspire’ party and support especially in a coalition.

I think it is Micheàl’s lack of charisma that is contributing to stopping things getting done. Progress on housing, the health service etc etc. all in dire need of a leader.

mykrodot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123528439#Comment_123528439

I agree with you. Micheal Martin has no charisma but then again in my opinion neither does Simon Harris or the likes of Helen McEntee (ZERO), Norma Foley, James Brown (housing) etc.

So who has charisma? Does Paschal, Darragh O Brien, Jennifer Carroll McNeill, Jack Chambers??

The only one I think had a bit was Richard Bruton (since retired) and Patrick O Donovan because he is narky and sarcastic (so its not a good charisma). In effect none of our lot have charisma, maybe its just not an Irish thing.

If I am to think back to past leaders I think Enda Kenny had a bit, he had that kind of wink in his eye and a country way of talking. I like him.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123528439#Comment_123528439

Finally, someone who gets my point. You would assume that someone who aspires to lead a nation would have a bit of get up and go about them and not come across like a mumbling shy schoolboy at a disco, which is what MM always sounds like to me. You can have charisma and drive and not be a Trumpalike monster, that's just lazy stereotyping.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123528686#Comment_123528686

You might have something there with your observation that "maybe it's not an Irish thing". We still suffer, as a people, from this ridiiculous begrudging attitude that anyone who looks or sounds a bit different, or who has strong opinions about things, is "getting notions" about themselves. Thus the need for politicians to pander to the lowest common denominator and put on an act of "oh I'm just a simple lad who likes me pint and a bit of GAA". Bertie Ahearn mastered that whole thing and won three elections on the back of it.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123526953#Comment_123526953

This is Fianna Fail we're talking about, the party who bankrupted Ireland, not once but TWICE in my lifetime. Doing "the right thing" for the country means nothing to them. Getting in power and staying there by any means necessary is what's most important. Hence the need to be seen to be trying to please everyone. You don't want to be saying anything - much less, God forbid, actually taking any ACTION - that might annoy some interest group or other.

Pauliedragon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058415491/the-charisma-free-zone-that-is-micheal-martin

It's certainly not the constituency thing because I live there and he does F. all here.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123528757#Comment_123528757

I'd agree on this. At one point we had 3 senior ministers here (Micheál, Michael McGrath and Simon Coveney) and I don't think there's a thing any of them have done specifically for their constituency. In one sense that's to be commended (they are national politicians after all) but it would be nice to have gotten some goodies from them over the years.

loyatemu

How many charismatic Taoisigh have there been? Is MM any worse than Kenny, Bruton or Cowen?

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123528876#Comment_123528876

I'd put Enda Kenny in more or less the same category as MM. Bruton and Cowen were marginally better. Personally I thought Leo Varadkar had great presence whatever you might think about his politics. He was young and dynamic and spoke well. The latter two characteristics I would have thought were basic essentials for any politician. I saw Darragh O'Brien speak recently at a conference on sustainable transport and was quite impressed. He spoke loudly and clearly and seemed genuinely enthusiastic about the transport portfolio.

Just to be clear, I wouldn't expect every Irish politician to be a JFK or a Barack Obama, but at the very least to have a bit of get up and go about them and at the very minimum, to be able to SPEAK CLEARLY. MM would put you to sleep trying to listen to him mumbling and droning. Is that too much to ask?

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123528919#Comment_123528919

If youre ranking charisma of those listed taoisigh in order from MM to Enda to Bruton to Cowen to Leo then as charisma increases the quality of Taoiseach decreases (although Cowen is obviously worse than Leo)

CalamariFritti

I dont think I'd want a social media hero tbh but I have to agree with your assessment of Martin. He is 50 shades of beige* bland and he stands for nothing except for staying in power and not rocking any boats and keep going like its grand sure it didnt sink us so far. He has no edge whatsoever, zero vision or ideas or ambition and just goes with the flow singing whatever tune is in the charts atm and appears desperately afraid of making any mistakes or missteps. The ultimate populist weasel.

Hate to say it but it appears the Irish electorate seem quite on-board with that.

*robbed that off the Guardian's description of Keir Starmer, I think it fits Martin even better

SuperBowserWorld

I was watching this video and it kind of sums up FFG/government incumbents and Ireland in general.

I don't care if a leader is charasmatic or not but really, nothing much has changed here in 40/50 years, except we waste 10 times as much money now, getting nowhere. Same old shite, same results, costing loads more money. Kids still can barely speak Irish going into secondary school.

https://youtu.be/-FyU1HVpud4?feature=shared

KaneToad

The role is the Taoiseach of the country - charisma is well down the list of requirements. It's not a popularity contest.

StormForce13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123528734#Comment_123528734

Bit contradictory there, squire.

The FF that "bankrupted Ireland TWICE in your lifetime" was led by two leaders who had bucketloads of that "charisma" thing that appears to make your gusset damp. Heck, they each played a major role in a Tribunal of Investigation. (I refer to Lord Haughey of Kinsealy Towers, and Bertie, the Super—Dub and Digout King.)

You may throw as many rotten tomatoes as you like at MM, but he ain't going to bankrupt the country; in fact the worst thing that you can accuse him of is appointing Bertie's lady friend Celia L to the board of some State Body or other.

Ash.J.Williams

The way things are going our grandkids won't have housing either

mr j tayto

I walked by him a couple of weeks ago and said hello because I thought I knew him from somewhere. I think he's the original Mr Beige. In fairness to him though, he did actually reply to me, but in a "don't attack me" kind of way!!

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123529337#Comment_123529337

Bertie Ahern? Bucketloads of charisma? In what mad f*cking alternative universe are you talking about? In a previous post I talked about Irish politicians having a playbook that went "oh I'm just a simple lad who likes me pint and a bit of GAA". That was the only image Bertie ever cultivated. I wouldn't consider that charismatic unless your understanding of the term is vastly different to mine. And yeah Haughey was a first degree shyster but the economic damage wrought by the '70's FF governments was mostly engineered under Jack Lynch's tenure if memory serves me correctly.