Cumann na MBunScoil

wirelessdude01

Can only come at this from my experience. I organise training twice a week, open to all boys from 3rd onwards. Everyone has an equal chance. If you are a 'star' for the club but don't come out and show your stuff then you aren't under consideration for the squad regardless how good they may think they are. If a 4th class kid is better than a 6th class then the 4th class kid starts. If they are equal then 6th gets initial chance. I would like to think I'm fairly transparent and fair with what I decide but I'm under no illusion that some kids and/or parents have had their noses put out of joint by my decisions but they have to be made.

At the end of the day it is only schools football. Group stages as much as possible are for spreading the gospel with plenty of game time but knockout games are there to be won. Kids want to win, want to be part of a squad and also part of a team. Sometimes life lessons get learnt along the way which are good and part of life's journey.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123478191#Comment_123478191

5th and 6th kids should always get the nod, even over the best 4th class kids. They will get their opportunity in subsequent years. As you said, at the end of the day its only schools football and the longer term benefit is all being part of a team and maintaining a love for the game. The bonds formed on a team with your classmates are worth more than a trophy with some excluded. And in fact the guidelines on primary schools is that its is a 5th and 6th class competition.

BP_RS3813

Balancing kids team competition in any sport at a young age is tough. There really should be a line of 'win at all costs' and 'have fun whilst trying to win' (winning is only a bonus, fun is the priority).

Cumann na MbunScoil should really define what it is and it would avoid threads like this arising.

wirelessdude01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123487213#Comment_123487213

No such mention in the rules and regulations in our leabhair eolas. Resilience is an essential lifeskill. Teaching/showing it to them can be tricky but not doing so teaches them far worse skills.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123487556#Comment_123487556

The GAA guidance on playing at Primary school age is for 5th and 6th. This is in line with the age at which they move from Go games to competitive football

The final stage in the pathway are the Cumann na mBunscol competitions organised at senior class level (5th and 6th classes, P6/P7). These competitive leagues are organised on a match or blitz basis.

Cuman Na mBunscol itself exists outside the GAA however and each county will have different guidance recognising that smaller schools may struggle to field teams without going below 5th. I am certain your guidance would include some statement along the lines of "gametime for all" or something similar though.

Resilience is not taught through exclusion of 11 and 12 year olds who are making an effort to participate. Its concerning that a teacher would appear to believe that.

Patser

Speaking from experience as a coach for local GAA club, and watching the schools team play - You have to be aware of the different goals/approaches to the game.

As a club coach, the GAA ram into you Go Games, getting a keeping everyone involved, developing the squad over time, you train your group of girls from nursery ages hopefully up to minors. Their your team, you want them to develop and the GAA has rules and an ethos in place that everyone should get game time, players get preferential treatment at their age group, so they don't lose out to younger star players getting in ahead of them.

It may not be perfect on the ground, and not all coaches will follow the rules, but the direction from above is there. My team (U13s) lost out in a semi final last week where I played all my 2012 girls even though there were some 2013s on the bench probably better. You need to keep girls interested and involved, and some click later than others.

In schools though, they are probably only down for 3 games in a league, the teacher involved might only have them for a year or two. The school photo of a winning team smiling with a cup, is probably the bigger reward than who's still playing next year in secondary school.

You can have massively motivated teachers, far better at coaching than even what's at the GAA club- each individual will be different - but the fundamental goals are different. GAA club is develop a team over maybe 10 years with same coaches, school team is a coach with a different squad every year, playing one off tournaments to get a prize.

wirelessdude01

I'm also involved in the club which we feed into and have been from u13 up to senior level.

With regards to the exclusion comment, I would take issue with that. Resilience is dealing with disappointment. Learning that from an early age is important and something that can come in many different forms, one of which is via teams/activities such as sport, quizzes, choir. We aren't always the best or deserve to be picked. Just turning up to training to entitle one to be picked. Many will disagree but as I said previously, 18 kids who went through my hands in school played division 1 senior league last year. The link between club and school is massive and very strong. Game time managed both ways. I'm very aware of what goes on in other schools and will 100% stand over what I do. The numbers flowing from school to club are testament to that. Two of my former pupils are playing in the u20 final on Wednesday.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123487709#Comment_123487709

How many quit playing in thier early teen?

Up and down the country you see clubs beat all around them at a young age, but when you get to minor and higher a lot of these fall away to be replaced by clubs who have a more balanced development path.

wirelessdude01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123489423#Comment_123489423

Of the lads I've had I'm aware of 2 that never played gaelic after primary school. One of them dropped everything after falling in with a bad crowd and the other picked soccer after pressure was applied by them and stopped that at 15. I'll firmly stand over my approach. At club/school level when I'm involved everyone gets a fair crack at it.

Getart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123490651#Comment_123490651

Get a look at fúckin Pep Guardiola over here….

wirelessdude01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123490708#Comment_123490708

Good man yourself. Nothing to add.

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123487709#Comment_123487709

How many kids that you have had at school are not playing any level of football now?

wirelessdude01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123501696#Comment_123501696

Ones that went through my hands, at u14 there are 19, u16 22, minor 16. 5 are on the books of LOI clubs, 2 in the Leinster Rugby eco system.

Three more that went through my hands made senior league debuts in the league this weekend.

Fall off occurs for various reasons. No matter what approach is taken it still occurs. Drinks, drugs, women, other sports, life, college, injuries, home environment, societal environment all play parts in the above. I look at myself, I stopped playing football myself at 26 as I couldn't keep all the plates spinning and got alot more enjoyment from hurting.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123487213#Comment_123487213

If its one thing that gets on my wick at underage is playing up strong kids when you have enough older kids. Like putting the best u14 on the u15 team as well, spreading them too thin and at the same time denying another kid a spot on the team.

If there enough 6th classers, play them. 5th class will have their go next year.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123487643#Comment_123487643

If there is one conclusion I'd take from 8 years of coaching club underage - its that winning is overrated.

Yes they need structure, and discipline. But if they are not enjoying it, then its a waste of time.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123478191#Comment_123478191

But that means the 4th class kid gets three cracks at it - 4th, and then 5th, and then 6th - whereas the 6th class kid doesnt get to play at all….

wirelessdude01

Not necessarily. I've had 4th class kids make it one year but then fall off and not make it subsequent years due to a variety of reasons. As I said each year it comes down to our training.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123518817#Comment_123518817

You obviously don't have kids yourself - if you did you would know how a kid can be turned off sport entirely by not getting a chance. Theyre primary school kids for ffs.

wirelessdude01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123518835#Comment_123518835

Where did I say they didn't get a chance? Do you think that someone who can't kick a ball should be played ahead of a lad who can?

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520536#Comment_123520536

Yes I do. Giving a kid who can't kick a ball now a chance could spark an interest in that child. It could encourage them to join a club and develop their skills. It's not all about winning - sport should be about fun above all and gives them a sense of belonging. As a teacher you should know this.

wirelessdude01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520593#Comment_123520593

Training twice a week is the chance to spark their interest, to develop their skills. Matches are not the time for this, they are the opportunity to showcase. As for joining a club, every single lad that came out this year is now a member of a club, most with the club in which I coach. I stand over my approach as it works for the vast majority and then gives an opportunity for the cream to rise.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520760#Comment_123520760

I honestly think you need to rethink your approach. You say yourself that every lad who came out for you this year is a member of the club. What about the kids that you didn't put out?

Do you just teach maths to the best lads in the class or do you teach all of them maths ?

You sound like the teacher that coached my daughter's team. The local club loses girls because of her. They've even lost girls that are good players because of this teachers antics. In the same school the teacher who coaches the boys let's every boy who wants to play play at least a few minutes per game which works great. His aim is to encourage not discourage.

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520925#Comment_123520925

Don’t think this poster is worth debating with. Too smug / self righteous……really like the justification of ‘playing up’ 4th class players in the 5/6th classes…🤔 the likelihood of a really good 4th class slipping back in ability and not making the team in subsequent years is almost non-existent unless it’s due to injury or family leaves the school. Unless the school is very small and doesn’t have enough players …is 2 years not enough for any child to represent it ie in 5th and 6th class…..playing 4th class players whether is a big panel of 5/6th class players is going to do nothing except really piss off the 5/6th players and of course let’s not forget their parents…🤔

wirelessdude01

Every single single lad that comes out to training now goes to a club. That is over 40 lads that come out on a regular basis. Some lads that don't start for the club start for the school team and vica versa.

As regards putting lads off ye are very much mistaken.

Not quite sure what ye expect but the kids are very sure of what we do. Expectations are set out at the start of each year that coming out to training is the very minimum that is required. Then a proper approach to training as we have a short window twice a week. I've had lads that were far better than those that came out to train but didn't themselves who weren't played. The opinion seems to be that I should have played them just because they were in 6th class.

Do you select kids for a quiz team just because they are in 6th? Not in our school we don't. Trials are held from 4th up and those that work and get the best results get selected. Same for the choir. Should you select kids from 6th even if they sound like crows for solos infront of hundreds of people. There is a duty of care there on all sides.

As regards pissing kids/parents off, I'm sure I have. One incident springs to mind where a mammy had notions. Choice was made. The kid I selected now plays for the senior team whereas the other kid is a non playing sub with the seniors

I've had other kids who refused to play for the school as I didn't give 6th priority. Again notions and said kids apologised for their attitude when they grew up a little as I trained them for 4/5yrs after that at club level. No dramas or things held against anyway.

Necro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123523290#Comment_123523290

Training twice a week? For Cumann na mBunscoil? So where are all these young fellas getting the time to play and train with their clubs so.

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123523290#Comment_123523290

Your approach would not be reflective of the ethos of Cumann na mBunscol. Thankfully teachers with your attitude are becoming more unusual in children’s sports. Schools are meant to be inclusive places with a holistic approach valuing every child equally.
Perhaps you should reflect on why success is so important to you. Is it really for the children?

FullBack Jam

You should read the ethos of the Go Games approach. I understand that Cumann na mBunscoil is a different set-up. But the GAA has obviously put a lot of time into marketing the Go Games approach, so it has a lot of backing behind it. The main point of it is to reduce competitiveness for kids at that age, that kids get proper participation rights, and that the main purpose of playing if for enjoyment and meeting friends.

https://www.gaa.ie/my-gaa/getting-involved/go-games

munster87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520760#Comment_123520760

Ye train twice a week after school? Do the kids train with the club in the evening then too?

selectamatic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123540705#Comment_123540705

Cumann na mBunscol is the step up from that though and in smaller schools players from as low as 3rd class will be needed to field teams. Due to the changes in underage club football/hurling with the go games structure, Cumann na mBunscol is for many the first instance of a competitive gaa competition in a championship format that kids and parents are experiencing.

This is why these threads are cropping up. I'm near certain there was one last year too. From my own experience everyone tries their very best to give all participants game time where possible. But once it's a closely fought knockout game it's best team on the pitch with only tactical substitutions taking place. As how it should be in a competitive competition.

If people don't want competitive competitions in primary school then Cumann na mBunscol will have to cease to exist and be replaced by go games style blitz days.

Goals and points can be counted properly in Cumann na mBunscol matches depending on agreement between the two competing teams.

jopper

Interesting thread and points being made in all cases.

So my experience, We are in a medium sized school and our decision is to give preference to 6th. All 6th who train and want to play get to attend the games. If there are still places we go down to 5th then. In the group games game time is given to everyone and we try to give all an equal chance.

Problems arise when it comes to getting to a final. This is a competitive competition, tell me a child who wants to lose a final???? Finals are there to be won. 99.99% the team you are playing in the final are playing to win too. So what do we do, play all the players for equality purposes and get bet out the gate? I tried this once and the backlash from parents was comical! I have learned you can’t keep every parent happy! Also children are not stupid, they know when the teacher is giving game time to a player in a final for equality purposes and I’ve seen this lead to cause teasing and bullying problems down the line.

So it comes down to this really… make Cuman na mBunscol competitive or not.

Regarding resilience, this is a becoming a worrying problem with a high number of children lacking in it. Don’t know the exact solution but it’s only getting worse!