Electrics behind raised washing machines?

alex_r

Planning out a new boot room. Quick question for those who've done this: where do you put your sockets for raised washing machines? Which option would you recommend?
My main concerns are ease of plugging/unplugging when getting machines in and out, safety, and maintenance. Option Two has a switched fused spur feeding two switched single sockets. Option One is simpler, but I've moved the sockets up for easier access, though I'm unsure if plugging/unplugging will be practical. Also, I'd prefer to avoid having holes in the back of my presses.

Calahonda52

Are there not regs now about an isolation switch, at a certain height, for all appliances

see here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058377680/isolator-switches-in-the-kitchen

alex_r

yeah, that’s why option 2 exists. I was wondering if anyone bothers to do that.
im wall-chasing the option 2 now anyways.

monseiur

One double socket will do - behind the dryer. Drill a 75mm hole in the dividing partition between washer & dryer and run the plug/cable from washing machine thru to socket. Is a dividing partition required ??

JL spark

you will over load a double socket with both plugged into it and ran the same time ,

Clean circuit form board into a 2g 20amp double pole switch, single socket for each appliance

The Mulk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123364614#Comment_123364614

Out of interest, what's the max load for a double socket?

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123364622#Comment_123364622

13 Amp which gives you the general figure of 3 kW max as 13 * 240 = 3.12 kW

The Mulk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123364764#Comment_123364764

I was under the impression that double sockets were rated for max 20 amp (2 x 10A, for example), but using two single sockets seems better practice for heavy load machines.

I'll update me own utility room plan, cheers.

Calahonda52

13 amp double

Wearb

John Ward covers this topic in detail here.

Bear in mind that he assumes everything else such as correct torque, supply wire not degraded by covering with insulation, correct fusing etc. is correct

In summary, he says max of 20a, but no more than 13a in either outlet.

https://youtu.be/70lGXrlPExw?si=EcfHtjJMcKF7FWo2

The Mulk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123365538#Comment_123365538

So it's max 20 amp for a double socket and not 13 amp for a double socket that has been pointed out in a previous post?

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123366117#Comment_123366117

Yes. Just note my other comments.

Calahonda52

So is this a consequence of Brexit or is MK some cheap chinese crap?

The Mulk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123366277#Comment_123366277

Had a read of bs 1363-2:2023 this morning, the standard these skts should be manufactured to.

Each socket outlet should be rated for 13A and stamped on the back 13A . So is a twin skt classed as two outlets?

I'll put in two twins instead of one for my washer and dryer, better safe than sorry!

Although they're the last 10 years plugged into a double skt with no issues

PixelCrafter

It actually seems to vary by manufacturer : https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/6725.pdf

The minimum specification is for 20 amps total load on the double plate.

Seems the test protocol is 14 amps on one side and 6 amps on the other for a sustained load.

Then some manufactures (and seemingly only for some ranges) like MK Logic Plus are rated for 2 x 13 amps, exceeding the spec.

But, basically seems 20amps max is the general spec.

Oddly the MK triple socket is rated 13 amps in total and has an internal fuse limiting it to that.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123368139#Comment_123368139

what ratings are the two units, my guess is 2kw each and then there is the likelihood that the full 4 was not drawn at the same time

The Mulk

Max is 2.7 kw for dryer and 1.4 kw for washer,

So at 240v it's 17.1 Amps. They'd never run at max load simutaneously. Is there set diversity rates for washer/dryers or are all diversity factors removed from the regs now?

Even allowing a generous 75% of max demand it comes under a total of 13 Amps.

PixelCrafter

That's actually quite low for a washing machine. They vary quite a bit.

For example, just looking at mine there and it's 2.25kW at 230V for the washing machine.

It rarely draws that for very long, but it does draw it for a few mins (much like a kettle) when it's heating water - the vast majority of the load is drawn by the heating elements, not the mechanical parts of the machine.

The motor only draws a few hundred watts when even on max 1600 spin, and less than 100W when just tumbling during the cycle and the draw from the drain and recirculation pumps etc are less than 100W. So basically, you'll get intermittent running of the heating element to bring the temp up and then it stops heating - if you're doing a long boil cycle or something it will run the heater a lot more.

A lot of them these days use fairly well insulated drums and quite fancy motors that are extremely efficient and modulated - they'll match the torque output to the load and all of that. They're a long way from the days of noisy old brush motors.

The dryer is 1.1kW max and, based on having plugged a meter in it runs at about 600-700W most of the cycle. It's a heat pump machine though. Seems it draws more for the first 20 mins or so and then drops back to about 700W. It's basically an air conditioner in a loop.

So the absolute max load for mine would be 3.35kW which is just over 14.5 amps, so still well under the max 20 amp for a twin MK logic socket.

My machines sit on their own RCBO on a 20amp circuit.

A washer with a big element and a vented dryer could definitely exceed that 20amp max.

Even with diversity, just bear in mind that a washing machine could potentially draw a lot of power for up to 15-20 mins to bring a full load of washing up to high temps and older vented dryers are huge energy hogs and will pull their rated load continuously - blowing the heat straight out a duct in the wall - that's why there were so expensive to run. They're basically the equivalent of putting a fan heater in the back yard.