Would US Multinationals leave Ireland in favour of Poland?

tinytobe

I've always wondered if US mulinational businesses would one day leave Ireland for Poland.

The reasons would be varous:

Like the Irish, the Polish have a strong US expat footprint. Polish Americans could easily push for US support in all ways back in their country of origin in Poland.

Poland invested a lot in infrastructure recently, by far more than Ireland.

The population of Poland is very open minded towards the US regardless whom the US has as a president.

Military is very much using US equipment, US military presence in Poland as well.

Cities like Warsaw have seen a lot of growth, lot's of new high rises as well as an underground

EU membership and EU law means also investment security.

The Polish seem to be friendly, welcoming and proactive people, they younger generation has no problems with English, also a getting things done attitude.

Other than language difficulties as the only barrier ( Polish isn't exactly an easy language ) all the paramenters would fit for investment of US multinational businesses.

ancapailldorcha

I wouldn't say so. If it was going to happen on a huge scale, it would have done so already. It doesn't matter where the Polish armed forces source their materiel from. That's not going to factor into this sort of decision at all. I wouldn't call Poland particularly welcoming either. The language is incredibly difficult to learn and the scale on which locals speak English is heavily exaggerated. It's quite monocultural which will be off-putting to a lot of people.

That said, low paid and low skilled work is the sort which might move to Poland but I can't see many companies upending their entire supply chains for not much benefit, particularly given the security issues with Russia and an imperialist United States.

A US multinational I deal with a lot moved their customer care team to Poland, Katowice I think. It's been quite bad. They're open for fewer hours on our end because of the time zone difference, communications have been an issue and stuff just doesn't get done as quickly as before.

They also have a strong far right party in PiS. Not a lot of highly skilled people are going to want to live in an illiberal country with such a corrupt party pushing the ideology of the Catholic Church into people's daily lives.

I don't think there's anything to worry about here.

A polish person told me housing has become prohibitively expensive in decent parts of cities. Can anyone verify?

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123176821#Comment_123176821

It's quite possible that they have similar problems, but at a lower level.

There is also a lot of ex-communist high rise housing architecture around.

The newly built single family homes are actually very nice, rather good quality I must say.

Old town centers are often wonderfully restored.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123176838#Comment_123176838

Would you pay a premium for a period apartment / house in the old town as you would here or are they more focused on nice new builds?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123176821#Comment_123176821

Depends on what you mean by verify. If it's good enough for you, I know a woman from Gdansk. She has a friend who is still there living with her parents despite working for an international accountancy firm.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123176870#Comment_123176870

I basically want to know if a nice flat/house there would be expensive in our terms or if it is a case of them being cheap to an Irish person but seeming expensive to this person who was used to them being much cheaper before.

The person made it out like it’s the same or worse than here for house prices.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123176949#Comment_123176949

I had a quick look and Gdansk looks cheaper than London or Galway but it's probably as expensive for the Poles there as the former two are for people living there.

NiceFella

Irelands location at the edge of Europe is a big reason. We're disconnected from the threat of a war on the mainland. Also much closer to the US. Another factor is probably that we are much less exposed to extreme weather events like flooding, heat waves etc etc.

We've also the highest level of university educated people in the whole of the EU. And also probably the most politically stable countrie in the EU.

Moving to Poland would not serve and practically purpose for those companies imo.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123176962#Comment_123176962

That makes sense. Thank you

LambshankRedemption

I lived in Czechia for a few years. All the companies I worked for it was the same, Engineering was in Czechia and HR, Legal and Finance was in Ireland.

So it's not a case of "could they move to Poland (or Czechia or anywhere else)", it's that they are already there.

An Irish based telecom company I worked for years ago moved all it's support staff to India because salaries are so much less. A year later they moved support back to Ireland. Communication had become a major issue. Poor communication with support staff of a telecom company looks really bad.

I like Poland, I've been there many times. I wouldn't agree with the assertion that they are very friendly and levels of English vary widely.

highpitcheric

Moving involves a massive financial hit.

Someone always will want to not risk it lest it fail on their watch, or will want it later but not now cause it doesnt fit their plan. Business likes stability, why rock the boat. If its going well enough that is.

And US multinationals arent entirely controlled by US people. Boards are made up of all sorts of interests and nationalities.

Geuze

Dell moved some production from Limerick to Lodz.

gmisk

I can see it happening to a degree.

I know Fujitsu is winding down in Ireland, but they have a big and seemingly growing presence in Lodz, Warsaw and Katowice in Poland.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123177590#Comment_123177590

I remember that, however I think that was even nearly 20 years ago? Eastern Europe is in general rather attractive for production for mulitnationals.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123177650#Comment_123177650

Myself as well, to a degree. I have the odd feeling that Ireland will not always be the number one destination for investment of US multinationals, just because many Americans have Irish ancestry, Ireland speaks English and Ireland offers low taxes.

This doesn't mean that Ireland will see a recession or other economic problems.

Besides Poland, Spain comes up as well every now and then. Microsoft seems to hire some roles in Barcelona and so do some others in the IT sector, but still they retain their office in Dublin.

Scar001

Stryker already off the mark in Poland.

Being led by some of the Limerick lads.

riddles

Sofia Bucharest and Budapest and Portugal

Are higher up the pecking order now than Poland. salary expectations are soaring there now compared to what they were.

Wanderer78

…some maybe, but most very unlikely, be grand lads, relax, they aint going anywhere, no matter what the orange fella says or does!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058396745/would-us-mulitnationals-leave-ireland-in-favour-of-poland

Dell ready did. The Polish factory is supposed to be a mirror image of the original Limerick factory. Which I believe was the original AST factory.

ednwireland

Probably, but the war in Ukraine may have put a dampener on that one for now. Nobody's going to keep low end manufacturing in Ireland wages, housing and cost of living are just too high.

Once you are out of the cities there's only polish spoken.

Stayed in this place a few years ago, staff only had polish

https://www.travelmyth.ie/Reszel/Hotels/Zamek-Reszel_tmid149550

Polar101

Are they not there already? I work for one of those companies in Ireland, and the Polish operation is by far the largest.

If something happens to the tax haven here, then I could definitely see some movement away, but otherwise not

plodder

I remember when Dell moved to Poland. That was over 15 years ago and I don't think there's been many others since then. PC manufacturing has low enough margins. So, they were probably quite sensitive to labour costs, which wouldn't be quite the same for other sectors like pharma. Corporation tax, English language and a legal system very similar to the US would be big reasons why there isn't going to be any mad exodus to countries like Poland in the near future imo.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123178901#Comment_123178901

They moved manufacturing to Poland but still have a huge presence here in much higher skilled jobs.

https://www.idaireland.com/success-stories/dell-technologies#:~:text=With%20approximately%204%2C500%20team%20members,a%20strategic%20presence%20in%20Ireland.

Despite losing 1900 manufacturing jobs in Limerick back in 2009 there are 1000 people still there in the converted factory.

https://jobs.dell.com/en/get-to-know-dell-technologies-ireland

During that time we developed as a cheap manufacturing low wage economy to a highly skilled one.

Pixel Eater

There's this constant sword of Damocles narrative of these multinationals pulling out even though they've been here for decades at this stage, and their employment and revenues have soared not diminished. The whole environment and system that's been set up here has been extremely successful and is envied by many other countries. I guess it's part of the Irish inferiority complex just won't allow us to accept we've been successful at something and it can't last.

DeadHand

Unless action is taken to improve the availability of accomodation and the accelerating degeneration of the country into lawlessness is halted, maybe.

Ireland is on a dark and chaotic path which Poland, to its eternal credit, has steadfastly refused.

I predict that, within most of our lifetimes, a significant migration of Western people and businesses will occur in Europe from West to East as States such as ours, Germany, France and the UK are racked by social dysfunction and internal conflicts.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123179960#Comment_123179960

…maybe, but probably not, we ll go up and down, we re clearly in a social downward spiral, but it ll probably eventually settle, i.e. be grand, we seem to be hard wired for doomsday thinking though!

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123179915#Comment_123179915

I think something 15 of the top global pharma companies have operations in Ireland which has a created its own ecosphere like Silicon Valley. Companies that have built up over decades don't suddenly relocate.

whisky_galore

Never say never. We once manufactured everything from textiles to sugar and these were gradually shut down or reduced to shell companies here but having their manufacturing relocated overseas.

Everything is cyclical, it's fanciful to believe we are immune to boardroom decisions made elsewhere, moreso now that there's been a real cooling of US-European relations and the decline in Irish American influence.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123178998#Comment_123178998

Dell's move to Poland didn't work out too well for them, they ended up selling the factory to Foxconn after a few years. Most Dell stuff comes from China now.

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/business/dell-ceases-all-manufacturing-in-europe

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123179915#Comment_123179915

I would agree with this one. The US multinationals obviously like the business climate in Ireland, and if they could leave, they would have left already. Fact is, they are still in Ireland and didn't leave.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123179960#Comment_123179960

That one I also see happening to a certain degree. Having worked in some of the US mulinationals in Ireland, I can also say, it's often a hire and fire attitude, whether you're a high performer or low performer depends on loads of other factors beyond one's control, clearly other than your own focus on the job and then there is housing. After one and a half years or two years most shared housing arrangements do fall apart, people having different habits, getting tired of each other, so the idea to leave Ireland is often an easy choice, - especially if it's about young, international and mobile employees.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123180201#Comment_123180201

Foxcon is also present in the Czech republic, not only Poland, I think.

Oracle Ireland relocated some of their inside sales jobs to Malaga in Spain around 2010 or so, and for those who made the move found themselves in a more chaotic country, only lured there by warmer weather and a bit cheaper rents.

Also there are language matters, Spanish, albeit easier to learn and certainly more interesting than Polish, would also be a concern.

Wanderer78

….ireland is geopolitically more stable than eastern europe, another reason for mnc's to stay put!