Would Berty make a good President.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123071244#Comment_123071244

No.

I am suggesting that if we have characters with more murky pasts than BA running we need to consider the reason we continue to pay millions upon millions a year for a largely ceremonial office than can't attract decent people to run for it.

satguy

No.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123071255#Comment_123071255

But we would have to change the constitution.

Besides we had a few candidates with murky pasts before and the Office survived.

Trust the people, trust democracy.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123071140#Comment_123071140

Peace on the island of Ireland -yes I know it was completed on the great work of previous leaders like Bruton - but it was done. Personally 30 years on I couldn’t give a fig about his “walking around money”

Bertie for President - Vote No1 😀

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123071322#Comment_123071322

Whats wrong with changing the constitution? We've done it before.

Indeed we have had a number of candidates in the past with murky pasts however as I very clearly stated if Bertie Ahern is the best of a bad lot, ie people with murkier pasts than he running against him, we need to review the office and it's necessity.

Personally I think it's a complete waste of money and has turned again into a retirement home for politicians.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123071386#Comment_123071386

Would you be as behind Gerry Adams for the office based on that logic?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123071402#Comment_123071402

There's nothing wrong with changing the constitution for a good reason.

I don't think asking the people to abolish the Presidency because you think the candidates are not suitable is a good reason.

The money spent on the office is small compared to the overall cost of running the state.

Besides not all of the expenditure would disappear IE. we'd still need to send someone to represent us abroad, the Aras would still need to be maintained etc.

As for it being a retirement home the four previous presidents before MDH were all finished their terms before they reached retirement age.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123071481#Comment_123071481

If the only people running for the presidency turn out to be less ethical and trustworthy than BA you have to question the rationale for the office and why it is attracting unethical and untrustworthy people to it.......that's my logic. Of course it's unlikely on many levels.

I suppose 5 million odd a year isn't big money in the whole scheme of things but I think you'll find the younger in the population don't see any rationale for the office in general.

If BA runs and gets in that's another retired politician......

The fact that BA is even in this conversation is damning if you ask me.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123071510#Comment_123071510

I agree it's just a hypothetical discussion.

Any change is very unlikely mostly because it's another prize for the politicians to try to win.

I don't see why we can't go back to electing younger presidents who would be more in touch as well as fit for the rigours of office.

On BA, I said earlier in the thread that he would be well able for the job but would find it hard to get elected.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123071553#Comment_123071553

Ah yeah.

But as was also said earlier there's 90 percent of us on here that would be well able for the job but won't get elected either.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123071560#Comment_123071560

Well I will happily admit to being one of the 10 percent.

I'm sure BA would do a better job than me🙂

Actually when this thread first started I thought it was going to be a discussion about how good he would be in the job.

That would have been a more interesting topic because we all know he has feet of clay and there are many reasons not to elect him.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123071417#Comment_123071417

Christ no - why should I consider Gerry Adams? - there’s absolutely no logic to follow except in your own head - and before you ask I wouldn’t consider Ian Paisley if he were alive either.

I would take each potential candidate on their merits - when the final line up is in place for the election I’ll make my decision at that point - but I wouldn’t ever consider Gerry Adams- I’d vote Dana before him

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123071211#Comment_123071211

Varadkar? Yes on both. Ryan, I think the greens like him but he would have been electorally toxic for the party..

AllForIt

After the antics of our current president I am taking no interest in the next presidential election, rather I recommend the position be scrapped.

All we are doing is giving some already privileged person 7 more years of even more privilege where they can fan their ego of self importance by a giant fireplace in a mansion as they watch herds of fallow dear pass yonder. Shur who wouldn't want an additional 7 years of that after they've had 7. Noone likes downgrading.

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123071620#Comment_123071620

How would we know how good he will be if we don't elect him until then we couldn't possible suggest he'd be good :)

I personally didn't think Bertie was a great ambassador for Ireland, there are some good thing about Bertie but that I don't think that was one of them.

IMO it will be Michael McDowell for President.

Penn

Would he be a good President? Yes.

Should he be President? Absolutely f*cking not.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123080838#Comment_123080838

McDowell is definitely making moves but I don't see any path to nomination.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123080838#Comment_123080838

Of course your right we don't know and probably never will know how good he'd be.

It was just a flight of fancy on my part that it might be a sort of "Fantasy President" kind of thread.

Imagine if you will, that we woke up one morning and Bertie was in the Park.

I should have realised that the discussion could only go one way due to his chequered past.

For the record I think he'd have done us proud in the office at home and abroad.

As for M McDowell, he certainly has plenty of self belief.

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123080838#Comment_123080838

How do we know if any candidate will make a good President.

Look at Michael D. Disaster.

z80CPU

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123081089#Comment_123081089

The powers that be know this.

Higgins got away with a lot of shoyt and was never rebuffed.

When President Robinson was invited to host the dimbelby lectures she was denied by CJ Haughy ( fcker would have been 109 this year)

Pretty petty of Haughy.

I remember Mary Robinson for her travelling on the condom train enterprise service from Belfast to Amiens street back in the day

As for Higgins - those god awful knitted tea tidies and other nonsense

z80CPU

This was already previously suggested when President Hillary was in power.

Unremarkable fella.

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123081129#Comment_123081129

What was previously suggested ?

An unremarkable fella that refused to take a phone call from what I remember. He didn't have the media coverage that Robinson got.

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123080900#Comment_123080900

I'd say he has enough Independent Senators and TDs that would nominate him.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123081179#Comment_123081179

I'd say he hasn't a chance. Indeed I'm absolutely confident that there are not enough.

You need 20 nominations. There's 16 Independent TDs (16 elected, plus Hayes, minus the CC who should not nominate anyone even if they can) and currently 10 Independent/microparty Senators.

A reasonable number of those wouldn't nominate him under any circumstances - Hayes, Healy, Gogarty, Stanley, Connolly from the Dáil side; Higgins, Black Ruane (should all be re-elected easily) from the Seanad side are all going to be out.

If he can get 10 nominations from the 19 I've not listed I'd be surprised; and that's all he can expect to get. He would be too urban and liberal for Independent Ireland; and too liberal for Aontú to try get their support

jacool

Bartholomew is a boy's name with Aramaic roots. This regal name means "son of Talmai (the farmer)." Talmai is a Hebrew name meaning "abounding in furrows"

My brow would be abounding in furrows if this country elected Bertie "the bankless".

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123081210#Comment_123081210

I would disagree and agree TBH

Catherine Connolly (Labour), Paul Nicholas Gogarty (green), Seamus Healy (workers) and Brian Stanley (SF) are unlikely to nominate him as they are to the left.

The other 12 are all a mix, with Carol Nolan (SF) being an outlier, so 11 and 10 if you drop the CC (not sure why they shouldn't).

Aontú are a possibility bring it to 12, though they disagree with him on a number of issues I believe that they are far more fair minded than many think. Media have put them in a box.

Independent Ireland have 4 bring it to 16. I don't agree with this urban and liberal divide, again I think they are probably more open minded when it comes to people of differing opinions.

And there are at least 4 out going Senators that would give him a nomination, can he nominate himself should he be re-elected?

Higgins, Black and Ruane (should all be re-elected easily) from the Seanad side are all going to be out.

Politician's who probably agree with many of McDowells views but can see past their own politics.

Zappone will have to run for President so!

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123081328#Comment_123081328

You're still making the bonkers assumption that all the non-left wing Independent TDs will nominate an extremely unpopular (in political circles) former AG that many of them will have clashed with. Ditto most other Senators. You don't nominate people for the hell of it.

It's quite likely that the Regional group and the Healey Raes will decline to nominate anyone due to being in Government, bringing you down to less than 20 potentials to begin with.

The CC nominating a candidate would be a disgrace to their impartiality, ditto the Cathaoirleach of the Seanad; but they'll be FF or FG anyway

He is not going to get an Oireachtas nomination, there is no way to bend the numbers.

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123081349#Comment_123081349

Former AG and minister for justice, who I would have even clashed with on many of his policies and views, and still possible do. Member of the Bar and Barrister to whistleblower Maurice McCabe. And he did lead much of the debate effectively on the last 2 referendums.

It would be disappointing not to see him nominated, even if just from a Debate point of view, Bertie wouldn't last a minute.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123081363#Comment_123081363

You don't nominate someone on an "ah sure, the arguments were good" basis, though. Ever.

Although I'd love to see him fail to get expenses (1/4 of a quota)…

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123081371#Comment_123081371

That's why Berty will win :)

But on your point about the Government Independents, are you saying that the Green's wouldn't have nominated some one for President had had the chance during the last 5 years? They could have easily found support for a nominee with LP and SD help. They might even have been able to get a nomination through via Independents.

Next you will tell me that FG won't nominate anyone and let Berty take the role.