Do you believe that we in Ireland are now richer than those in the UK?

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122973815#Comment_122973815

Germany produces a lot of luxury items so the additional costs can be absorbed. I have been out of the industry for a while now, but BMW used to make the vast majority of its 3 series in South Africa and Mexico, with Germany being reserved for the more exclusive ranges. VW and Mercedes are the same. They all have plants or joint ventures in China as well.

don’t forget, Germany is currently the sick man of Europe and its economy is stagnating.

felonious_Gru

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122973888#Comment_122973888

I know that but retaining manufacturing is a wise policy, Germany has a much more regionally balanced economy

Most VW sold in America are built in Mexico

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122973786#Comment_122973786

it has been reliant on foreign investment and also reliant on high end jobs. Yes, Ireland has a lot of pharma but it is nearly all pure manufacturing with research being done in the US, UK or Germany.
the UK has huge amounts of talent coming out of the universities who create some fantastic IP, but it then get bought up and the products made elsewhere and that has nothing to do with Thatcher or anything else, it is simple globalisation.

ancapailldorcha

A lot of European countries are really struggling at the moment.

Germany is the notable example. It's government has collapsed and there's no real consensus there. It's export-focused economic model has been struggling more and more with the rise of China. They still do a lot of high-end manufacturing like lenses and machine components but that's about it. They're also facing demographic collapse, the worst in Europe aside from Italy.

France just seems to veer between being on fire and not being on fire while looking more and more favourably towards Le Pen and the far right.

The Dutch look set to follow Britain's lead in all the wrong ways by electing a blonde bigot with ludicrous hair who wants to leave the EU, enact the disastrous deportation policy and deny climate change, the latter in a country where a third of the landmass is below sea level.

Italy is en route to demographic collapse due to economic stagnation and some of the worst debt in the continent. In fairness to her, Giorgia Meloni is a more competent leader than expected and she's pro-Ukraine. Also, this photo exists:

The UK has serious problems, many of which are self-inflicted but the EU itself doesn't look so hot right now either. It struggles to formulate collective policy on key issues like climate action and Ukraine and some of its members like Hungary are openly pro-Russian imperialism.

If anyone can name a country with great healthcare, welfare, affordable housing and a booming economy with plenty of jobs and adult retraining opportunities, I would be all ears.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122973905#Comment_122973905

of course, but for how long can they do that? There is a reason why their economy is in the sewer at the moment.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122973916#Comment_122973916

It used to be like that, but then Irish offshoots created their own drugs like Narcan. This is a piece from 2017.

Narcan, made by Irish firm Adapt Pharma, is becoming an increasingly familiar name in the US.

Some 640,000 doses of its nasal spray, worth some $30 million*, were shipped there in the 11 months to the end of last year. Coroners’ offices, rehabilitation workers and street activists say it has saved many lives.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/narcan-the-irish-weapon-in-america-s-drugs-war-1.3179558

We've created a biomed and pharma hub that's only getting bigger. For instance diabetes drugs for western markets have taken up the lull left in the wake of Covid vaccine boom.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122969171#Comment_122969171

I'd say it's partially true. The city of London does have a lot of wealth, way more than Dublin ever could have. Same goes for certain rural areas in the UK, beautiful coasts as well as certain other cities and villages.

And yes, there are some parts of the UK which are very poor as well as areas where the outlook is permanently poor. Declining economies and economic shifts, business depressions, etc….

Ireland's budget and financial debt still seems to be rather large and go back to the financial ciris.

Ireland also has problems, like chronically under-fundend police services and even more under-funded defence forces. Parts of society would also deny the idea that Ireland could ever be attacked which would make it even more attractive for an enemy to consider invading in a case of a conflict. A capable Irish air force with fighter jets is as unrealistic as ever…..

The NHS in the UK seems bad, the HSE in Ireland even worse.

Ireland's roads / bridges and infrastructure seems better.

Property prices to buy seem better in Ireland than in the UK, but rents are unrealistically high. This makes it tough for younger people as they can't build up any savings.

Dublin is still lacking key infrastructure, trains, a possible underground, more LUAS lines, etc… Possible high rise housing is controversial in Dublin, often get's the chop for whatever reason, whilst UK cities seem to be building high rise after high rise.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122973966#Comment_122973966

I’m not sure what your point is? The drug wasn’t developed here, just produces by an Irish company.
yes, the bio pharma here is doing very well, but it is still nearly all manufacturing and not R&D.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122973972#Comment_122973972

Until I lived in England I had had a very positive impression of the NHS, but then trying to access the NHS which is paid for via my council taxes changed my perception. It was easier to just get a next day appointment at my old GP whenever I was home. The same cervical cancer failures were happening via the NHS as in the HSE, the same US labs were failing both systems but there was hardly any media coverage in the British press about it.

There seemed to be a UK societal embargo about mentioning any negative outcome stories about the NHS whereas discussing HSE weaknesses is a weekly staple of Irish media, and I'm ok with highlighting where improvements are needed rather than not talking about it, like in the UK.

I think Dublin is a planning mess and an infrastructural nightmare. I feel extremely confident anyone who had to make decisions about public transport doesn't use it, and that no one involved in the planning of inner Dublin city living actually lives there.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122969060#Comment_122969060

"our weather is terrible"

Irelands climate is relatively stable compared to most other countries in the world.

"our housing access is probably the worst in the world"

• Irish housing completions per 1,000 of population the strongest among 19 European countries and more than double the Euroconstruct average
• New Irish housing completions forecast at 36,000 for 2024 and 41,000 in 2025
• Overall Irish construction output projected to grow by 3.9% in 2024 and 5.7% in 2025
• Total construction activity in the 19 Euroconstruct countries expected to contract by 2.7% in 2024, before recovering by 1.3% in 2025

Irish housing completions forecast to be strongest among 19 European countries: EY-Euroconstruct | EY - Ireland

"our health system is broken"

Irelands health system ranks 23rd out of 163 in the world:

Health and health system ranking of countries worldwide in 2023 | Statista

"our housing prices are high but that does not benefit anyone but investors"

this is just false.

ill leave this here for ya:

Ireland is ranked in joint 7th place in the human development (tied with Germany) index rankings:

List of countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia

Sorry pal but Ireland is one of the best places to live in the world right now and will only get better as more housing and infrastructure is built.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974028#Comment_122974028

We also must be at the very top of the table in terms of household wealth.

Over 200k per person for every man, woman and child in the state.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974026#Comment_122974026

are you sure you lived in the UK?

the NHS is paid for through NI and the Brits never stop complaining about it.

thereiver

Our economy is booming of course if you can't get a mortgage or buy a house you may not feel great having to pay ridiculous rent for a small flat councils in England are going broke cutting back services the labour party is raising tax's on everything it can think of economy's gp in cycles boom bust every government is a combo of ff fg and some independent party

We are in Celtic tiger mark 2 with the difference that it's a lot harder to get a mortgage and we have a housing crisis

Young people are leaving because of the housing crisis and high tax's

And it costs 3ook to build a bike shelter

Grey123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122971231#Comment_122971231

It may also point to our priorities as a society. Or perhaps just the priorities of TD based in their core voting demographics.

I don’t begrudge her her lifestyle. But it’s worth asking are we just that much better off as a society that we can afford to support her to that extend or does it come at a cost to others?

I suspect it’s those on middle incomes who pay the price here. Particularly those who are younger, trying to buy and pay childcare. It can be very difficult to “get ahead” for those who say earn above the average income. It’s certainly much harder to invest vs the UK. No tax free investing here.

To be honest thats all okay if the state can provide a decent level of living in retirement. A fair trade off.

Except the game is up there too. It’s unlikely those of us retiring in 20 years will have the same quality of life as her because it’s not really sustainable.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974043#Comment_122974043

Household wealth compared across countries is utterly pointless. Makes no account for how much that money gets you in that country.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974086#Comment_122974086

Local rates also contribute to facilities, hence why there's such a thing as postcode lottery where families will move to a different NHS trust area to access services that their local Trust won't cover.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974103#Comment_122974103

If you compare it against a country with a comprable cost of living, it is a reasonable metric. So comparing it with the UK would be reasonable.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974043#Comment_122974043

yes and when you add in how politically and geographically safe a place like Ireland is to live, its very hard to make an argument against this country.

Young people rightly give out about housing but there are and will be more of the likes of the below schemes:

Affordable Homes - lda

We have an amazing SW system that looks after people that need it.

Our health service is fantastic if you have private health insurance- but that's the model that is in place in Ireland- the public health system is also really good- once you get in the system, which is the hard part, as the waiting times are huge. However this is because the same docs work both private and public but get paid more for private and hence are incentivised to look after private patients first.

Our planning system is whats holding the country back- but that is being revamped also, hopefully we will see the benefits of this in the next 2 years:

gov.ie - Landmark Planning and Development Bill approved by Houses of the Oireachtas

jimmycrackcorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122969060#Comment_122969060

Our weather is pretty much comparable to the UK. It's not as if the UK is parked next to Tenerife.

housing access is on a par with other locations with successful economies.

Our health systems has better outcomes than the NHS

Investors are a small percentage of purchasers when it comes to our housing.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122971815#Comment_122971815

Cars not a good metric, we have very high taxes on cars especially big engines. We also have a culture of hating people in flash cars, look at him in his Merc etc, so many that can afford high end cars such as CEOs of hundreds of staff have low profile cars and non designated CEO parking spaces. While there are high end cars around, in ROI they tend to be very showoff personalities.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974272#Comment_122974272

you clearly don’t live in South Dublin.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974111#Comment_122974111

the postcode lottery is solely down to the NHS trust and how well it is run.

John_Rambo

The wealthy Irish are not as rich as the wealthy Brits.

The poor Irish are not as poverty stricken as the not so well off Brits.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974367#Comment_122974367

ultimately, Joe soap is the same whether they live in Dublin, London, Frankfurt or Milan.

It’s an obsession with some people that we always have to compare Ireland and the UK. It’s like that is the benchmark and nothing else matters. How the hell do you compare a country of 5m people with a country of 60m. Not to mention that London is a fairly unique global city and is comparable to Paris and New York way easier than it is to Dublin. Mind you, Dublin bars and restaurants use the “it’s that much in London” excuse to gouge people on the price of a pint.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974392#Comment_122974392

Very passionate and interesting. But the point remains. The wealthy Irish are not as rich as the wealthy Brits and the poor Irish are not as poverty stricken as the not so well off Brits.

Very common to have neighbouring countries compared to each other due to their proximity, shared history, and intertwined economies & culture.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974367#Comment_122974367

Which is the way we want it. A society with enormous differentials of wealth tends to have a lot of problems.

j62

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974028#Comment_122974028

All one need to look is the most popular threads in parallel

All about everyone trying to get into this country

Quite a lot of Brits arrived after brexit too

People wouldn’t be migrating here in such numbers if it was a terrible place as we are told

Quitelife

The vast majority in the UK are living hand to mouth every month and if they lost a tenner it would be a big deal . Every penny is watched when their shopping , even Northern Ireland is a lot poorer than the 26 counties

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122975055#Comment_122975055

"Even" NI?

NI is the poorest of all the UK regions.

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974337#Comment_122974337

I live in south Dublin, only a modest area, dundrum. I work down in dun laoire, dalkey etc sometimes. I see very few serious cars, Aston Martin, lambourgini or Ferraris, in other " wealthy" areas of other " rich " towns or cities, they are ten a penny...

I got a pint of lager in camden town for e6 last weekend, on the main street, cheaper than you'd get it in this low wage, high tax country... when I say high tax, I mean if you're on decent money, 80k plus... a huge amount are outside of the tax net and if working, contributing a pittance in direct taxes...

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122975060#Comment_122975060

It isn't. It's had huge amounts of funding from Brussels, London and Dublin pumped into it. I'd take over a lot of the mainland to be honest, particularly areas like North Wales, Cornwall, and Derby.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122975082#Comment_122975082

They do receive a lot of funding, but even recent reports have marked NI as the poorest UK region.

Earlier this year, the Joseph Rowntree foundation listed NI as one of the poorest regions in europe, let alone the UK.

Child poverty in particular is a big issue.

1 in 4 children in NI are living in poverty.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122975080#Comment_122975080

more common then here maybe, but not ten a penny and that has nothing to do with not wanting to show off, it’s because there isn’t a lot of point buying one when there is nowhere to drive them. What you are more likely to see in the UK is normal people driving a decent fairly new BMW or a high end mini, cars that are much harder to find here. When I bought my last car, the BMW sales guy said that a large BMW dealer in London could easily sell more cars a year than the whole of BMW Ireland.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122975100#Comment_122975100

Credit is easler to get in the UK also.

I agree that a lack of flash cars in an area does not mean the area isn't wealthy.

There will be smaller cities in the UK than Dublin that have a lot more flash cars than we have in Dublin, but house prices, average salaries and net wealth in that city will be half that of Dublin.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122975098#Comment_122975098

poverty is a relative thing and it is based on median income of the population. Theoretically, if the boss of Kerry group gave themselves a €10m payrise then people would be placed into poverty, because their income is below 60% of the median. Our poverty rate for children is one in six, which I find hard to believe.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122975113#Comment_122975113

Very true, but NI has the 2nd lowest median income for full time employees of all 12 UK regions.

Quitelife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122975060#Comment_122975060

it’s still on the same island as us and border areas would have a lot of rich southerners shopping there plus a share work in the 26 counties ….

Quitelife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122975138#Comment_122975138

The poorest areas are in loyalist housing estates full of hate and don’t seem to have the motivation or brains to go to third level

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122975173#Comment_122975173

Are you saying you need to go to 3rd level to make serious money?

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122975098#Comment_122975098

In 2019,GDP per capita in NI was higher than Wales or North-East England and Brexit has held poorer parts of Britain back. Income figures are about the same as Wales or NE England.

Since 2020 things have improved in the ROI relative to the UK.

In NI, there is some money in the outer Belfast area, but there is a huge problem West of the Bann. Everything in NI is based in Belfast, on this map you cannot see Derry whereas every other place of reasonable size in Ireland has a more prosperous area around it e.g. Co Waterford and Co. Sligo are doing OK.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122974043#Comment_122974043

House owership or our employers?

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122971159#Comment_122971159

Ive lived in Toronto for four years, Vancouver for 8 and North East USA for 8. I am not sure I would call Vancouver's problems, poverty, more like extreme opioid addiction. I agree that Ireland has it very good but Vancouver is a hard comparison by any standards. I mean Ireland can even get an overground train to its primary airport, Vancouver , a relatively new city at the edge of Canada, has an underground subway to its airport, right into the middle of the city, as well as other lines. They have top class skiing only 30 minutes out in north van and of course world class 2 hours up the road. You have islands with fantastic ferry service, amazing hiking in old growth forest and the West coast trail there on Vancouver island. Vancouver is literally one of the best places on earth, it's gonna be in demand and therefore expensive. Again I agree with you that Ireland has it good but man, picking Vancouver, I mean there are few places better in the world.

Now the opioid / homelessness is dire and so is the soulless culture of transient rich people who would walk over a dead body for a line of coke and 200k, it's a weird mix...and then the occasional true blood from the country who appears on the weekend to get wrecked.

worded

Rich in paradise ...

https://youtu.be/p7JXC4CfehM?si=xqqQ8rzSelORna62

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122978968#Comment_122978968

Assets minus debts.

This is Personal Wealth, nothing to do with the govt or businesses.

thereiver

Young voters are turning to right wing party's or else not voting due to rising house prices and the immigration crisis in many eu country's .there's an awful lot of rich people who live in London

Gdp is not a good index to measure Irelands economy on as many tech company's have their headquarters here .Germany has a massive problem with immigration and failing to compete with the Chinese car industry.

j62

Anyone notice how downbeat the sky news presenters were after the fireworks display last night (which seemed smaller/shorter than usual)?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123005860#Comment_123005860

I didn't watch it. Were they? How so?

creeper1

As I predicted in a thread I started many years ago "the UK is finished" .

The UK is indeed finished.

There's a whole plethora of YouTube videos of young people cursing the place and leaving.

They know how bad they have got it and that there's no future.

Here's but one example of many, many

https://youtu.be/zzstEpSeuwU?si=pPlGUgXo5RV8DsR-

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123005965#Comment_123005965

The UK is finished because some people made videos saying so? Not a convincing argument.

Randycove

Kate seems to be upset that she pays taxes and has to pay back her student loans. Does she expect to not pay taxes and get free third level education?

Are there magic money trees in Hong Kong, is that why she has gone there?