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Dutch car crashed into family member on wrong side of road

  • 07-11-2024 1:18pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭


    hi, I’d like some advise if possible. A few weeks ago my dad was crashed into going around a countryside bend, a Dutch family were on the wrong side of the road. Big accident, they had to be cut out of car and airlifted to hospital etc. They admitted fault at the time ( obviously ). So this has been going on weeks with Axa insurance. I’ve never seen such slow and bad communications in all my life. Even my dad’s solicitor is useless.


    Anyways today my dad got a letter to say the Dutch guy is putting in a claim AGAINST my dad. Like wtf! We rang the underwriter is Axa but again she couldn’t take our call. Axa said they know nothing about this counter claim or any letter sent out even though we have it in black and white. Solictor said he will “look into it” but alas we have heard nothing yet.

    Is this normal for someone who was totally at fault to claim??? We are so shocked.

    Thanks



«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,054 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    Send a copy of the letter to your dad’s insurer, it’s their responsibility to deal with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭micar




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,520 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Try not to worry too much this type of thing is not uncommon.

    People who have admitted liability in the immediate aftermath of a collision change their mind later.

    Did AGS attend ?

    As the other posters have pointed out the insurance companies will deal with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,975 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Pretty common in the Netherlands to have legal insurance that would do anything possible to try reduce your liability, so this is likely standard. Bounce it on to the insurer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    the letter came from my dads insurance from axa saying the Dutch guy made a claim against my dads insurance but then axa said they don’t know anything about it. It’s so odd.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,892 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Send a copy of the letter to whoever said Axa know nothing about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    on the letter is the name of the underwriter who is dealing with the claim. Mum rang her but she can’t take her call… it’s so disappointing the way my parents are being treated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    just to reiterate sorry I might not have been clear but the letter about the counterclaim came from my dads underwriter in Axa to say that the Dutch guy has made a claim against my dads insurance and it might affect my dads no claims bonus. That’s all the letter said. We rang the underwriter whom we were talking to last week and she didn’t say anything about a counter claim but it came in the post today. She has not yet rang us back since my mum rang her at 9am this morning about it!!!

    Post edited by Slick666 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,696 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    OP, the person you're talking to in Axa is not an 'underwriter', they are a claims handling person. Why does your father have a solicitor involved at this early stage?

    If your father is sued arising out of this accident, Axa will take over the case, engage lawyers to defend the case and pay their fees. What they will not do is pay for any legal services your father engages independently. In other words, your father will be footing the bill for that solicitor out of his own pocket.

    Let Axa look after this. Look at it this way, it is they who will have to pay out if the counter claim is successful so you need to stop acting as if you are on your own here. Axa are are not going to roll over and pay the other guy if it was their fault.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    actually the person in axa is an underwriter, it’s written under her name on the letter. Regarding a solicitor involved at such an “early stage” - the week after the accident my dad had a call from a solicitor working for axa that wanted to take care of the case. Axa initiated the solicitor not my dad.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,696 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Well that's fine then. But according to you, both of them are useless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    yes they are both useless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭micar


    OP …. You shouldn't be naming the AXA employee here.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    So to be clear AXA are not underwriters and the solicitor is not working for you. Yes AXA does have people with the job title of underwriter, but it is not what we understand to be underwriting. And no they are not useless, they are working in the best interests of their employer and that is not you!

    Accidents like this can take months or even longer to sort out especially if there are large sums of money involved and two legal jurisdictions involved and counter claims are just part of the process. How about your dad, should he be making a claim for personal injury?

    You are going to have to accept that the pace is going to be slower on this than you have been expecting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    where have I named the person?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,975 ✭✭✭✭L1011




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    what do you mean axa does not have our interest in mind?? We are their clients / customers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    omg thanks for telling me! My head is melted with all this…. I didn’t even know I named her! Yikes. Time to just leave it alone I think, if my parents get nothing there’s nothing I can do. Insurance companies always win in the end. Mods can close this thread. Cheers all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,901 ✭✭✭Damien360


    AXA want to reduce the liability to themselves. They don't want to payout and neither does the other insurer. Expect a low ball offer for the car, and a fight over medical/fire tender charges etc. You are their client because you paid a premium but that's for insurance cover, not legal cover. It will take months to resolve, always does.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,696 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Your premium does cover legal costs, especially to defend a civil claim for damages arising out of an accident. For which, ultimately, the insurance company would be liable.

    Some policies will also pay to defend you on a (criminal) charge of dangerous or careless driving. Because getting you off a charge like that will leave the issue of liability up in the air and subject to negotiation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,099 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    Of course your parents will get something. It's just it'll take a while. Longer than ye'd be hoping but that's the way things go when there's complications.

    Ye need to be putting a claim in on the Dutch crowds insurance for the car and any personal injuries suffered. I'd imagine AXA will do this for ye if ye tell them too.

    There could well be a court case over all of this especially if the guards attended the scene and there is now a doubt on fault due to the Dutch crowd changing their mind. If it's a road with no road markings this will complicate things further but if the guards attended the scene and knows the story it'll eventually work itself out in court or settled prior to getting that far.

    The main thing is to remain somewhat relaxed and realise it's not going to be a quick process unfortunately.

    Your parents may also be entitled to claim for car hire off the Dutch crowds insurance while they are waiting for all this to be sorted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,927 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Very similar thing happened to me a few years ago. My insurance did all the dealings with the other guys insurance and I got a check for the price of my written off car.

    The guards were worse than useless. They refused to write anything down and just kept saying its up to the insurance companies to battle it out. If it went to court the guards would not have been able to give any input, they made sure of that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    thanks for all your replies guys, it’s appreciated. I was just talking to my dad and we were talking about the absolute cheek of the Dutch guy, he comes to Ireland, drives on the wrong side of the road and nearly kills my dad and then he makes a claim AGAINST my dad. Like you couldn’t make it up. I’m sure his claim will be thrown out but he has the audacity to think he can make a claim… omg! Even if his insurance company are pushing the claim, how do they think they can claim when the guy was on the wrong side of the road. Mind boggling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,503 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Not excusing the Dutch driver at all. Irish people also drive on the wrong side of the road on bends and think it's ok. This incident just shows how dangerous it is, and how it can lead to serious injuries.

    @Slick666 , hope your dad is ok. Leave this with the insurance company and garda collision investigation, which I am sure they must have done given the seriousness of the incident (cut from vehicle /air lift to hospital). If the Dutch car was on the wrong side of the road, blame will be with the driver, no matter what they claim or what their insurance company submit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    yep they admitted they were in the wrong at the scene and the guards knew they were in the wrong too. It just threw us all today when the letter came. Thanks for your reply.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,430 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Remember, anyone can sue anyone in relation to anything. It doesn't mean it has any merit or will go anywhere. Let the insurers deal with it, its their job and it takes time.

    It's a principle of insurance that you do not admit liability no matter what, so this is probably just a move by the Dutch insurer to get the question of liability in play again, but it doesn't change the facts.

    There's no point trying to get a case involving injuries settled quickly, it takes time for injuries to heal and know whether there are any longer term consequences. Wishing your dad all the best.

    If it's a road with no road markings this will complicate things further

    The rule of the road is still keep left.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    cheers for that. Ya hopefully it’s them trying to get liability into play again. I asked my dad about the road markings and he said there’s a continuous white line there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 827 ✭✭✭JIdontknow


    You have referenced that they "admitted they were in the wrong", but this admission doesn't necessarily have any real legal basis so don't get bogged down in that detail. And also your insurer will want the cheapest outcome, they represent you but have their own intentions / agenda and that is to limit the liability to themselves as has been mentioned, so it may be a case you need to push back with them, etc.

    Hope everything works out and most importantly that everyone is ok and healthy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭boardlady


    I work in this area. You need to adopt a more laisez faire attitude to this. It will take time and it will work through the processes with our without your involvement/support/indignation! You will give yourself an ulcer if you are this upset about the process at this early stage. Your dad may need to bring a personal injuries action in the future as he may yet discover that he has been injured in some way. Otherwise, AXA will deal with this for your dad. The Guards will be pretty ineffectual - they do not engage in what they deem to be civil matters. If the Dutch family were travelling on the incorrect side of the road, then you really do not need to worry about liability. It is clearly in your father's favour and that will work through in the end. Answer all AXA's questions as they arise and it will just work its way along. It will take a long time though so if your father can afford at all to put himself on the road again in any sort of a run-around car, then that would be best for him as then he can relax about the insurance process and just let it run its course. Best of luck to you all - its a pain in the hole for everyone I admit.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,430 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Not just a civil matter though when at least two laws were broken. Or at least it shouldn't be.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭boardlady


    Not much point trying to prosecute a foreign national for a driving offence ..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭mondeoman72


    Just reading this, I notice one main thing. You mention he has made a claim against your dad. I thought, when you take out a policy, you give the insurance company or their agents, the right to act on your behalf.

    Accordingly, it may not even be the driver. This could be standard argue and deflect by the insurance company, standard procedure to limit their liability.

    If you do something wrong, the first defense is just deny everything……



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    hi. Thanks for your reply. This is just so confusing… so I believe axa ( my dad’s insurance ) will pay for his crashed car as my dad had fully comp. And yeah we got a letter from our contact / underwriter in axa saying that the Dutch man has made a claim against dad and it might affect my dads no claim bonus. We have tried ringing her in axa since we got the letter but she won’t reply. Solicitor has not replied either. It’s such a nightmare.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    Well if I went over there and nearly killed someone I’m sure they wouldn’t pat me on the head and say see ya later.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    what 2 laws would have been broken? The guy on the wrong side of the road so driving without due care and??? Sorry we have been given hardly no advise so I’m trying to do this for my parents.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    thanks. How does one go about making a claim though? Axa have only spoke about the car cost so far.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    thanks for all messages, I’ve read them all but can’t reply individually. But I’ve read them all and read them out to my parents.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,927 ✭✭✭jackboy


    It should be the other guys insurance paying for your dad's car which won't impact his no claims bonus.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,696 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    OP, what did the Gardai do at the scene? Was there any question of arresting the Dutch driver for dangerous driving? Was anyone in the Dutch car injured and/or brought to hospital?

    You say there was a continuous white line on the road, that removes any excuse about overtaking and places blame firmly with the Dutch driver. But you can forget about his admission of culpability at the scene, that has zero value as people can claim they were in shock and not in possession of all the facts etc. etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,042 ✭✭✭✭Sadb


    Were they completely on the wrong side or were they over the centre line a bit? Like was the crash head on?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,099 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    Ya rules of the road are clear on which side to keep. However as I said when there's no road markings it becomes a 50/50 road and it becomes much more difficult to prove the other driver wasn't keeping left.

    Thankfully this isn't the case here so the Dutch driver should rightly get all the blame especially when it was a solid white line they were crossing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,412 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    I don't understand why ye are all taking this so personally? leave it to the insurance companies, that's what you pay insurance for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,042 ✭✭✭✭Sadb


    If impact was to the right though and there are no dash cams, how could you prove who was over the line? Most likely it would be split



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,099 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    Marks on the road, final resting positions of the cars etc. Although you are depending heavily on the write up the guards did when they attended the crash and analysed whatever evidence there was.

    In this scenario I'd imagine they have it pretty well documented that the OP's father was blameless however it could possibly be split if the guards don't have fault apportioned totally to the Dutch driver. Very hard be totally sure until everything is settled.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    AXA will pay your days claim, then they will go after the Dutch guy and his insurance to get their money back. Regarding the no claims bonus, the fact that there's a claim against your Dad will affect his no claims bonus until this is resolved. It doesn't matter wether it's a valid claim or if it will a tally lead to a cost for AXA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,575 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Right now “Dutch guy” was allegedly driving on the wrong side of the road - after that, let the insurance company do their job your fathers premiums are paying them to do - if your father feels he needs independent legal advice for whatever reason then off he goes - you don’t know what happened - only what you were told - by your dad- take a step back and relax (not meant to be condescending btw) - reports from the crash scene along with damage to both cars along with any photos or dash cam footage should tell hopefully the key aspects of this story



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,430 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    (a) we live in a European Union with common driving licences

    (b) somone who had to be cut out of a car isn't going to be on the next flight home.

    But this has an awful smell off it of gardai who simply don't care and can't be arsed.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,430 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    This is nonsense. It'll be perfectly clear from the position of the vehicles and the marks they made on the road.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,776 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Dashcams are cheap.

    Should be a standard device, back and front, on all modern cars.

    And no, gdpr does not come into it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Slick666


    my dad had to go to the Garda station and give a statement. The Dutch guy said to the guards at the scene he was in the wrong. They also breathalised my dad on the scene and did a test for drugs. It’s actually quite typical they forgot to breathalise the Dutch guy at the scene so they had to go into the hospital to do it!! Didn’t forgot my dad though even though he was on the right side of the road.



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