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F1 2024 - Round 21 - Brazil - Sao Paulo - Interlagos

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,124 ✭✭✭✭klose


    I mean going by how Bernie Collins was talking about it ( the most qualified of all people ) Lando really got away with that one, had what transpired didn’t happen (red flag) he essentially shaved a lap off the race for free, if the race went different and he bet max who was chasing him down till the final lap would it have been dealt with differently?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,898 ✭✭✭Inviere


    I'm not Max's biggest fan by any stretch, but that was a championship winning drive. In a race where even seasoned vets were making mistakes, Max was utterly faultless. He had speed, was overtaking, made no errors, and was overall impeccable.

    Lando on the other hand, made some notable errors and didn't appear to handle the pressure well at all. I was rooting for him to do well and to make a fight out of it, but he just didn't really deliver.

    One thing I will say, and I've been saying for a long long time now, is that free tire changes under a red flag are bitterly cruel for some, and stupidly lucky for others...they really need a more fair way to handle them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Can say the same about Max. Not a fan but he elevated himself to greatness here. The best of the best excel on days like this.

    He was radio to GP about it being needless to set a lead because a yellow will bunch everyone up. Then he goes setting those fastest laps anyway to prove he doesn't need the luck, while his WDC competition were locking up and going off track.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 700 CMod ✭✭✭✭LIGHTNING


    Think the Mercs got away with murder on that penalty. Leaves the doors open for some really shady changes in the future, all they have to say is

    "Oh it was kinda tricky in the grid so eh yeah thats why we did it"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,186 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    Max truly showed why he is the greatest driver since Senna yesterday. He had taken knock after knock and to produce that drive showed his genius.

    Not withstanding winning from 17th on the grid, to not making a single mistake, driving around flawlessly practically on slicks before red flag, then banging in fastest lap after fastest lap, that was the greatest performance by a driver i have seen probably in my lifetime.

    I'm delighted for the Brits too, absolutely killed them. I read through the comments section on the respective BBC article about the race.

    I vivdly remember the shite talk about when they thought when Hamilton won from the back of the grid at Interlagos being the greatest drive of all time. For a start, that was from 10th and also on a dry track in a Merc rocket ship.

    I'm also delighted for McClaren that MV showed who the boss is. Lost so much respect for Lando with his bitterness.

    Charlie and Oscar will win a WC before him imo.

    Couldn't be more happy that Maxi has all but won title number 4!!! Simply lovely



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,346 ✭✭✭PsychoPete


    I honestly don't what the stewards were thinking not handing out sporting penalties for Norris or Mercedes. Checo got a ten second penalty of being outside the gridbox in Mexico but Norris breaking the start procedure is so a 5k fine and reprimand while Leclerc got the same fine for swearing in a press conference. The stewarding is ridiculous, there's absolutely no consistency



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,299 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Yes it's makes no sense at all.

    Delighted for Max I think the WEC just his new. Very very slim that Lando cam win it now.

    Labfo really has a lot of growing up to do. I liked him when he started at first but ye he needs to kearn to make less mistakes and whinge less.

    Max is the best driver since Ayrton Senna and could go on to be even better than him but we also must not forget that Max was once like Lando too making stupid mistakes whinging and bullying his way through the grid on the race track. He has matured a lot in the last few years do.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭Longing


    Just one other point from yesterday race. There was no DRS. I found myself saying what an overtake from drivers later on the brakes. It felt great compared to DRS enabled.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    At what point did the green light switch on after orange lights started flashing or did it go green at all? Did everyone break that rule or did some wait? It felt like more than just 4 or 5 broke the rules so if Norris was going to get a penalty, they were all going to get one.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    Who was the 'independent' tyre inspector with the officials bib on cheering and clapping in the Red Bull garage when Verstappen overtook?

    Is he supposed to be a neutral observer checking for water in the tyres?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,186 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    Yes, the first 5 or 6 should all have gotten a penalty. The inconsistency in penalties dished out over the last few races has been ridiculous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Didn't see the green lights switch on again. Some waited, but were then told by their engineers that they were clear to go on. Not least because they would have ended up a lap down if they'd stayed on the grid. The stewards decided that just Norris and Russell were culpable, everyone else was put in the position of either go or be a lap down, so exonerated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Meanwhile Lance Stroll has a good look at the gravel and the tarmac and decides the gravel would be quicker.

    https://x.com/g_pedro01/status/1853099816760324521



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,804 ✭✭✭✭dulpit




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭Longing


    No Green. Four drivers Norris, Russell, Lawson and Yuki went through more or less a red light, yes it was orange. But they could see Start Aborted flashing in front of them. McLaren team radio even said it to Norris before he took off from the grid. The other drivers were all on team radio asking why the front-runners took off. They were saying the four cars broke the rule, which the FIA agreed. But the punishment or lack off clearly highlights what politics are going on behind the scenes.

    This alone is harming the sport, which made it even more evident when no British media were at the driver conference. Clearly, this weekend shows there should be an independent body governing penalties.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,186 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    Couldn't agree more. Massive agenda against Max and RB. I have long since given up on them tossers at Sky but i purposely watched the replay to see the reactions, and in fairness Croft and Karun did sing Max praise for what he achieved. I didn't see or hear anything of what the presenters said. Any praise would have been given through gritted teeth.

    Anyway., title is all but sealed, and although number 5 might be a struggle next year, it would be great to see LeClerc win it if Max doesn't



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,481 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Checo being out of position in his grid box gave him an unfair advantage off the start and affected the order of the race. Lando setting off on an extra formation lap before the green light was stupid but didn't have any effect on the race. I agree he got off super light with the reprimand but the appropriate punishment would be a grid penalty for Vegas, not tweaking the results of the Brazilian Grand Prix.

    This too shall pass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,750 ✭✭✭weisses


    What About safety issues ? Equipment on track etc? checo being 30 cm out of position doesn't give him any advantage. Jump start yes this nehh



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,186 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    Is it still under investigation? I'll have any money he doesn't get any kind of penalty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Investigation is finished. Norris and Russell got €5,000 fines and a reprimand (might be a point on their licences too, but haven't seen that).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,842 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    This race for Max is like Senna at Donington and Schumacher at 96 Spain. The three greatest drivers I've been lucky enough to see in my lifetime (albeit mostly posthumous highlights for Senna).

    Max in clearly the third best car now , and not having the best car for most of the season, is now pretty much confirmed as winning WDC. The second of the red bull center drivers to win 4 in a row.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,481 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    That's why I believe the punishment was too light and I believe he should be facing a grid penalty for the Las Vegas Grand Prix

    This too shall pass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,186 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    Of course. You know if it was Max, you'd have the paddock screaming blue murder about Max "The Cheat"

    This title is even more sweeter than his first. And that's saying something



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,804 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Edd Straw on The Race podcast commented on the lack of British media in the press conference. He said there was only around 10 journos from UK at the race (the TV media aren't included in this) and between the mixed zone and so on, it's quite normal for them to miss some of the press sessions, especially with the length of the day they had had. I wouldn't be reading anything into whether the British media attended or not (although Max's comment was funny).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,186 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    Just reading Lando's comments here and i'm surprised with them. They sound like something Brown would say. A but pathetic and sad really. Hope Piastri puts him in his place next sreason.

    Lando Norris believes title rival Max Verstappen "got a bit lucky"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    That's funny. The 'luck' for Max was that he was dropped out of qualifying and so ended up with more intermediate tyres than the drivers at the front of the grid, so didn't need to come in early like Norris and Russell who were on used ones.

    And Norris wanted to come in during the VSC, so that was terribly unlucky for him. 🤣



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 700 CMod ✭✭✭✭LIGHTNING


    You think Max wanted to be knocked out of Q2 and start P17? I swear some folks are living in a dream world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Sarcasm appears to be a new experience for you. Enjoy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭Gamb!t


    Not the first time Norris’s nice guy mask has slipped.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46 Barrett


    Checo needs to go, even one or two good races are not enough now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,346 ✭✭✭PsychoPete


    Checo should have been gone at the end of 2023, anyone can see he's out of his depth and looks like he's trying too hard. Will be interesting to see what happens



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,299 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭Ultimate Gowlbag


    Norris getting the Hamilton treatment from RB fans for daring to challenge Max or just being from the same country as the broadcaster is actually funny to watch again…..I love the sport and wouldnt begrudge most drivers a win as long as i get a good race which makes the football like tribalism funny to watch from a distance!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,488 ✭✭✭RoryMac


    Its not just the Max fans at this, the anti-Max.fans online are just as bad as are the Hamilton and LeClerc fans.

    Best ignored the lot of them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Rumours of Checout! can resume now that the WDC is effectively over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    I think lawson has the measure of checo if they were both in the same car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,806 ✭✭✭quokula


    Couldn't watch this live but managed to avoid spoilers and watch it in full, very glad I did and didn't just look up the results.

    Schumacher-esque drive from Verstappen there and I don't say that lightly. There were points in the race when he was two seconds per lap faster than his rivals. I'd say it was karma after all the crap that's been unduly thrown at him lately but that undersells the amount of work and talent that went into earning that result. Amazing pace, quality overtakes, never put a wheel out of place in the entire race.

    Great performance from Ocon and Gasly too. Gave me flashbacks to Panis in the Ligier at Monaco when Esteban was controlling the pace in the middle part of the race. Obviously the car was well set up for the conditions but hats off to the drivers - Ocon has a whole host of impressive wet performances to his name now so it's not luck or coincidence. By far the most underrated pairing on the grid - I find drivers often get overlooked when you have two quality performers in a **** car. Much easier to look good when you have a Latifi or a Sargent next to you.

    Slightly bittersweet though knowing that one race for Alpine has undone months of hard work and performance gains from Haas in the championship but that's the nature of sport sometimes.

    What isn't, or shouldn't be the nature of the sport is the wildly inconsistent application of the rules from the stewards. Breaking a red light is about the most open and shut case of a clear sporting penalty that exists in motorsport. Extremely dangerous too leading cars down into what marshalls are expecting to be a completely closed circuit. Drivers have been disqualified for breaking red lights in the past, never mind getting away with a smaller penalty than other people have been given for using an expletive in a press conference.

    Then you also have the Mercedes with another clear cut, slam dunk case of rule breaking with their tyre pressure change. The excuse given here was that they didn't have enough time to legally set up the car (due to the chaos caused by Norris making up his own rules), but this doesn't hold up when 18 other competitors managed to stick to the regulations just fine in the same circumstances.

    There is a massive stewarding problem in F1 right now, they need proper qualified professional stewarding rather than the current amateur position that invites the likes of Johnny Herbert in who are only there to run it like their own little dictatorships, making up new precedents and throwing away old ones on a whim with complete disregard for due process and fairness. It can't continue like this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,554 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Whats with the rule of no help from marshalls? Crazy that Hulk was dq, is it not normal for cars to continue after a little bit of help? Supercars etc it certainly is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    It's a long standing rule in F1. No idea what the origins are, but probably safety.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 685 ✭✭✭jayo44


    No in F1 once a marshal has to touch the car it's game over. It's always been this way. My first memory of it is the fairmount hairpin in Monaco many years ago when cars didn't have reverse and I'm nearly sure it was Schumacher that got stuck up against the barrier and just needed a push back. He asked marshals to give him a push and they basically said if we touch you your race is over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,806 ✭✭✭quokula


    I remember it coming up a bunch of times in the 90s / early 2000s. To be honest it’s been so long since it happened that I forgot about it or assumed they’d scrapped it, I guess the teams and drivers know they’re going to be DQed and don’t bother to try so we haven’t seen it come up in a long time.

    I think it makes sense as a rule. Otherwise you have drivers beckoning to Marshalls asking them to come help and you have a conflict of interest for the Marshalls between prioritising safety and getting involved in the competition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,488 ✭✭✭RoryMac


    I think it came up at Zhou's crash at Silverstone where his car got trapped between the fence and the barriers. Russell went to help him but couldn't do the restart because the stewards touched his car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,625 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Until 2007 the rule was if you kept the engine running you could be helped. Remember Hamilton got lifted back on track by a crane in the European Grand Prix and was allowed race on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,625 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Btw serious props top anyone who can name the driver that was leading the race when Hamilton binned it!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,904 ✭✭✭✭skipper_G




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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 700 CMod ✭✭✭✭LIGHTNING


    I get the lads getting away with the start infringement but I cannot believe Merc got away with the tyres. If I was another team I'd be abusing that until the cows came home in future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    I could be wrong on this, but I believe the technical infringement is against Pirelli's guidance. The tyre pressures are supposed to be adjusted off the car, I presume this is to remove the weight loading factor for whatever reason Pirelli believe is necessary.

    George Russell said after the race that it wasn't effective. From that and the off-car requirement, I'm guessing that they couldn't actually set the desired pressure correctly. I suppose some calculation would be needed to extrapolate an on-car pressure from an off-car pressure.

    From some of the shots I've seen, it looked like they were trying to reduce the pressure. Which would make sense in a wet race.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,115 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    It was that incident that got the rules changed. Back then there were loads more gravel traps and they got pushed out all the time. It was if you kept the engine running you could head of again. I remember them saying Hamilton kept it running so that's why he was allowed to continue. Little did they know the FIA reailised they were now taking the piss and just banned it when someone touches a car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,357 ✭✭✭jacool


    The BBC did a "best F1 wet-weather drive" poll. Me, and a few others, it appears, remember Jenson Button, but it can't be that many years ago, surely?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭lolie


    Also at the same track in 2003 Michael Schumacher was helped back on track by marshalls after contact with Montoya, i seemed to remember you could be helped by marshalls as long as the car was deemed to be in a dangerous place. I thought that was still the case but obviously not.



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