Revenue Tax Specialist Higher Executive Officer 2024

VANS_95

Hi all, I created this post to for the HEO Tax Specialist Revenue 2024 competition.

336699

The Union disagree with this competition and held discussions to stop it being advertised. It will be interesting to see how this pans out…

yellowbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122724713#Comment_122724713

Why's that out of interest? Do they want them to take them from the interdepartmental competition?

koifish

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122724713#Comment_122724713

Could I ask what's the goss? I'm an EO, have plenty (project & team) management experience and always been interested in Revenue and tax (did a small accounting cert prior and hopefully studying Tax Technician next year) but was spooked by the amount of qualifications listed. Not totally surprising I guess since they need to be tax specialists and maybe they're catering more to the private sector. 🤔

I'd just be concerned if I eventually got a promotion to HEO (in my current dept in Dublin) and wanted to use mobility later but lacked the technical chops for Rev.

NewCorkLad

Anyone any idea what would happen if you were successful in this competition as an existing public servant would you have the same rights as if you took the promotion in an interdepartment competition. As in if it didn't work out would you be able to go back to your previous position?

Cushtie

So I take it this panel will be filled mostly with persons already working in Revenue rather than candidates from the private sector. Sent in an application anyway.

StevenToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122724713#Comment_122724713

What was the Unions problem?

Did they not want an Open Competition?

Lottie125

I have also sent in an application. Currently in private practice. Applied for a different revenue job just over a month ago and took 3 weeks to hear back that i hadn't been shortlisted to an interview, just so people who have applied have a rough time frame of how long they take for the initial application

Cushtie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122777367#Comment_122777367

Cheers, I'm not expecting to be stort listed for interview based on Tax experience but submitted application anyway. You never know.

336699

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122777311#Comment_122777311

No, the Union’s position is that HEO grade was not subject to open recruitment except in specific specialist posts. 

Revenue wanted to run this as an Open Competition under the Civil Service Action Plan. Fórsa has previously raised their objection centrally to the inclusion of open recruitment of HEOs in this action plan. Fórsa maintain there are plenty of capable officers within Revenue who can fill the vacancies that they say exist in these areas, either through promotion or mobility. 

Fórsa also maintain the belief that these are not specialist roles. This work has been performed by many officers over the years without the need to call them specialists.

I have to agree that these are not specialised roles at all.

BhoyRayzor

A bizarre 'AO plus' competition, the eligibility requirement of an AO comp with the benefits of being a HEO. They are clearly trying to attract from the private sector but can't do it with the pay offered of an AO and can't/won't at AP level, which is what you would class as a 'tax specialist' and not HEO in general. Although what is being accepted as being a relevant qualification doesn't necessarily lend itself to this new title either.

Seeing as both grades are viewed as interchangeable, frustratingly for any AO having to replace a HEO and do the same work for less money and holidays, they probably want a halfway house between AO and AP without generalists, who meet the two year criteria for promotion, having to be put in to tax positions.

They will likely run another internal HEO comp, minus the 'tax specialist' tag, so they can assign from two different panels - general and tax.

BhoyRayzor

https://forsatradeunion.newsweaver.com/designtest/1tpc82yhyq9xvx09ge10df?email=true&lang=en&a=2&p=64901292&t=30063856

"Following significant engagement between Fórsa, Revenue and the Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (DPENDPDR) Revenue has now clearly and formally stated that the competition is not an attempt to achieve open HEO recruitment and that any such discussions would be conducted nationally with (DPENDPDR), in the context of the Civil Service Sectoral Action Plan."

How is an open HEO competition not an attempt to achieve open HEO recruitment?

is that a button

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122800674#Comment_122800674

Thank you for sharing. This has made an interesting read. I wonder where exactly this now leaves the competition? I mean given the contents of the union brief it would suggest the comp should be cancelled & an internal comp launched instead to fill vacant roles. However, given the number of people on here who have applied, is it possible for them to cancel it at such a late stage especially given that applications have been submitted? .. If this comp does proceed, I would be very interested to hear how many applicants actually get placed as I fear it could be too controversial to allow open candidates into HEO roles now. 🤔 Will be interesting to see how it all works out...

yellowbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122803101#Comment_122803101

From reading the above link, it looks like the union has backed down.

Maybe I'm not picking it up right. But it looks to me like the union are letting them go ahead but saying don't do it again.

336699

From an email issued 22/10/2024 -

All

 

Following on from my email below I want to give members an update on the current position

 

On Wednesday last week there was a FORSA Civil Service Division Consultative meeting at which Eamonn Donnelly, Deputy General Secretary & head of Civil Service Division of FORSA, gave an update on the current position.

 

He outlined that he had written to DPENDR that morning outlining FORSAs objections to the running of any open HEO competitions under the Civil Service Action Plan.

 

In this letter

1. He noted that the processing of the current competition as advertised by Revenue is in dispute.
2. He advised DEPNDR that as Revenue has claimed that the Sectoral Action Plan permitted Open HEO recruitment, the dispute is wider than the Revenue remit, and, de facto, is now a Civil Service wide dispute.
3. He noted that the consultation and dispute resolution processes set out in the Public Service Agreement have not been observed or utilised by management.
4. He outlined that the way in which matters have now been conducted can only inhibit or prevent any wider discussions on recruitment processes in the context of the sectoral action plan.
5. He concluded with the advice that the Fórsa Civil Service Divisional Executive Committee will now consider staging a civil service wide ballot, among the grades affected (up to and including HEO/AO), for industrial action if the current circumstances remain without resolution

 

Eamonn Donnelly will go to the Divisional Executive this Thursday (17th October) and ask for their permission to conduct the ballot as noted above in point 5.

 

Last Friday (11th October) the Revenue Executive Grades Committee met to discuss this situation. At this meeting there was overwhelming support of the response from FORSA and the committee has instructed its 3 Divisional Executive delegates to vote in favour of the proposal for a ballot.

 

Members need to understand that this situation is not solely about the opening up of HEO posts to open competitions. That is just the beginning of things.

 

The Civil Service Action Plan includes various ideas that departments want to implement. But these ideas do not necessarily improve the working conditions of the employee.

 

For example Revenues have a number of stated goals

1. engagement on options to support the extension of service delivery over a 7 day period
2. Increased use of AI with its associated upskilling and/or reassigning because of it
3. Co-operation with the development of strategies for further professionalisation of functional expertise e.g. ICT, HR, taxation, data analytics, legal, etc.

 

I attach a copy of the Civil Service Action Plan for reference. Please take time to read the whole document.

As you will see from it there are a number of changes which are being proposed which would have an impact on us all. And it should also be noted that while an action might be listed under a particular department it does not mean that it wont happen in other departments/offices. Once something is implemented in a particular area it could be implemented across the civil service.

 

Also if an item is not assigned to a particular department it can be read as being discussed for implementation across the whole civil service.

 

As things develop I will update members on what is happening.

 

Kind Regards

Cushtie

Be interesting to see how this develops.

StevenToast

Id say the competition will be shìtcanned...

Daria321

Anyone get word back yet?

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122803101#Comment_122803101

Yes, those figures should be made public for all competitions. People invest a lot of time into applications and it would give some idea of whether it’s a waste of time.

hamburgham

“They haven’t gone away you know”.

Lottie125

I've not heard anything back yet.. checked my emails and the revenue job i applied for in October it took them 22 days to email me back to say i wasn't successful. So another week left to wait based on that.

StevenToast

There is now an Internal Competition for the same job.

What is going on?

Lottie125

Surely they will need to let the external applicants know if this position is no longer available to external applicants.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122846873#Comment_122846873

That decision may not be made yet, it probably depends on ghe quality of the internal applicants.

Lottie125

Possibly will be a long wait to hear back.

doc22

They will prob run two panels one from ext and one from internal sequencing. AO and HEO's can't apply to be tax specialists on the internal one. AO's could apply for HEO posts in the past.

is that a button

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122851829#Comment_122851829

Thanks for the update! This is interesting...the fact you mention AO's & HEO's can't apply via internal panel. External applications have closed so they can't apply through that now either. I am assuming this then leaves opportunity for EO's & CO's to apply via internal comp.. However I wouldn't have thought these grades would have "tax specialist" knowledge. As far as I am aware EO's generally undertake the Tax Technician course with Institute of Tax. I am not aware of EO's completing CTA unless they commit to it themselves privately. Perhaps Revenue are looking to accept specific tax experienced internal EO's for the role, but I imagine these would be quite few. Surely the internal comp should allow all existing AO's & HEO's to apply. Or could the stipulation to the internal comp just be a way to somewhat "justify" the fact they opened comp as external?! By suggesting that existing staff are not "qualified enough". Will be interesting to see how it all works out!

doc22

There's a low enough standard to qualify for the internal comp, I'd guess CTAs would be AO/HEO/AP already. It might be the case that if the union are going by the agreement with DPER on open comp(limited HEO open positions and mostly reserved for internal) fine, HR will work on the basis the AO/HEO won't qualify for HEO positions as per DPER guidance too…..

Daria321

The Internal Diploma run by Revenue and UL could be level 7? Depends on how many have completed it below HEO/AO.

dylanyahoo

I think the Diploma is gone now and replaced by the ITI Tax Technician. Executive Officers do that.

But calling someone a Tax Expert because they've done the Tax Technician is like calling someone a Car Expert because they passed their driving test.

delricyo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122854647#Comment_122854647

Diplomas are never the same level as a degree (Pass degree is level 7, honours is level 8)

Postgraduate diplomas are level 9

Edit: Scrap that. I think a diploma could now be a level 7

delricyo

This is a confusing one.

How many staff at CO/EO level have a degree level qualifiication in taxation? Surely, they would be at AO level by now? If I had a degree in taxation, I wouldnt be going in at CO level. At the minimum, I would be going in at EO and applying for every AO comp until I am eligible for an internal HEO.

The BA in tax is taken by auditors at junior management level who are aiming for AP. It is handy as you are also eligible to apply for the open AP Tax specialist with that qualification.

There is also no distinction between a HEO and HEO tax specialist. Once you are in, you will be seen as any other HEO.

From what I hear, the unions were crying out for an internal competition as they have many EO/CO union members who are anxious to get HEO. Has this backfired, I wonder? That is, you complain about an open competition - then an internal competition is run with similar entry requirements?

delricyo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122855000#Comment_122855000

I agree. The tax tech gives an overview to some of the taxes, and is generally good to get you in the door of a tax area of the organisation. But you certainly wont be an expert when you pass.

A level 7 or higher would generally get you into an expert role. But then again, a degree without experience is kind of useless?

VANS_95

I went in as an EO two years ago with a level 8 Tax degree and I am currently doing the level 9 CTA so you’d be surprised I’ve found alot having level 8 tax, law and accounting degrees coming in at EO. I’m only eligible for internal comps recently

StevenToast

AOs not allowed to go for the Internal comp.

Very harsh.

is that a button

Check yer emails! Invites for stage 1 testing have issued...Best of Luck everyone! We'll see how it all plays out..

Lottie125

Same. I wonder what it will be like.

WednesdayMorning

Anyone know what tests are used?

Lottie125

I saw on a different boards thread that they often use the online tests when they have a lot of applications. Otherwise they seem to go straight to interview stage.

Seal100

Has everyone been called forward for assessment tests? Wonder have many people applied for this position.

StevenToast

I would imagine everyone got an invite…they are weeding out the dummies....

channelsurfer2

any examples with the tests? i dont want to log on yet without doing some sample tests from similiar providers

Seal100

Yes, you should have received a link for preparation on email, or just go to the Aon website.

Also once you login to assessments they allow few mins familiarisation for each.

Best of luck to everyone taking them.

NewCorkLad

That was brutal, I've done a few of them before but felt like the time absolutely flew by for the verbal and numerical on this one. So much information to try get through.

channelsurfer2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122886157#Comment_122886157

yes very hard to do.. hopefully everyone else found it the same

Cushtie

Same here.

Daria321

Same, The Maths was very difficult and the questions were vague. Found verbal and chat assess ok.

civilservant01

I found the tests very hard and over so quick just wondering would anyone know the difference between this competition and the heo auditor one as ran by public jobs?

rosmoljar

hi, did anyone hear back from revenue?

Cushtie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122946558#Comment_122946558

Nothing here yet.

Lottie125

Nothing yet. I think they have to have got back to people by the 18th.