Forced to get legal rep for small claims court

Firblog

Hi,

I had a case in the small claims court today - when I say I it was my v small company claiming against a much larger company. I was there to represent us, and they had a solicitor. When the case was called the solicitor raised an issue with the Judge saying that as 'I' was a limited company I was required to have legal representation, as result of Supreme Court decision. The judge seemed shocked at this and queried what case it was; was told Allied Irish Bank Plc v Aqua Fresh Fish Ltd.

Well it was agreed to put the case back till next month so I can get solicitor.

Here is the description of the supreme court case.

"This appeal raises the difficult question of the entitlement of a company to be represented in proceedings before the Superior Courts by a person who is not a lawyer with a right of audience"

Surely this shouldn't apply to the small claims court? It is hardly a Superior court?

Lenar3556

Generally speaking companies need legal representation in any court proceedings. The company is seen as a separate entity and its directors are not permitted to represent it. That position predates the case you refer.

I would have thought there would be some latitude in the small claims procedure. By its very nature is supposed to be informal.

dennyk

If you have an LTD company and that company is the complainant or respondent in a small claims case, the company is a separate entity from yourself, and as the company isn't a person, it isn't capable of representing itself in court the way an ordinary person could. Since you are not a qualified solicitor or barrister, you can't legally act as a representative for the company in court either, even in a small claims procedure, so you'll need to hire someone who can legally act as your company's legal representative. It's just one of the trade-offs involved when you create a legally separate business entity.

Firblog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122711422#Comment_122711422

I do appreciate that, however in the decision I quoted above (that was used by Apple's solicitor to halt the case) it only referred to limited companies ' being represented in proceedings in the superior courts' - just querying if the Small Claims / District / Court is a superior court?

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122711441#Comment_122711441

It’s not, but the practice of officers of a company not having a right of audience to represent it pre-dates that ruling by 50+ years. It’s not a new thing.

The judge does have some discretion to set that aside and hear from you, but it’s seems he does not intend to exercise it on this occasion.

Firblog

The judge seemed surprised that a limited company needed to be legally represented in the small claims court and asked the solicitor what case law supported her claim.

CramCycle

On a side note, the small claims court limit is miniscule in the grand scheme of things, presumably you are taking them to task, the cost of the solicitor, which will not be awarded should be thought about. They are a large company and presumably have their own legal team so this costs them nothing but they know it costs you something and they are hedging their bets you will just give up.

My limited view would be to talk to a solicitor for advice, pay their fee for the chat and see what they say. They may say I'll write a letter to their team offering to settle without admission of any wrong doing or they may say after legal fees, you need to be in the District court if the value is under the amount the solicitor will cost, either let it go or look at going to the district court if you are sure.

Hard to know without knowing what you are taking them to court for but a chat with a solicitor, which may end up with either the letter above or a list of cases showing that it is generally accepted in the SCC, who knows.

Claw Hammer

Right of audience in any court is at the discretion of the judge.

You can certainly argue that in the nature of a small claim with no costs available the company can be represented by one of its officers.

https://www.courts.ie/acc/alfresco/b96c4d8c-9479-4e6b-95c7-079d6482ea82/2018_IESC_49_1.pdf/pdf#view=fitH

Firblog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122717544#Comment_122717544

Yeah, that was the case used by Apple's legal eagle.