EV purchase motivation and concerns?

Stallingrad

As someone who has started thinking about an EV being my next car I'd be curious about peoples motivation for making the switch away from ICE.

In my case the key attractions are:
1: Refinement
2: Performance
3: Tech
4: Running costs

The Environmental aspect is a bonus but is not part of my motivation.

The main concerns are:
1: Market uncertainty
2: Charging hassles
3: Depreciation and a hard car to sell on on 3-5 years
4: Battery technology shift cover the coming years

ELM327

It depends on your use case. The BIG thing I will say is get an EV that comfortably exceeds your max regular trip. So if you regularly do 100km in a day, then get a 200km real world (multply the claimed/wltp range by 0.6) range EV.

Those concerns are real. I have driven and owned many evs over the last 9 years and probably over 400k km in them. I did 60k a year back in 2015-18! Including one year in a 24kwh leaf. Like you I don't care about the environmental aspect and it's based solely on cost (total TCO cost including fuel, tax, insurance, depreciation, loan interest, opportunity cost, etc etc).

Your key attractions are all met or exceeded in most evs. Tech is hit and miss in Tesla (I am a current owner and had 2 before that).

main concerns are also real.

1: Market uncertainty

This is true, but, while depreciation (see #3) is a real thing, it's from a post covid inflation high on all cars. Buying a full EV has uncertainty but so has buying a diesel or a hybrid. No one knows what the market will be in 3-5 years. Buy an EV that suits your needs and is likely to do so if you are stuck with it/

2: Charging hassles

Home charging is no hassle at all. 15 seconds to plug in. Public charging is a hassle. This is why I say buy a car that comfortably exceeds your regular range. Our current cars do that. Max regular trip is 250km (wexford-dublin-wexford) which in my M3 RWD takes 75-95% of battery.

3: Depreciation and a hard car to sell on on 3-5 years

This is unfortunately real. Especially with Tesla. I'm stuck in it. But you're gonna take a hit selling any car that you bought new. All cars take 50% depreciation after year 3 on average, with 2/3 of those 50 percentage points often coming in year one. We're coming off a post covid bubble. I bought my M3 at 54k and the new one is 39k now. So I have the normal depreciation plus that 15k drop!

4: Battery technology shift cover the coming years

This is a risk but it's always a risk.

Stallingrad

Great response, appreciated.

Good advice re range, I've tended to trust manufacturers figures which is probably very foolish of me! I'll certainly aim for something that exceeds my expected needs.

I was a bit taken aback when at a main dealer they told me they weren't taking any EV as trade ins. It also made me wonder if they're not taking them now, would they ever take them as technology is only going to make current cars even more redundant.

That is something we haven't seen before.

So I would be go again with my eyes wide open, but as I tend to hold onto a car for 5+ years it's not a deal breaker.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122667947#Comment_122667947

What main dealer told you that?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122668065#Comment_122668065

It's pretty common actually, some main dealers are overstocked with 12-36 month old EVs and won't take more in. We were told the same from a Kia and a Nissan dealer.

Stallingrad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122668065#Comment_122668065

Renault. They are not alone either.

3DataModem

I got my first EV 6-7 years ago to reduce running costs and maintenance. I got my second for the same reasons but got a bigger car to benefit from the company car tax benefits. Now, I will never go back to ICE. Simpler to run, simpler to maintain, my wife loves it.

I am certain there are plenty of people for whom EV is not viable depending on their travel needs. For example a person travelling point to point on the road a lot will be at the mercy of remote charging.

But for my needs it’s perfect.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122667927#Comment_122667927

Good honest response there- I like the lack of sugar coating - the risks are the risks but the benefits are there too.

I won’t be buying for another year or two as I just don’t have the need right now so I’m saving instead for that time to come. But certainly it will be EV. Cost of second hand EVs vs ICEs are so close now in the market that im looking at that it would be mad to consider ICE from a running costs perspective.
I’ll suck up the few long journeys (500km+ ) day round trips) I do per year or else use the ICE second car for that - but most other journeys should be covered either with back home to charge or overnight charging at destination town.

Only downside I’m thinking of waiting for 2 years to buy, is that prices of secondhand EVs will rise - I reckon a lot more people will be in the secondhand market to buy and there will be stock challenges keeping the prices higher than the levels they are right now

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122668374#Comment_122668374

Cheers. I’m trying to compile a list for a filing cabinet somewhere.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122668907#Comment_122668907

Prices aren’t going to rise. All cars are depreciating right now, as they always have pre covid

10-10-20

This lady here is doing her bit for big-oil in the UK to keep the EV sales suppressed.

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/regret-buying-family-electric-car-3298325

I'm happy to live with the significant financial savings that an EV has brought us while the 'rest' are fed and believe this type of bull from 'journalists'.

Cyrus

Check real world range here its pretty accurate

https://ev-database.org/

zg3409

>1: Market uncertainty

If you go PCP route you have fixed known costs and you can hand car back subject to mileage limits and scratches. However at that point you need to get a new car

,>2: Charging hassles

This is real and main downside. Most EVs can go 300+km, so 150km from home without needing to public charge. Public charging has gotten better and should get easier the next year except for peak times such as Friday evening or bank holidays. If you book hotels with their own charger it helps.

>3: Depreciation and a hard car to sell on on 3-5 years

PCP is an option. Buying a 1 or 2 year old car reduces depreciation too. Or buy a high mileage used car if you go low mileage and buy it very cheap..

>4: Battery technology shift cover the coming years

Definitely standard battery sizes in EVs is increasing. Charging speeds are increasing. As always manufacturers are tying to make newer cars better in terms of putting small batteries in first models, increasing battery size, slow charging in first models, faster charging in later models, low power in first models, dual motor high power in later models. Also many EVs are a bodged petrol or diesel car, newer EVs are from the ground up EV so have more room inside etc. Manufacturers bring out new models and refresh old models all the time. It is a time of big change as people realise petrol and diesel is dead and sales of EVs should grow. However many new buyers don't worry about cost of petrol, and car prices are still relatively high.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058371319/ev-purchase-motivation-and-concerns

For me PCP removed the negatives.

Grumpypants

Ive found that if you plan to stay in the same model car and update every few years, and the dealer does used cars (many like Tesla, byd etc don't), then you can do a bit better in holding value. I bought my MG for 36k and a year later (Oct 23) I got 35k for trading it in for a 1 year newer version. While Tesla & byd offered me 22k as they simply sell on to trade. But in general there is an issue with EVs from other companies, not because they are bad cars, but because most people that want to spend 50+k on a car want a new one with the latest tech & 400+ km range so are simply buying brand new.

Charging is getting much better. I noticed a big difference this summer compared to last. I was in holiday towns in Kerry and Cork and found multiple new 50-150kw fast chargers had been installed and had no issues charging at all. Last year I was in an air BnB and simply plugged into the indoor plug in the house as I was there for a week. So that's an option.

I've never arrived home with less than 50km on the battery. Embarrassingly I've ran out of petrol 3-4 times over the years 🥴. It can still be tricky to get an open petrol station during the night on many roads. Where as chargers never close.

I'm two years in EVs and love it. 6c a KW between 2-5am means my 2-300km weekly driving routine is about €3. Tax is €120 and insurance is €320.

Stallingrad

I would be charging from home and we have solar, so infrastructure not a huge concern. Also would only buy used, 1-2 years, I couldn't stomach paying list price for new car. PCP is an interesting option, though I tend to hold onto cars for 5 years minimum. Megane EV60 appeals, though probably too small.

Some very interesting points being made. Much appreciated.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670930#Comment_122670930

PCP and HP both remove the negatives.
With PCP you have a defined break point after 3 years.

However, under both methods, you have the half rule. Meaning once you pay 50%+0.01 of the hire purchase price (note this is the cash price plus the finance interest) you can hand back the car for nothing. Plenty of exit options to avoid/mitigate excessive depreciation.

I'm looking at replacing 2 of our 3 EVs in the next 12 months and it is very likely that both replacements (be it in one or 2 cars) I'll be getting electric and not ICE. I'm not anti ICE, I have a v6, v8, a turbo 5 cyl, and 2 4 cyl ice cars outside. ICE for daily driving just simply doesnt make sense.

bruschi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122669301#Comment_122669301

these sort of articles infuriate me. They shouldnt but they do. They are click bait nonsense that appeal to idiots to confirm their bias. As typical, she has every fud imaginable in it.

Firstly, they dont have a home charger and charge using a granny cable that runs over a footpath when they can find a parking space outside. This is a downside to EV ownership. Having proper capable home charing, IMO, is a must. Absolutely people can do it without having proper home charging, but if someone asked me my advice on whether they should get an EV or not, if they are in an apartment or terraced house with not parking, I'd be saying it wont suit them.

What the hell is the point of a car that you can’t reliably drive from London to Scotland? I don’t have to drive from London to Scotland, but I want to own a car that hypothetically can.

Yup, lets criticise a car that cant do a journey that I have no intention of doing.

 last week it was reported that Britain’s public car charging network is so expensive that the cost of driving an electric car is now up to twice the price of running a petrol or diesel vehicle

from the article she links, the difference in price (which is probably another debate) goes form 14p per mile to 18p per mile. Not exactly "up to twice the price".

Fair play to her, she'll get her clicks and links to her article, but the same tired old cliches and nonsense.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671453#Comment_122671453

Ah it's complete waffle. Plus it seems like it was a historical occurrence from 2020 which she just dragged up for attention.

Anyway, sorry for derailing the convo - I know it was a complete side-track.

AndyBoBandy

Charging hassle is only a hassle if you regularly travel outside your home range, and will need to rely on busy chargers. If you don't do that, it's not a hassle.

In the last 2 years I've probably done that 10-15 times, and never had an issue charging (Thanks mostly to Tesla Superchargers), but even when using the non Tesla chargers (Applegreen/ESB/EasyGo), I've never had a problem (in the last 2 years).

The closest I ever came to 'waiting for a charger' in that time was pulling into Mahon Point Tesla Supercharger where 4 of 4 chargers were being used, but literally as we pulled up, a car was leaving.

Once you can charge at home you're grand.. as chances are home charging will probably cover 97% of your annual charging needs…

Charging infrastructure is now being rolled out at a lightning pace compared to just a few short years ago (why? because there's money to be made now).

AndyBoBandy

I was having a look at some Tesla's on DoneDeal yesterday, a few of them starting around €20k for 192/201 which is a great entry price into what is still an excellent EV. I drive a 201 Model 3 SR+, and have no intention of upgrading it for at least another 6+ years… as despite the newer ones having so much more tech/upgrades, they are still ridiculously good cars!!

This one even sub €20k

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/tesla-model-3-sr/38015531

Theres even a LR for sale for €22k!! Buy it, then buy the acceleration boost, and for €23,800 you have a 300-350km range car that'll do 0-100 in 3.9s and smoke most things on Irish roads, except the few faster EV's….. just for the craic!!

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/tesla-model-3-2020-long-range75kw-1-owner/37446104

Both high enough mileage, but most of the initial 'fast' degradation has already happened with these cars, so at worst from now on they lose 1% a year..

If I needed a 2nd car quick, or a replacement, I'd be all over one of these…

McCrack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671598#Comment_122671598

Boring and ubiquitous "cars"

Dayor Knight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058371319/ev-purchase-motivation-and-concerns

We bought a VW ID3 in 2021 and are now on our second.

Main motivation for first purchase was…

1. Environmental - city air quality

2. Environmental - the big picture

3. Running costs.

I traded for new ID 3 back in May. Also replaced our older VW Golf petrol with an e-Up at the same time, so have doubled down on electric.

We're fully committed now to EV and am unlikely to ever buy I.C.E again. Reasons….

1. Brilliant to drive. Even the little e-Up is a cracker around the city.
2. Running costs …. we have free Saturday electricity plan with Electric Ireland. Other days are a bit more expensive but don't outweigh the massive benefit of being able to charge both cars on Saturday for zero cost. That then covers us for the week (we do about 18 k a year between both). Best plan depends on your won driving profile and preferences.
3. Maintenance and servicing costs zero so far (had a plan to cover tyres - these can be expensive).
4. The environmental aspects of course.

Any downsides or concerns….?

You do have to think about your driving profile.

Home charging makes city driving no issue at all. Our car has about 400 km range in summer, dropping to about 320 in winter. If you do motorway driving above 100 km you can take another 20% off that.

Our main long journey is to West Kerry (5 or 6 time a year). Since the the 8 point hub opened in Obama Plaza, we have no problem with this … one stop there of about 30 to 40 minutes to fuel ourselves and the car gets us comfortably to Dingle, which now has three high speed chargers. I initially kept our VW Golf ICE as a back up and second car. Never felt the need to use it in preference to the EV.

On caution would be that if you have some long trips, you need to check what's the EV charging structure like on your route. I got caught out once in West Cork, when a charger was out of order. You also nee to plan your charging for long journeys.

Re depreciation, i traded in our 212 model for a similar (new 'pre-reg') in May for €11 K. Cost to change probably may be now worse than any other scenario, as long as your changing EV to EV, as new prices drop.

Hope that helps!

Dayor Knight

Can't seem to edit my previous post there, last point should read *"no worse" (not "now worse"!)

CivilEx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058371319/ev-purchase-motivation-and-concerns

One of the key attractions in an EV for me was your number 4 - running costs, where a new BEV will likely come out on top if you have home charging available to you, irrespective of brand.

Make the best financial decision you can at the relevant point in time for your circumstances, be it ICE, Hybrid or BEV and plan to live with it for 3 years. If you change your mind inside that time window, depreciation will always be the winner.

drunkmonkey

I went turbo petrol, EV, bigger turbo petrol, turbo petrol plug in hybrid and back to EV. The governments bik regime played a part in my decisions.

Completely happy with my current EV, it showed just shy of 680km range heading off to Galway in the good weather 2 weeks ago. Never need public charging. Just about to hit 20,000km in 6mts of driving from new.

I can't get my head around people paying a 30k premium for the diesel version, I think the pendulum is going to swing and swing hard in EV's favour. There's serious purchase and running costs in an EV's right now.

My only advice will be buy the biggest range you can afford as that's what the next guy will be looking at.

Buddy Bubs

2 years in and my only remaining concern is resale value. But then again I bought new which I have never done with ICE and feeling it a bit now not being able to change if I wanted to.

Luckily, I'm pretty happy with my EV cars so it's not a massive problem

The only concern I'd really pass on to any prospective buyer is to make sure you have access to your own charger. And that you don't regularly go over the range of what your car will do. It's not a big deal charging publicly but if you're doing it all the time it's going to be expensive. I publicly charge about twice a month but it's going from 10% to 40% or thereabouts just to get me home.

The drive in EVs is fantastic, so responsive they really are way ahead of ICE in that respect.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122673876#Comment_122673876

Don't buy one that the range is only suitable for you was my point to Stalingrad, you're severely limiting your resale value as it will only appeal to people in certain situations. A car should be able to go where you want when you want. That excludes a lot of EV's worth considering.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122673922#Comment_122673922

Decent advice and to an extent I agree with you but buying a car that will suit more owners after you are finished with it will, although there are exceptions, in general cost you more and you'll end up losing out anyway. Very similar to loading any car full of extras will make it desirable but you won't see the money back in most cases.

My main car is the higher range etron 55 and it has fallen more in euro value than the lower range 50 because it was a decent bit more expensive new by about 15 grand I think.....gap between the 2 like for like now is between 5 and 10k. I didn't buy new but a family member did and didn't like it and was going to be absolutely crucified to get rid of it so I bought it..

The other one is a Cupra born 58kw bought brand new and I've nothing to compare to really as the 77kw didn't sell at all here I think I've only ever seen 1 advertised

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122673922#Comment_122673922

Yes, it’s the only way to future proof an EV. As the tech gets better and range grows on new EV’s, something with “adequate range” now will quickly become the equivalent of a €5K Leaf in a few years.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671112#Comment_122671112

From my own experience, public charging has improved dramatically and is continuing to improve along most main routes

For example I recently went from Dublin to Kilkenny for a weekend. Had to charge on the way back and noticed there were chargers at the Circle K near Carlow

Plugged in, paid with card, left after 15 mins with plenty to get home. No planning ahead or pile of charging cards needed

The biggest hassle I'd say is finding decent chargers. Apps like Plugshare help but the signage for charging hubs isn't great, I only knew about the Circle K hub because I spotted it on the way

If you're using it occasionally then I wouldn't say it's any real hassle