It's A Door, Jim; But ...

Stigura

I've got one for ye! 😁 Door, right? 63" x 27 1/2" x 2". Only, it's made out of like expanded foam. Sandwiched between thin sheets of some ferrous metal. Bit like a fridge door.

Anyway, it's a press door. I got a set of hinges for it. Three hinges. Gate ones. 14 1/4" x 4 1/2" butts. Forgive me but, it once seemed like a good idea to rivet these hinges on. Straight to and through that one sides sheet of tin. Then, I wondered what in hell I thought I was thinking!

How about bolts? Straight the way through. Nuts and as big a 'washer' ~ or what ever ~ on the inside, to hold onto the skin and give that door a bit of support. Any advance on That, please? Problems I don't know enough to see?

Fridge doors? Don't they tend to hinge on just relatively small pins, top and bottom only?

Oh, and the butts are to be screwed into the Side of one of these panels. Except, I've cut out and filled that edge with a length of 2 x 4, screwed into place, backing against the rest of the panel. Seems pretty solid.

What say The Brotherhood of the Drill?

10-10-20

Hi ya! Is this an insulating door on an appliance or just a standard domestic external door with habitation on one side and the great outdoors on the other? Because if it's insulating something then hypothetically you don't really want to put a bolt through it as it will just act as a cold junction and end up condensing on the bolt/screw. So yes, tell us more about this auld fridge-door and we'll have a collective think on your behalf. 👍️

Stigura

@10-10-20 Good man! Gets the juices going, this one! 😂

Ye point, about cold junction? Way above my pay grade! Exactly why I asked here, of course.

Would that apply with the insulation being more focused on keeping heat In? Like a Warm Press, I guess. They don't seem to have much special, by way of doors.

My main concern was 'simply' the engineering aspect. The physics of the weight, Vs. any fittings efforts to tear through the thin metal, under that weight.

Stigura

Two days later …..

Deregos.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122643943#Comment_122643943

I'm not 100% sure, but I think I've seen what looked like regular door hinges tack welded onto a similar insulated door before . . D'ya know anyone who does a bit of welding?

Stigura

@Deregos. Says: " Welding? "

Err. Yeah. I Do know a bloke who welds. My neighbour. And, probably every other man, but me, in all of Leitrim! I almost did. Realised I'm too old to bother, now.

But, naah. This is an indoor, more or less bit of furniture, see? These particular hinges ~ jap blacked ~ are to set it off a treat.

But, ye mention itself raises / returns us to the question; '*Could* screws hold?' 🤔 Dunno. What ye reckon? Screws, in place of spots?

Which Now gets me to consider jap blacked through bolts???

See, it's all about the stresses on that tin, isn't it? How would your spots be any less likely to do damage than my bolts? Granted, my bolts need holes. Your spots basically become as one with the tin. Dunno.

My bolts get Two holes. And some whack off big washers ….?

Deregos.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122649652#Comment_122649652

Its hard to tell without seeing some pics of the door and frame, but would Tek screws (painted black and without washers) and a bit of metal adhesive of some sort work?

Stigura

@Deregos. said: 'Photo's?'

THIS is what we're dealing with. Not the best of shots. But, it's an original and not taken for This purpose. It shows the thinness of tin though. Along the top edges of this, horizontal, sheet. Yeah? That's the rough 'Door Frame', laid on its side.

Right background is an 'actual' (Untouched) sheet, showing us the rolled edges, which I've cut off, on the 'door frame'. See the foam, sandwiched in there, too.

That's 2 x 3, set into the edge of the door frame. I've hollowed the foam and slotted that in. Screw the hinge butts through the trim, I'm adding, into that.

The whole then is a 'walk in' sized, upright, rectangular box. About six by three foot. Door fits into the front / entrance. Door itself measures 63" x 27 1/2". That's the stresser.

I could probably rustle up an approximation of the Weight? That may be getting a little involved though, going to Those lengths.

Deregos.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122650180#Comment_122650180

Funny enough it was the weight of the door panel I was just thinking about . . isn't the actual problem that you're looking to fit those three large gate hinges to the door where there's no sturdy place to fix them to? You've already got a length of 2x3 stuck in along that edge, if you used three smaller, regular door hinges with screw holes that didn't go beyond where the thickness of the 2x3 timber is . . you’d be grand screwing the door hinges into/along that timber edge.

Though If you were keen on using those large gate hinges, you could do so if you sheeted both sides of the door with plywood . . But that'd make it a whole lot heavier.

Stigura

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122650583#Comment_122650583

The gate hinges are a given. It's like furniture. I like the style as it shall be. So, there's no escaping that basic premise.

Their butts will screw to the wood lined, right hand side of the box. The long arms will extend, 14" across the door. Hold that fact in mind.

I'm not plying the outside, because I don't want to look at ply. I could ply the inside. I'd hate to. But, physically? I probably could.

Would That not simply transfer the stress, 'doubled' to the tin at the Front?

Ah. But, we have those Hinge straps, at the front, spreading and sharing that load, between a run of five screws / rivets / bolts. Alright, screws was figuratively speaking. 'Would the rivets hold it?' is really what I came here with.

Bolts? I was thinking, maybe, Galvy Strapping ~ sort of representing a sort of strip(s) of ye ply there. On the inside from those hinge straps? With me?

Deregos.

Rivets are fine if the thing they're holding is fixed/rigid with no movement, but a big swinging door is gonna have stresses, and when they do eventually weaken or come loose, there's no way of tightening them.

How about three horizontal strips of timber or metal on the opposite side to the hinges, with nuts and bolts going right through, so the door is sandwiched in between the two? Kinda like you'd see on a gate.

Stigura

That's ~ pretty much ~ what I was trying to get at 👍️ Very much like that. Only, I'd only envisaged the 'cross members' (Call 'em what ye will) going as far across as the hinges.

Obviously, to continue the cm's, to any meaningful purpose, would entail further bolts. So, we're looking at hinges, with at least one extra bolt, to their left? That's doable. I can live with a row of black dots down the door.

I have it in my head that ~ the bolted closures? Your welding would've trapped those metals together. Period. My bolts? They'll Always be in direct (90 degree?) opposition with that tin sheet. That's a given we're trying to figure if the Door can live with.

Thought of a Possible, constant desire for those bolt shafts to be pushing themselves through that tin ~ or the tin against Them, suicidally ~ bothers me. Question is turns to whether cross members (Your wood. My galvy strapping. What ever) can resolve the problem?

Dear god. Only I could try to build a box and end up invoking the spirit of Isambard Kingdom Brunel 😬

Rows Grower

You could get a proper timber door made too if you wanted to do a good job.

Stigura

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122651049#Comment_122651049

I could have just got a proper box made, Rows. But, here we are.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122651061#Comment_122651061

There you are Stig.

I'm elsewhere.

Deregos.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122651061#Comment_122651061

Do you have a plan in your head now as to how you're gonna tackle it then Stigura? Whatever way you do end up eventually hanging that door, will you let us know how you get on . . maybe even a couple of pics of the finished contraption.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122651061#Comment_122651061

Here we are is right, Stig. 😝

What gauge is the steel on the door? 2mm?

What about creating hinge plates by countersinking bolts into the plate with the threads exposed so that you have a flush backing, then weld that plate to the surface of the door? Example:

And what I'd do is drill two 10mm holes along the centerline of the bracket and weld the sides of these onto the surface to provide additional support from the door skin. Then mount hinges.

Stigura

I'll be seeing the guy, thursday, works where they make this stuff. I'm gonna run it past him. I don't expect him to know, off the top of his head. But, I'm sure he can find answers, from within, as it were.

It wasn't mean't to become such an issue. Yet, not finding a way through This bit has, of course, held up further work on the whole. Have to sort it, some time.

I'll certainly let ye know, here, what I finally go with. Whether or not anyone yet pops up here with some insight.

Back burner, for a week or so now. I'll ask him. He'll ask them. But, I won't see him for another week, to ask him what he said 😂

Stigura

@10-10-20 said …..

No good, 10! I've proven a lighter weight than my door, mate. Head's imploded! 😂

I'm reading what ye saying. Looking at what ye showing. It's just like: " Nuh. 😶 ". Try over and again. Nuff'n. Brain death. Elvis has left the building. Wind blowing 🤣

Tomorrow, mate! 😁

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122651158#Comment_122651158

Oscar Bravo, pay someone to dump the bit of waste insulated tin you found and call a carpenter.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122651201#Comment_122651201

The Newtonian logic that you're applying here might have helped get man to the moon, but it's Frankensten logic that we need here; so best put the text-books away. 😁

Rows Grower

Logic has no place in this thread.

Stigura

@Deregos. !!! Rubber Washers! 🙏 👍️ 😁

He works with the stuff for a living. Shows!