Dynamic/In Demand Ticket Prices

TheIrishGrover

Just to move from the Oasis thread as suggested.

Thoughts/opinions on Dynamic/In Demand ticket pricing.

What can be done about it?

SHOULD anything be done about it?

Yvonne007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058367305/dynamic-in-demand-ticket-prices

I think it should be standard across the board really.

Standing - x amount

Seating - x amount

Restricted Viewing - x amount

Pit/Golden Circle - x amount (with a small amount of tickets available)

Dynamic pricing is gouging.

banie01

The notion that dynamic pricing is acceptable to the bands, the venues, the promoters and to Ticketmaster. That demand pressure should and will be applied to the prices offered to the public, flies in the face of every argument those same people make against touting.

It is price gouging, it is taking advantage of the finite supply of tickets for an event to squeeze the maximum price out of punters. Undertaking that type of consumer exploitation? Undermines any argument made by those people that "face price" is the only acceptable price for a ticket.

scottser

Live Nation and Ticketmaster are being taken to court by 26 states in the US, claiming they have provable monopoly on the live event sector. There is nothing stopping the EU from doing the same.

United States v. Live Nation Entertainment - Wikipedia

In Demand pricing is really only possible when you're the only game in town, particularly at the level of increases seen over the weekend.

keeponhurling

In a free market, shouldn't dynamic or any pricing be allowed?

The organizer can pick their price and nobody is forcing the public to pay it.

Scalping or touting is different as money is being paid to a third party that inserts itself and adds no value.

daymobrew

The same gouging pricing happened last year when AC/DC tickets were on sale.

Leroy42

Yes, they should be free to set the price, but they are doing it in a very underhand way.

They get people excited about the gig, put out 'from 87 per ticket', then get people to queue for hours before letting them know that the previous price of 87 has been changed to 400. But the consumer has already bought into the whole experience. Spent time on line (hours). That is very hard to simply turn away and refuse this ticket when you now have been led to believe that so many others are buying it the prices have been forced up.

It needs to be far more transparent. X amount of tickets at 87, next 3000 at 150 etc. Then people would have a much better idea of the likely price.

They are manipulating the consumer and that is the issue. Not the price of the ticket. People will say that nobody is forced to buy a ticket which is of course true, but that completely ignores FOMO, sunk cost and the marketing that goes around such gigs.

TokTik

Its pretty much legalised touting.

bureau2009

I understand Live Nation own Ticketmaster.

If I were Taoiseach I would ensure that Live Nation/Ticketmaster publish annual accounts specifically for their Irish operations.

And it would be good to have the names of the shareholders in Live Nation.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574004#Comment_122574004

What difference would any of that make? If Ticketmaster is making 50m then it's okay, but 100m and its an outrage?

And the names of shareholders? So ESB pension funds hold shares does that change how you would buy tickets?

Wanderer78

scam, simple as, and they ll get away with it to!

breezy1985

Would be no controversy if tickets started at a fair price. No one really has a problem with Ryanair or Irish Rail.

But starting at 125e and going up is just gouging. Same reason people are angry at hotels.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574004#Comment_122574004

Live Nation is traded on the NYSE. It's shares change hands regularly. What difference would knowing the names of shareholders make?

Also you can't make company law specific to one company.

jhansynk10

If anyone actually wants to try to make a difference here, I've created a reddit thread to request an investigation of this pricing model in Ireland.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/1f6c0m5/comment/ll4vk93/?context=3

whippet

In reality no one was forced at gun point to purchase any of these tickets. However it is an inherently nasty practice and as someone else eluded to they are playing on the almost gamblingesque impulsive behaviour of a target market. Make them feel that if they don't buy they will be missing out and regretting it down the line.

I simply wouldn't pay that sort of money out of principal and as a football fan i've almost stopped going to games in England now since the model is pushed towards 'hospitality' tickets at extortionate rates; which in reality mean a plate of curry and bottle of beer adding up to £300 to the price of a ticket.

But - i'd be looking back at why artists are charging so much. Forget all about the cost of venues, insurance, security and logistics etc …. If you take Coldplay over the weekend - what % of the people attending have ever purchased a Coldplay album? This stream of revenue has all gone the way of spotify and apple music leaving a massive blackhole in the traditional revenue stream. So gigs and merchandise at the venue is almost the only way they can get money from fans.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574090#Comment_122574090

we probably should be setting up requests for inquests into this to on other platforms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574091#Comment_122574091

…

other major acts such as smashing pumpkins recently toured with much lower ticket prices, if such a major act can do so and still make money…….

maccored

the bands concerned have a say in the pricing, otherwise The Cure wouldnt have been able to keep their Ticketmaster prices inline without any price increases. Oasis management more than likely could have prevented this had they been arsed

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574109#Comment_122574109

..or maybe they said, we could all make a fortune out of this, by screwing fans even more, shur whats the harm!

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574106#Comment_122574106

i'm not saying they aren't making money - but it's about how much money they want to make / know they will have enough punters paying.

The Smashing Pumpkins wouldn't have been able to sell 80,000 tickets at those prices. It is a cash grab and i'm in no way trying to justify it - but the music industry has never been known for it's morals and why would that change now. The promotors, artist and ever other vested interest will want their pound of flesh and when hype like Oasis comes around there is plenty of flesh to go around.

The teenagers from the 90s are now in their 40s and probably at the height of their earning power and have that little more disposable income and that is there to be milked.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574142#Comment_122574142

we ve clearly moved into a far more aggressive gouging phase in this industry, and its having detrimental effects, young bands are screwed, no real pathway towards long term success, the arse will fall out of the industry if something isnt done immediately……

many in their 40's actually done have more spending power, as similar tactics have been applied in other, far more critical markets such as housing, which in turn has significantly indebted these individuals, ultimately leading to far less spending power…..

Hellrazer

Definitely needs some sort of regulation.

Its like going on to Power Citys website and seeing a fridge on sale for €199.00

You drive to the shop - might take you an hour to get there, go to buy the fridge and then the staff member then say "Oh thats an in-demand model and I now have to sell it to you for €1000"

You can be 100% guaranteed that the regulator would get involved if that happened.

Its the same here - tickets advertised at " From X euros" and as soon as you go to the pay / purchase page its suddenly multiple times the amount advertised. At no stage in the queue are you advised that the tickets are going to increase in price by 4 times the advertised amount.

In my opinion theres 3 ways to tackle Ticketmaster -

1 - False advertising - Advertising Authority for advertising tickets "from" with no number associated to how many tickets are available at the "advertised price"

2 - CCPC - Consumer protection for increasing the price only when you get to the payment / purchasing page.

3 - There also has to be some law against Ticket Master having a monopoly / zero competition on selling tickets here.

Akrasia

Dynamic pricing is not inherently against EU consumer protection laws as long as it adheres to the principles of transparency, fairness, and no hidden fees.

I don't think they meet the standards of transparency or fairness when they are putting all of the tickets for a concert that they know will be an immediate sell-out on sale at the same time and getting people to out bid each other in an extremely time sensitive transaction where consumers won't have the time or ability to scrutinise the contract of sale before completing the transaction

If you are offered a price for the tickets that are only valid for a few minutes before they are released back to the pool, I would consider this to be unfair. Nobody is going to be able to inform themselves of the conditions of sale in that brief window, especially if they are worried that the system will crash and they'll lose their offer at any moment and may not be able to secure any other tickets.

If the tickets were being auctioned off in an e-bay style platform, at least that would be transparent.

jiltloop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573959#Comment_122573959

I'm not sure that the ticketing market can be called a free market at this stage though. This is what happens when a company gains a monopoly. Ticketmaster has been allowed to get away with this for too long and have been allowed to get a monopoly foothold wordwide. Competition laws were created to prevent this very situation and should be used.

markodaly

Isn't this due to the bands themselves, and not the promoters?

Buddy Bubs

Fella on Joe Duffy now blaming the GAA!

ledwithhedwith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573959#Comment_122573959

I think it should be allowed, should be able to charge 100k per ticket if they so wish, but the new prices should at least flash up while in the queue. Wasting peoples sat morning/afternoon to then be presented with these new prices is inherently unfair.

blackbox

In principle I think that dynamic pricing is fair and legal.

However, I think it is unfair if someone is queueing for ages for an €80 ticket but when they get to the end of the queue only a €400 ticket is available. It should be mandatory that the latest/current price is continually displayed. That way, if your limit is say €100 you can exit the queue and not waste time and not push the price higher.

blackbox

It's not Ticketmaster that is the monopoly, it is Oasis.

Only Oasis can put on an Oasis concert. Even if there were multiple sellers, the number of tickets is limited by the number and size of the Oasis events.

If anyone had a gripe with Ticketmaster it would be the performers, not the audience.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574287#Comment_122574287

do we have any absolute evidence of this, do we have access to the undisclosed contracts agreed to, in order to make such as statement?

Kimbot

Look at it this way, if a pub now decides to do dynamic pricing because they are busy how is it decided. Is it the most popular drink gets an increase, all drink get it etc and by how many multiples does it go up, does the bar man decide when to charge it etc. Its going to open a serious can of worms if dynamic pricing becomes the norm.

Potential-Monke

Lol, I gave up on going to anyone I was interested in as soon as tickets started heading north of €50. No band is worth that. None. I get it if you like atmosphere and that, but I usually like bands for the music, and in my experience live reduces my enjoyment because I'm used to hearing the perfect studio versions. And I hate people. So meh.

But for those who like it, just like everything else in this country, ye are getting rode. And it would be great to say just don't go, but there's always going to be more than enough people with the money, or willing to out themselves into debt, just to (in this case) try and recapture some of the youth that has been lost.

Either way, it is blatantly abuse of a monopoly. The CCPC should be getting involved, but they do fuk all as far as I can tell. Just another one of those shut up and take it situations.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574307#Comment_122574307

…it would eventually collapse businesses and industries all over the shop, and possible economies themselves…..

ledwithhedwith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574307#Comment_122574307

this already happens I think it’s a pub in England , operate the drinks like a stock exchange haha

bureau2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574066#Comment_122574066

However, if one particular company has a unique place in Irish life, ie a major seller of tickets for live events with no comparable competitor, then I believe ALL aspects of their operation should be scrutinized and made transparent.

keeponhurling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574307#Comment_122574307

Well, a pub could do that.

But I would suspect that it wouldn't be very popular, and people would go to a different pub down the road instead, to avoid that price uncertainty.

A pub could charge EUR 100 a pint if they want, but again they wouldn't get many customers.

Oasis still sold out even with such expensive prices.

Hellrazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574417#Comment_122574417

But thats the issue - Consumers dont have another option on where to buy their tickets unlike the pub analogy - theres only one company that can sell them. Theres no competition so TM can charge what they like and the consumer has to suck it up.

I suspect Oasis sold out because people eventually got to the top of queue and the fear of missing out was too strong to resist spending 400 over 88.00

jhansynk10

Live Nation own Ticketmaster and MCD, the entire market is a stitch up from the start. Oasis management are obviously responsible here too.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574319#Comment_122574319

I'm similar to yourself but I extended my amount I'm willing to pay up to €100.

I pushed the boat out last year and bought a pair of Depeche Mode tickets for €130 each. Absolutely adore the band but spend the whole night standing in a sea of people watching the show through their phones just thinking 'this experience is not worth €260'.

Have Nick Cave coming up in a few months, think that was in and around 88 euro which I was happy paying. Got some Pantera tickets for next year for about the same.

Not breaking the €100 euro again, doesn't matter who it is. Can't even imagine paying €400. That's what, €3.33 a minute you're burning through per person at a 2 hour gig? **** that!

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574566#Comment_122574566

dynamic pricing still engaged for some pantera tickets, standing at 230 +++ each…..

https://www.ticketmaster.ie/pantera-dublin-21-02-2025/event/180060C599C726F2

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573959#Comment_122573959

Sign in a window says 'Milk - 50c per litre'. In you go with your 50c and queue up for a litre of milk with the other 50 people looking to take advantage of a great deal. Shopkeeper says, that'll be €3.50 please, and when you ask why he'll say the 50c milk is sold out, and now there's only the premium milk left.

This is why 'the market' should not be allowed to decide anything.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574609#Comment_122574609

price fixing can also introduce its own set of problems, but there clearly needs to be a balancing act, profits do need to be made by businesses involved, but theres a difference between profits and PROFITS…..

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574586#Comment_122574586

Yeah it's insane. Prime example of a gig I'd love to go to but if I was unable to get tickets for sub €100 I wouldn't be going.

I wish more folks would engage a similar practice and just boycott all these mad expensive shows.

It's all well and good giving out about dynamic pricing, but if you're paying for crazy priced tickets you're actually part of the problem.

ledwithhedwith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574649#Comment_122574649

Of course if people en masse don’t pay it prices will go down. Having rules like that is grand but I’d rather go see bands I want to. Life for living and all that.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574621#Comment_122574621

I understood price fixing as fixed between retailers so they all benefit to the same degree, like a cartel. In Demand pricing can really only happen in a monopoly, where there are no controls on whatever the retailer is selling, and they can charge whatever they like on whatever spurious conditions they deem fit to apply.

If Ticketmaster advertised the tickets for €500 straight off the bat, you probably wouldn't mind as much. Does anyone have a TM account to check how much those €500 tickets are being resold for? I've heard from mates that resellers are asking up to €10k for 4 but I don't have an account to verify.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574335#Comment_122574335

There is a chain in Germany do it too.

Obviously though you go to that pub to take part in the "fun" of the stock exchange system. It's not gonna spread to Paddy Pintman's local any time soon.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574350#Comment_122574350

Lets say a random punter took the if you can't beat them join them attitude after Saturday. After refusing to pay 874 for two standing tickets (415 plus fees each) he/she sticks that money in their Degiro/Trading 212/Revolut etc account and buys 10 shares in Live Nation.

How does access to that person's name a) benefit you or b) address the problem?

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574417#Comment_122574417

The grocery store Kroger in the US recently started using dynamic pricing, I'd say a lot of things people think consumers would reject might be gotten away with.

Ivor_Guddon

get rid of ticketmaster be the first step

maybe have all people register a week before tickets go on sale of how many tickets the want and do a massive raffle and that way you don't need to wait hrs on a poxy system to see if you get tickets , maybe get an email notiffcation if successful

tbh it's a cluster fook and im not sure it will ever be level playing field again

Kimbot

Apart from the dynamic pricing their queue system is shocking, I was online in the queue at 7.15, my partner joined 20 minutes later and was nearly 100k ahead of me in the actual queue then.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574677#Comment_122574677

I don't see any for resale on Ticketmaster yet.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574723#Comment_122574723

resales probably wont be enacted very close to the gig, so always, hang tight, probably be many tickets available via tm and other means next year, and possibly lower than normal prices to, i.e. less than a 100