Zuckerberg regrets bowing to Biden 'pressure' over Covid

2Greyfoxes

Well, this was an interesting read. The sort of thing that if mentioned a few years ago would have been dismissed as being some right wing conspiracy… that it is being reported by the BBC, gives it legitimate status. For all it's faults, the BBC news reporting has a good pedigree.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxlpjlgdzjo

Hermy

I wonder does he have any other regrets like the sillage heap of fake news and false advertising that Facebook has become?

Sam Russell

What does Zuckerberg regret?

That the White House under Biden wanted to get control of Covid?

Or was it Zuckerberg agreed with Trump that drinking bleach was enough to cure Covid?

Or maybe face masks were nonsense?

Or that Trump lost the election?

Or just the executive arm of the American Gov wanted control of a situation that was killing Americans unnecessarily?

Or is it the control that the USA Gov needs to take control over social media? I think that may be the real regret.

Jim_Hodge

Pressure to remove blatant misinformation is no bad thing.

Downlinz

I mean, we saw the chief medical officer of this country directly address the country in March 2020 and tell the nation that masks didn't protect people from an airborne virus so they shouldn't buy them and wash your hands instead while medical staff were in the process of desperately hoovering up all the PPE they could find.

We also had our education minister inform us that schools were safe and the virus behaved differently there with the sort of logic even a toddler could realise didn't quite make sense.

Clearly controlling the message is seen as more important than being truthful to the population in a situation like a pandemic so it's not particularly shocking that the US government would seek to silence those who challenge it on things like vaccines.

Maybe it delivered the greater good, maybe it leads to more mistrust.

ancapailldorcha

I'm not sure what he thinks he is accomplishing with this intervention. His platform has actively contributed to deep polarisation and radicalisation and he seems to be more concerned with profits and freedom from government oversight.

It sounds like he regrets not being able to publish and push conspiracy theories in the name of profit by engagement.

batistuta9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122551857#Comment_122551857

he lists humour & satire and burying stories based on potential.

whatever your political leaning government shouldn't exert that control over media.

Kurooi

The threshold for censorship should be quite high, suggesting anyone should drink bleach is clearly wrong and would be immediately deleted outside of Covid restrictions too. But speaking against government action is not. And surely the administration itself shouldn't be involved in saying what is and isn't wrong, if something was a crime it should be for police to determine.

Some of you really need to realize that this is all fun and games until someone you don't like plays the same game. If you open the gate for government to censor and control social media, you should be wary when that government changes the next guy and the one after that can do the exact same thing and you may not like them as much.

odyssey06

These were the stakes...this is what the Biden administration were trying to prevent.

It was the equivalent of shouting fire in a crowded theatre.

These were the people influenced by the disinformation about covid.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/republicans-died-double-democrats-covid-b2227425.html

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122552124#Comment_122552124

the media should be held responsible for the content. And false information.

Look at the amount of nuts that thinks looking on Facebook or instagram is doing research

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122551835#Comment_122551835

exactly, and Instagram is now 1000% worse. So it will be a cold day in hell before I take anything Zuckerberg says at face value or lend it any kind of credibility. He’s a businessman that’s basically it.

Kurooi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122552158#Comment_122552158

Uh it seems majorly dishonest of independent to not consider the age profile of the voters

The study actually does mention age and notes republican deaths were 76% higher BEFORE the vaccine. There is a larger gap after so that makes sense but it's not 2x deaths because of vaccination, independent there is taking the piss.

"Between March 2020 and December 2021, the
part of our study period that overlaps the COVID-19 pandemic, average excess death rates
were 5.4 pp (76%) higher among Republicans than Democrats"

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122551857#Comment_122551857

But who determines what is blatant misinformation?

Today it may be right, tomorrow it may be wrong. Tomorrow it may be a government you don't like who determines what is blatant misinformation. A lot of the things that have been deemed unquestionable during covid have since been debunked. And a lot of government actions have been exposed in hindsight as less than savoury.

In Germany internal meeting protocols of the RKI (NPHET equivalent) had to be obtained by court order and when provided only heavily redacted versions were given. After several rounds of more court eventually an unredacted version was leaked by a whisteblower. As it turns out a lot of unsavoury government influence and pressure was put on the medical profession in order to rubber stamp political decisions that had no medical evidence behind them. Threat level increases, alleged ICU collapses, claims about the need for mandatory vaccinations due to the spread 'caused by the unvaccinated', mask mandates, vaccinations for the young. Countless things had no medical evidence behind them but were ordered by the government 'because'. That same government tried to control what was deemed misinformation. And to this day countless people will rally behind those governments and their decisions regardless.

Manipulation lurks everywhere. Yes and your friendly home government does it too.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122552445#Comment_122552445

Majorly dishonest? The anti vax disinformation was majorly dishonest, which is what the Biden administration was trying to keep a lid on. The anti vaxxers were shouting fire in a crowded theater.

The general point stands.

Beford the vaccine other measures such as distancing and isolating with symptoms were subject to disinformation from covid denialists....who had a big overlap with anti vaxxers.

But what really stands out is the divergence in death rates post the appearance of vaccines. Which suggests a core issue not of age.

"Researchers from Yale University who studied the pandemic's effects on those two states say that from the pandemic's start in March 2020 through December 2021, "excess mortality was significantly higher for Republican voters than Democratic voters after COVID-19 vaccines were available to all adults, but not before."

https://www.npr.org/2023/07/25/1189939229/covid-deaths-democrats-republicans-gap-study

https://globalepidemics.org/2022/05/13/new-analysis-shows-vaccines-could-have-prevented-318000-deaths/

Kurooi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122552468#Comment_122552468

Point stands yes, the study did find vaccines did have an effect, just that it's not as significant as the article paints it and you can't quite pin all of that on vaccines if they were already NEARLY twice as much likely to die before any vaccine was around.

Dishonest, yes, I put a higher burden of accuracy on media, or government, than random dudes on the street. The fact independent was just less stupid than an anti vaxxer doesn't really make me happy about the quality of the reporting here.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122552531#Comment_122552531

There is some confusion or misunderstanding here.

You wrote:

"Republican deaths were 76% higher BEFORE the vaccine."

Vaccines were rolled out starting January 2021:

"Between March 2020 and December 2021, the part of our study period that overlaps the COVID-19 pandemic, average excess death rates were 5.4 pp (76%) higher among Republicans than Democrats."

Brussels Sprout

One of the most revealing things in that story is that making a donation toward election security is seen as a partisan act against the Republicans. Why would that be I wonder….

Kurooi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122552547#Comment_122552547

True acually, the study goes on to use March 2021 as a pre-post vaccine in the next chart. No clue why the March 2020-Dec 2021 timeline was used .

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122552006#Comment_122552006

What were the conspiracy theroies, haven't a lof of them now turned out to be true? Leo hadn't the balls to recommend vitamin D to peopel in case he was classed as a Trumper, ther polarisation and radicalisation you refer to was a direct result of government interferance in free speech and basic human rights.

It's worth noting that the surpression of Hunter Biden Laptop story by Facebook and twitter which was dismissed as a Russian hoax did in fact turn out to be true and it may have had a bearing on the outcome of the US presedential election result.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122554178#Comment_122554178

If they're true, there'd be evidence. You've provided none.

yagan

My initial reaction when I heard this story yesterday is that Zuckerberg is telling the Democrats to be nice to him or he'll use his site against them.

He's being as petulant as Musk.

odyssey06

Trump was recommending all kinds of snake oil from Ivermectin to hydroxychloroquine, without foundation. That is the key - foundation.
There was also the bleach nonsense from Trump.

As for Vitamin D, again, the situation isn't anything remotely like described.
Studies into different illnesses have shown that a vitamin D deficiency is also detected, but that doesn't mean vitamin D supplements are a magic bullet:
There is an association between low vitamin D status and severe outcomes from COVID-19. However, many risk factors are the same for both low vitamin D and severe COVID-19, and so causality cannot be established. In addition, vitamin D is a negative acute phase reactant meaning levels reduce during inflammation, which could be seen in COVID-19… There is insufficient evidence to recommend vitamin D supplementation with the sole intention to prevent SARS-CoV-2 transmission or treat COVID-19

https://phw.nhs.wales/topics/latest-information-on-novel-coronavirus-covid-19/information-for-health-and-social-care/vitamin-d-and-covid-19-professional-briefing/

Backed up by this trial: https://www.bmj.com/content/378/bmj-2022-071230

This is not about free speech, this is about dangerous medical misinformation and false claims being made for medical products.

As for: "polarisation and radicalisation you refer to was a direct result of government interferance in free speech and basic human rights."

Claim absolutely without foundation, beggars belief anybody could write that view in view of the covid denial and anti vax propaganda being peddled during covid, and the polarisation in social media and via news outlets like FOX.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122554212#Comment_122554212

You said, "It sounds like he regrets not being able to publish and push conspiracy theories"

You didn't mention what ones though. Hunters laptop was classifed as a conspiracy, it wasn't. Most of the narrative the government was pushing turned out to be nonsense, they litreally made most things up.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122554257#Comment_122554257

Because that's what it sounds like. He wants to radicalise people for rage clicks and "engagement".

This is the second claim you've made for which you've provided no evidence.

Sconsey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122554178#Comment_122554178

Many many conspiracies theories painted the vaccine as poison, heart-failure inducing, DNA-destroying muck. We should all be dead from taking the vaccine by now if the conspiracy theories were to be believed. I believe the conspiracy luddites have now revised their timelines, we will all be dead from the vaccine sometime soon now.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122554271#Comment_122554271

I get that, it's trying to get a reaction from you, it's why we're seeing things designed to foster devision and it works, good for advertising.

You haven't mentioned any of the conspiracy theories you said Zuck wanted to push, that's on you not me.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122554313#Comment_122554313

You've missed my point and instead pushed a lot of baseless and debunked conspiracy theories yourself which isn't the point of the thread.

I was precise with my words. I never said that Zuckerberg wanted to push conspiracy theories, I said that he wanted the ability to do so, ie to facilitate it on his platform. There's a key difference.

yagan

Misinformation is clickbait, so social media owners will use it unless the penalty is greater than the reward.

2Greyfoxes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122554178#Comment_122554178

I tend to avoid conspiracy theories, as they are a waste of time. As such I have little knowledge of the full in's & out's of Hunter Biden's Laptop conspiracy.

Care to elaborate on what the ramifications of this one are as it would appear that it has some merit to it now.

In regards to the anti-vax stuff, nothing new, we saw a big push for that with the likes of the unfounded claims that Vaccination causes Autsim, which is a load of old codswallop.

While I am no fan of Zuckerberg, I doubt he feels regret at being pressured to suppress those ideas. I'd wager it is the noise and confusion around the various levels of lockdowns, and how certain social activities were fine, while others were not. Remember when we could go to for a mealas long as we wore a mask when entering the building, but could take off the mask when sat down for a meal, because airborne viruses get confused by people sat down. Things like that really sent out some odd messages, and made governments seem like they were making it up as they went along. I imagine there was a lot of satire and comedy around those sort of things that was removed by Facebook.

MrStuffins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122554178#Comment_122554178

"Haven't a lot of them now turned out to be true?"

No, no they have not.

5G was not to blame
Covid wasn't a bio-weapon
No "Great Reset"
There was no hoax
Bill Gates had nothing to do with it
The vaccines worked
The reported "Millions of corpses as a result of the vaccine" never materialised
There was no "Deep State" plot

………….

The conspiracies were nonsense. You can try to lend creedence to the general conspiracy landscape with the old chestnut of "Well, this thing that a conspiracy-head said was true so…." and pretend that all these conspiracies should be listened to, but it won't work.

You should let it go at this point. It's 2024. it's over! You were wrong. Sane heads prevailed.

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Rjd2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122554178#Comment_122554178

Honestly I shall give him a small pass on Covid as I am someone who is very pro vaccine and Trump's government used to contact Twitter to take down stuff when he was president (according to Jack).

The Hunter Biden one is complex, USA needed Trump to lose because another 4 years of him would have been a nightmare, but yeah how that was handled was a massive failure by all especially by Facebook.

I do wonder if it hadn't been incorrectly dismissed as "Russian propaganda" would it have made a difference, possibly but then I'm quite glad that Trump lost so swings and roundabouts.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122555451#Comment_122555451

Thanks for the honest post. It does highlight the problem though, one group of people is happy for the truth to be surpressed when it suits their belief. Trump is bad so anything that can be done to stop him is ok even if electing Biden will lead to more wars and deaths. I want to make it make sense but I just can't get my head around that thought process, what did he do to you?

Ukraine is a perfect example. That war is finished straight away if Trump gets back in but we'll shout for Kamala because she's not Trump.🤔

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122555160#Comment_122555160

I'd argue all them with you except the 5G, I've better things to be doing though, you may think it's over but there's a long way to go yet. Threads on boards should have been locked not deleated, Getting banned for raising the red flag about things like AstraZenaca and being called a conspiracy theorist because of it is something I can live with. Sane heads didn't prevail, just look at what's happening with the HSE uptake and the reasons behind it, over 40% of their staff surveyed thinks it causes serious harm and they won't take it. Anyway this is the politics thread, let's park it.

odyssey06

Some anti vax disinformation being posted here.

The HSE survey referenced doesnt state any of the things claimed for it and its data is being completely misrepresènted here.

https://imj.ie/attitudes-towards-covid-19-and-influenza-vaccination-in-healthcare-workers/

Hermy

How does Trump in power mean an end to the war in Ukraine?

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122556542#Comment_122556542

He said it, didn't he? If he was in power he'd end the war within a couple of days. More specifically he's also on record for saying the war only started because of Biden's promise of NATO membership to the Ukraine and all the Russia antagonising that went with it.

So presumably he would change that course of action. Probably freeze financial & military support, too.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122556662#Comment_122556662

He did say it yes.

He also never lies does he?

BTW seems you’re spewing out Kremlin propaganda can you show us where Biden promised “the” Ukraine NATO membership and that’s how the war started, thanks.

Orwell road is probably asleep now so I can wait until tomorrow.

2Greyfoxes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122556542#Comment_122556542

He said he would do it in a few days.

What I suspect that'll mean is he will threaten to pull support for Ukraine unless Ukraine signs a peace deal with Russia. This will no doubt be massively in favour of Russia. Leaving Ukraine in a position where they can chance it with the support they receive from Europe and continue to resist Rusdian aggression, or sign over parts og their country to Russia.

I bet Putin is counting on Trump winning, as it may be the only chance he has of ending the war without losing face.

That all said, Trump has been know to tell a lie or two.

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Hermy

So it's as I thought - for some people Trump in power means an end to US support for Ukraine rather than any attempt at a properly negotiated settlement.

Palmach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122551857#Comment_122551857

Define misinformation. We had two referenda where a government minister blatantly misrepresented the legal advise of the AG. He's still there. Remember when Biden said if you take the vaccine you won't get COVID and you can't spread it? Governments have no business pressuring anyone to remove posts. The governments only job is to remove posts that are braking the law.

Dogsdodogsstuff

Zuckerberg and Trump being quoted as saviours of Truth. If they said the sky was blue I’d immediately question what I see.

These lads are not people to quote if you want to make a decent argument about it. It’s not that everything they say is a lie, it’s that they are self serving individuals (politest I can be) who are only interested in promoting information that suits or enriches their own cause.

Oddly enough , I do actually agree that governments lied about parts of covid and I do have my own reservations about the covid vaccine. It’s not even debatable , flip flopping over masks and schools being uniquely “safer” was of particular interest. But I understand governments have to make decisions that maybe unpopular and are loose with facts to get an outcome.

Also, some mistakes were inevitable as it was a crisis , in some cases it was governments doing what they thought was right (remember we didn’t have all the answers at the start). And a lot of pressure would have been on anybody going against the majority, Sweden if I remember correctly being branded a country effectively writing off older people by refusing full lockdowns.

I was pro lockdown cause I believe it certainly made sense early doors while we try and figure out about the virus and how to handle things. I don’t look back with regret (even getting vaccine) as to presume it was all lies and manipulation is a tin foil hat stance. There was chaos and governments trying to manage a crisis never seen in our generation.

They did some things wrong but eventually the world has gone back mostly to the way it was so we mostly survived. It’s more important to reflect on it and see what we can learn rather then make it about conspiracy’s and lies etc. We learn nothing by pointing fingers , if anything this sort of blame game is a regressive tactic , it’s why the Trumps and Zuckerbergs do NOTHING to help , they just cause division as they are not credible witnesses.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122556750#Comment_122556750

Trump said it, not I. Take it up with him.

This is the second time you're throwing Kremlin something at me when I did no such thing. You seem a little worked up over this topic, confused even. Failing to understand relatively simple sentences. Kremlin everywhere. Maybe step back from the internet for a bit.

Take it easy.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122557036#Comment_122557036

Vance has the same opinion, he's doesn't care about it, America first.

Wasn't it Borris scuppered peace talks, it's gone too far now, only way it stops is to defund the Zelenskyy regime and force a deal. Poland has tapped out and isn't giving any more weapons, I think it'll be over before Trump's possible re-election as the last thing Ukraine's donors want is for Trump and Putin to get credit for finishing it. It would be terrible outcome for the EU/NATO.

H_Lime

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122552148#Comment_122552148

This is the real take away from this fiasco.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122555801#Comment_122555801

Enough of the tropes, it's not anti anything, it's simply some of the outcomes of the study, it's damming no matter what way you try and spin it. If you could stop following me around shouting, mins information, disinformation etc I'd appreciate.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/two-five-healthcare-workers-fear-33529054

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122557238#Comment_122557238

What you claimed it says: "over 40% of their staff surveyed thinks it causes serious harm"

What the survey actually says:

healthcare workers are worried that Covid-19 vaccines will cause serious side-effects.

There is a massive difference between stating something will be the case, and having a concern it might be.

You have misrepresented the results of the survey. That is spreading anti vax misinformation.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122557254#Comment_122557254

You're playing with words to confim your bias, the headline is "Two in five healthcare workers fear Covid-19 vaccine will have serious side-effects"

I said think, the survey says will, the paper says fears, it's all pretty much the same thing, the underlying theme reamins the same. The uptake stats tell the real story and they're abismal.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122557281#Comment_122557281

It is not "pretty much the same thing". Words have meaning.
Your previous claim is misinformation.

You confirm your bias in not engaging with the full content of the survey which shows broad support for vaccination.

You have jumped on a headline out of context purely because you think it is anti vax and says what you want it to say. It does not and is not.

magicbastarder

weird survey - if you'd said to me that article had been published in say sept 2020, fair enough. but 'fears vaccine will have serious side effects' several years after the vaccine was released?

and the survey was 'distributed'; common sense will tell you that people on different sides of a position will have differing rates of response.

only 46% of the respondents seem to explicitly stated to have had medical training. they don't state what the return rate on the survey was. as usual, it's the media making a meal of research which is probably a lot more complex than presented.