Posters getting banned for misgendering

plodder

Some good (ie sincere) posters have been banned from the "Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races." thread in Current Affairs for misgendering.

Personally, I am happy to use someone's pronouns which might be different to how I perceive them (and though I don't agree with gender ideology), but there could be cases where I'd prefer not to, eg. male prisoners declaring themselves to be women, so they can get into a women's prison, or cases that end up skewing statistics on male violence against women. So, the current policy doesn't seem to allow for that distinction.

It is also taking one side of a hotly contested debate.

My view would be that posters shouldn't be infracted for misgendering. The people concerned are hardly likely to notice and take offence. If that is too radical then there should at least be an exception for threads discussing the topic of gender itself.

Overheal

In many jurisdictions misgendering is sexual and/or workplace discrimination and some jurisdictions go as far to call it a human rights violation. It seems more than appropriate for the moderators to ensure it doesn't take place on this website, which nobody wants turning into a different colored stormfront.

plodder

But, this isn't a workplace. It's a discussion board. There's a difference between misgendering someone directly ie to their face, as opposed to misgendering a third party, ie a person you are talking about, especially when the topic of discussion is gender itself.

Oscar_Madison

I got banned from a thread for referencing a total fraud who conveniently changed their gender to suit their circumstance - it was an obvious fraud but that didn’t wash with the mods - oh no, I must reference them with their chosen gender title -so essentially the policy on boards is, if you want to be known as female just so you can watch other females undressing themselves, go ahead, we’ll support you.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122546748#Comment_122546748

Is there a difference between calling some public figure a n****r to their face or doing it in the 3rd person?

I don't see why the same common sense wouldn't apply to misgendering. Just because you imagine the person you're degrading wouldn't likely read the hate speech is no reason to tolerate it.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122546771#Comment_122546771

I see this thanked by the OP so we have the real reason for the thread. Look if your crusade is sexual predators I have a great website you can visit more often:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NotADragQueen/

there's a real problem you can go ragepost about at your leisure without using the veneer of sexual predation as the veener for othering transgender and queer folk.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058366305/posters-getting-banned-for-misgendering

"My view would be that posters shouldn't be infracted for misgendering. The people concerned are hardly likely to notice and take offence. If that is too radical then there should at least be an exception for threads discussing the topic of gender itself."

A transgender poster was referred to as "it" in a thread directly referencing them by their username recently. So no, I don't accept for a second that "They won't see it anyway" is a valid argument. And even if the actual person in question doesn't see the posts, trans posters will, and quite frankly, that's reason enough to ban deliberate misgendering.

And yes, I did report the post in question, before anyone asks. Twice, in fact, but it was still up as of yesterday.

Murt2024

Worlds gone Mad Ted. I'm happy for people to get on with their lives and respect them but doesn't mean I have to celebrate pride month or praise them.

Piers Morgan hasn't been cancelled for his views on it and I feel the same way he does.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122546924#Comment_122546924

Calling someone a n*****r is hate speech whatever way you do it.

I don't agree that referring to a person born male as him, is hate-speech. In some contexts it could be disrespectful, but in others it might simply be the right thing to do.

Is it hate-speech to say that crime statistics should be recorded by biological sex as opposed to self declared gender and refer to specific examples?

In relation to posters on this website, I'd accept the rule in that case.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122546934#Comment_122546934

The "real" reason for the thread is what I posted in the first sentence of the OP.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122546993#Comment_122546993

I don't agree that referring to a person born male as him, is hate-speech. In some contexts it could be disrespectful, but in others it might simply be the right thing to do.

You're poorly dissembling your argument in a bad faith way.

You want people to be free to misgender other people whom have made it clear what their pronouns are. We are not discussing for instance, calling a cisgender male 'him,' as your dissembling argues would 'simply be the right thing to do' - because obviously, that is that person's pronouns.

Also re: 'this isn't a workplace' is a load of bull, the threads you're active on and going on misgendering people on, and even in this thread indicate is about 'locker rooms' - are workplaces. The Sports industry etc. all relates to workplace. Professional athleticism is work. Your views seek to further workplace discrimination, that certain people need to undergo more invasive scrutiny, often of their private parts or genetics, based on how they look or present themselves. And almost exclusively only for female divisions, none of this 'concern' is generated for male sports, because again, this thin veneer of sexual predation and 'protecting women' etc., is all steeped in sexual discrimination. And calling someone "it" is never, ever "simply the right thing to do," you certainly won't find that language used by any courts of record for instance, the courts are reasonably objective places, even for defendants on trial for some of the crimes you imagine trans people get up to. I don't see how you defend calling someone "it" that simply is hate speech. If a judge called a defendant or a convicted felon "it" we would see them removed from the case or a mistrial declared for judicial bias/prejudice.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122547005#Comment_122547005

Some good (ie sincere) posters have been banned from the "Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races." thread in Current Affairs for misgendering.

Which makes it very clear you're discussing gender discrimination in professional sports ie. workplace discrimination.

plodder

I'll reply to post #11 later, but I just want to point out, I haven't been banned from any thread. I had one post deleted for misgendering. So, I reposted an edited version. No big deal in itself.

However, one problem with compelled speech is you can't tell what people are really thinking behind it. As I said above, I'm happy to refer to trans people by their desired gender most of the time. But, you're not going to know that on this site, because of the forced pronoun policy. It's a bit like back in the day, when the attendance rate for Sunday mass was higher than the percentage who believed in God (allegedly).

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122547136#Comment_122547136

What 'compelled speech?'

That's like acting like (to keep using my litmus test example) calling a Black person a Black person and not a n-word is 'compelled speech' which is just a roundabout way of saying you would want to be free to spew hate speech.

Not being allowed to gender discriminate, ie. calling someone "it" is not compelled speech.

Don't be a dick rule covers a lot of this, we wouldn't say common decency is 'compelled speech'

I'm happy to refer to trans people by their desired gender most of the time.

Then carry through and do it all of the time. Easy?

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122547057#Comment_122547057

This is beyond stupid

Dr Turk Turkelton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122547166#Comment_122547166

Let's be honest here- all their posts are.

awec

Boards is an inclusive site. It doesn't matter if the person you are talking about sees or doesn't see you misgender them, other trans people who use boards will see it.

This is about common decency and respect. You can use gender neutral pronouns like 'they', or if this still doesn't work for you then you can stay out of any threads where this is likely to become an issue for you.

Similar to how we will not permit references to third parties that are homophobic, racist or whatever else, we won't allow misgendering here either. Posters who misgender people will continue to be infracted and/or banned.

Thanks for raising the suggestion, however this is not a change we are going to make. Thread closed.