Tax Returns For My Mother's Estate

SourSessions

My mom passed away last September. I'm her personal representative and in the last few weeks probate has been granted. Her accountant had submitted her tax return and she was due a refund back of a little under €4000. That refund wasn't coming so I rang Revenue to see what the timeline for this kind of thing was and they told me it had been refused because apparently my mother didn't file returns for 2016-2019 (she went from back to work enterprise allowance to PAYE jobs and I think she didn't realize she was supposed to file). 2020-2023 were filed fine (how long she'd been with her current accountant).

The lady from Revenue on the phone gave me her earnings/tax paid figures for those years (she had two jobs one year and tax was paid for one but not the other (just under €5000 earned) - I vaguely remember her saying to me she didn't think her boss was paying her tax right but then she got the second job and left the first one. This was 2018 so my memory is fuzzy). The lady from Revenue just said to 'fill them out'. I didn't ask for anything further because 1) I didn't know the four-year rule and thought these would be straightforward forms to fill and 2) I thought her accountant would know what to do but he's proving difficult to reach (Understandably, he thought all of his part was done!) What is the situation if returns need to be submitted for over four years ago? What are the implications? I'll be continuing to try and reach the accountant next week but I'm stressing a lot over what this all means - the solicitor won't distribute funds without the death clearance certificate.

Thanks in advance for any information/advice!

SureYWouldntYa

She may have been requested to do a return in 2016, Revenue will at random request regular PAYE workers who would not normally file a return to file a return. This is probably why the 4 year rule does not apply in this case. If the 2016 return was not filed, this sometimes then leads to cases where they will request again the following year. The system is likely expecting these returns and the caseworker probably has their hands tied a little in terms of removing the block.

Check the figures you have against a tax calculator online and if there is anything between a refund due to your mother and a small balance payable, file the returns. Any balances due will likely be offset against the €4,000 due for the other tax return. They also wont issue a refund for 2016-2019 even if one is due as a result of the 4 year rule.

SourSessions

Thanks SureYWouldntYa. Forgive me for being stupid, I've never had to file a return before. I understand it's a Form 11 that needs to be filled in and submitted by paper (unless I can get in touch with her accountant who has access to her online account) but where do I find those pre-2019? I can only find 2019-2024. Might have to call Revenue again.

Thanks so much for your response, you definitely made things a bit clearer for me.

Lenar3556

Where is the €4000 refund arising from?

Sounds like there are income tax returns outstanding for these prior years. Revenue will likely accept them being filed by you as the executor of her estate. (I am presuming you hold this role?) Typically an executor requires a new profile on ROS in their capacity as executor of the estate when filing these Form 11’s.

SourSessions

That's great information Lenar3556 thank you. The refund is from her 2023 return (the year she died)

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122544128#Comment_122544128

Well if there is no liability arising on the old returns, that €4k should be collectable. It is within the 4year period for refunds.

You will be at somewhat of a disadvantage filing returns for a period 8 years ago. If there is evidence of income on which no tax was paid, that will most likely need to be declared now, and the tax paid, together with surcharges. Hopefully there isn’t too much of that.

SourSessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122544143#Comment_122544143

It seems tax was all compliant except for the one job of just under €5000 going by the figures revenue themselves gave me. Unfortunately there's no records of anything like that but they all look correct based roughly on how much I know she earned. I'm see if I can find more info on surcharges, hopefully it's not too crazy

SureYWouldntYa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122544096#Comment_122544096

I would imagine it is a Form 12 you should be completing for your mother rather than a Form 11, if she was a regular PAYE worker for these years

If the Form for each individual year isnt available online you can ask Revenue for the forms. I would imagine they would also accept a 2023 Form where you just scribble over the top and write in 2016, 2017 etc. as the details won't have changed much from year to year

SourSessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122544665#Comment_122544665

She had been registered for self assessment with her current accountant

SureYWouldntYa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545524#Comment_122545524

Yes apologies i missed the BTWEA in your initial post

My points are the same whether it is Form 11 or Form 12, there's a bit more to filing a Form 11 out but you should be able to do it if your accountant is not engaging.

SourSessions

Thanks SureYWouldntYa you've been incredibly helpful