Being forced out of current employment

Peterk88 · 20-08-2024 9:12pm #1

Hi,

just a quick question, I’m working with a company 7 years now. And recently they outsourced some jobs in the company, obviously it’s a lot cheaper than my salary and they are doing the same job as me. Iv found recently they are constantly looking over all my work and tried putting me on a PIP but I challenged it and won. It feels they are trying to force me out and blowing every simple situation out of proportion and put it back on me as if I’m the problem. A colleague told me today I’d be too expensive to give redundancy too and laughed saying it. I don’t know what to do it has me extremely stressed not knowing what they will throw at me day to day, I like my job and I don’t want to walk away from it easily after giving them so many years . If they offered me redundancy in the morning I’d be gone though. Does anyone have any advice what i shud do?

fritzelly · 20-08-2024 9:14pm

Stick it out (while job searching) - if they force you "out" one way or another take a case to the WRC, just have everything documented

SVI40 · 20-08-2024 9:36pm

Document everything, as soon as it happens. These notes are gold dust in the event you have to take a case.

i124Q · 20-08-2024 10:02pm

Don't quit. Ever. You got this. The Payout is coming...

Peterk88 · 20-08-2024 10:05pm

I was close to going out of work with stress to be honest. But I’m to stubborn

Mrs OBumble · 20-08-2024 10:48pm

Seven years is not too expensive to make redundant.

There's a payout coming.

But - how easy will it be to get a new job. If you get a offer then it may be better for your mental health to just leave.

CramCycle · 21-08-2024 6:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122526054#Comment_122526054

It could be expensive because it's not statutory, the job is still there and the poster is still able to do it. We don't have any details on OPs age, training, employability etc, which all make a difference in the discussions.

Taking everything at face value, the OP is competent, they have used the phrase PIP or PMP, then it is time to start looking for a new job.

Do not quit, take notes as others have said on everything, and remember your health is genuinely more important so if you have to take a break, go to a doctor and get signed off. At that point though, also talk to an employment solicitor.

Either way, take a deep breath, you are leaving there, not the way you would have liked but it will be easier the sooner you accept that.

Peterk88 · 21-08-2024 7:57am

it would be expensive for them as the industry average of redundancy in my sector is 2+8 weeks, also I was one of the first few employees in the door when it started business so I helped build it up which gives me more attachment I guess. If made redundant I know a clause of a non compete will also come in there as they know il take all of customers with me. Just iv never experienced any of this in my career before it’s all new to me.

Former Former Former · 21-08-2024 8:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122526411#Comment_122526411

they can’t make you redundant and then try to enforce a non-compete clause.

csirl · 21-08-2024 9:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122526411#Comment_122526411

If they offer a redundancy package or something similar, and you"re happy with it, when accepting it, respond in writing saying you'll accept in exchange for termination of your contract of employment. They'll probably not bat an eyelid or cop on to the use of words, but termination of your contract means every clause in the contract including non compete clauses.

Mrs OBumble · 21-08-2024 12:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122526263#Comment_122526263

The job is not still there, the opening post says it has been outsourced.

If this was in-country, then possibly the OP should have been TUPED into the new company- but this may not actually be in their best interests.

OP, if you want to take this further, then I suggest getting a solicitor with employment experience to represent you, and being very clear about what your goals are. Some people always want to save jobs but it sounds like this isn't your goal. A negotiated exit from the company should be entirely possible, with you getting a lump of cash, an excellent reference, and no non-compete clause. The solicitor will advise other things to consider.

And stop thinking small. 7 years will NOT be expensive to make redundant, no matter what deal you have. 27 years would be. 7 isn't.

CramCycle · 21-08-2024 12:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527603#Comment_122527603

It may not be possible to be TUPE'd over and they don't say he has been outsourced, just that they have outsourced some roles. It will not be as cheap as statutory redundancy and they know it as the OP would get a decent employment solicitor, and you would be paying their fees on top of the over statutory redundancy they would get.

This said if they can get it substantially cheaper, the company should have went that route of voluntary redundancy, cost them more in the short term but PIP and PMPs require someone with experience to pull them off and it doesn't sound like that is the case. Make a mistake in a PIP, one wrong word and it is constructive dismissal (which is what PIPs are but you don't get sued for them if you do it right).

An employer can end an employment in a scenario like this but it is easier and safer to offer a voluntary redundancy as compensation, but if the economic and organisational needs are there, it isn't illegal but the opportunity for error and an unfair dismissal case going against you are a foolish risk to take.

Either way, there is no saving a job once a PIP has been mentioned unless in very extreme cases, the job is gone, the next move is acceptance and planning for the way out that leaves the OP in a decent position. It is easier to get a job when you have one, so don't walk, and get an employment solicitor if it looks like you need to take sick leave due to their behaviour.

daheff · 21-08-2024 1:54pm

Don't be kidding yourself. Nobody is too expensive to be made redundant in Ireland. They don't need to pay you more than 2 weeks per year of service + another week, all capped at 600 EUR a week. Even if you had 40 years of service that equates to 81 weeks @ 600 EUR which is 48k.

Thats nothing to a company. They'll probably save that in the outsourcing in a year or two.

Anything above the 2 weeks/600 EUR is at the company's discretion.

Hell even for unfair/constructive dismissal case, any award is limited to the first 2 years of lost income. If you get a job inside that 2 years anything you earn there is offset against the award.

Its only where you are let go for one of the 9 grounds of discrimination that you might make any kinda money in Ireland.

so OP….when are you going to start identifying as a pregnant black female traveller muslim lesbian?

HurlingBoy · 21-08-2024 2:11pm

7 years in not long service in the greater scheme of things. Certainly not long enough to hang around in a job if you are stressed. Max I have heard of for redundancy package is 7 years per year service so that would be 49 weeks which includes the 2 year statutory. It would probably take a least 4/5 months to find a new job. If you had 10 years plus it might be worth hanging on.

Ray Palmer · 21-08-2024 2:55pm

OP> What is the size of the company? Depending on the size the redundancy may cost them actually nothing as they have to have that in a separate fund. They certainly don't have give you "industry norms" only statutory.

Oscar_Madison · 21-08-2024 3:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365333/being-forced-out-of-current-employment

Did you have issues in the past or is this something new? (The checking your work/PIP thing)

How have your appraisals been in the past?

How has been your relationships with your boss(es) in the last year?

It seems strange to me that if they like you, think you’re good at what you do, but they no longer need you, that they’d be treating you this way.

If others are now doing your job or similar why are you still there? Shirley that would have triggered a redundancy offer or TUPE to another outsourced company?

BraveDonut · 21-08-2024 3:11pm

Others have mentioned taking notes of every interaction with management that relate to this situation.
Fully agree with this.
My approach would be to record the 'minutes' of these meetings and share them with your manager immediately afterwards. If they have any cop on, they will realise what you are preparing for and may back off from the micromanagement

HurlingBoy · 21-08-2024 3:32pm

A PIP is never good and is most often the first step to being shown the door unfortunately unless you have a change of manager or change in job responsibilities that you can turn around. Depending on the company there would be alot of review appraisals before you would be put on a PIP e.g 3 years of reviews of below expectations would put you on a PIP. If you have been working away fine for 7 years without poor review it sounds suspicious to be put on a PIP all of a sudden.

con___manx1 · 21-08-2024 3:42pm

tell them out straight that you know what they are trying to do and that you are documenting everything. The payout will come fast.

Peterk88 · 09-09-2024 11:39am

well people, it came last Friday my position no longer exists, iv now appealed the decision. Next step is meeting this week where offer will be made to me, and il give them my offer on what I think. Thinking shud I get a solicitor. Any help appreciated thanks

Calahonda52 · 09-09-2024 11:48am

A non-compete clause is very different from stealing the customer contact details and the associated IP.

Terminating the employment contract as suggested will kill the NC clause but not theft

Download their details are your peril and if you do start stealing them, they will bury u with a court case and make you unemployable.

You don't need a lawyer until you see the size of their gun.

Peterk88 · 09-09-2024 12:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122597102#Comment_122597102

sorry I don’t know what your on about ? I’m being made redundant I’m not stealing anything and have no interest in the info they have as it was me who inputted most of it in the first place

AndrewJRenko · 09-09-2024 1:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122597068#Comment_122597068

A solicitor is only really of use to you if it's not a genuine redundancy situation, or they can negotiate a better deal for you. If others have been made redundant, it's likely the company have a standard package, x weeks per year of service, perhaps with some additional supports on retraining or job searching.