2 child cap UK welfare - Ireland no cap welfare

Quitelife

The UK today voted to stick with the cap of welfare for a maximum of 2 children which is a bit severe but in Ireland people who never worked a day in their lives can have 10 or 12 children all paid for by the tax payer …, meanwhile those working can’t afford to have children … sums up our state !!

**Threadbans**

Ezeoul

Buddy Bubs

They're taxed through cigarettes and scratch cards though

highpitcheric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058361122/2-child-cap-uk-welfare-ireland-no-cap-welfare

UK absolutely right on this.

I mean you get 2 chances. If you need to stick the hand out thereafter it means you're reckless and self centered. And should be told where to go.

Padre_Pio

What's the point of the thread? You're complaining that some women are getting money to have kids while complaining it's too expensive for other women to have kids.

The country needs to encourage people to have children, and there are far far more genuine working couples with more than 2 children that scroungers.

And it's not "reckless" to have more than two children.

Just another austerity move by the Brits to make the working poor even poorer.

Jequ0n

It’s a reasonable decision, and I couldn’t care less about the “poor children living in poverty” whinging. The cap doesn’t mean that those families don’t get any benefits any more.

It would be interesting to see how many affected families will suddenly try to claim disability allowance for ludicrous reasons like the ever increasing adhd trend.

Potential-Monke

Dead right. People who can't close their legs/pull out in time popping out kids they're incapable of looking after and expecting the state to pick up the tab. I think Ireland should vote on it, going forward limit it to 2. For the ones who already have a hape, limit it to no-more. Won't happen though.

CelticRambler

For contrast: in France, the first child doesn't count, you get nothing. It's only when you have a second that you start to get "children's allowance" and there are extra benefits if you have more than three.

Hasn't made any significant difference to the fertility rate over the course of a few decades, nor to the habits of benefit scroungers.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058361122/2-child-cap-uk-welfare-ireland-no-cap-welfare

Ah, that's basic. People who are content to live in poverty, have no ability to plan for the future, go on interesting trips with the children, have education funds for the children, have no investments or retirement fund and so on, can have more children.

Those who work don't have more children because they're not content to live in poverty. Children are expensive.

As a country we need more children. We either need to accept that we won't have what our parents generation would call a middle class/comfortable lifestyle, or else we need to make work pay a lot more.

El_Duderino 09

Es we need more children to run the country. I'll bet the same people oppose making work pay more. Bet they're not in favour of unions and don't support public sector pay increases (where the government can actually directly cause higher pay for working people)

tom1ie

I wonder are there any stats showing how many children born to families claiming SW go on themselves to claim SW vs working full time and being a contributor to the economy. (For the sake of this argument of course I acknowledge the SW claimants contribute to tax by paying VAT argument).

rogber

Yes people on social benefits definitely need to have an upper child limit, 2 or preferably 1.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418851#Comment_122418851

I doubt there are stats on how many children born to families claiming SW go on themselves to claim SW vs working full time and being a contributor to the economy. Claiming SW is transitory. I doubt thee are many people who only visit SW and never work and loads of people who claim SW a few times in their lives in periods between work. So the stars would be messy and probably wouldn't support your point as you hope.

But I'd also imagine that children of parents who work consistently are more likely to work consistently themselves.

Would you support spending more money on the children of unemployed parents to give them the skills and education they need to break the cycle?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058361122/2-child-cap-uk-welfare-ireland-no-cap-welfare

…absolutely, we have a refusal to accept the states part in these outcomes, the fact that many lower on the socioeconomic scale have simply never had their needs met, from serious traumas, including generational traumas, which simply leads to even more long term dysfunctions including long term unemployment, long term mental health issues, which of course leads into criminality by some, but no rush in trying to resolve these issues, shur tis only taxpayers money……

JVince

The biggest issue in having a very low value social welfare system like you have in Britain and Northern Ireland is that it encourages crime in a certain cohort and those who try and keep to the rules find themselves in abject poverty - so much so that teenage girls can't afford sanitary items and families can't afford food some days.

Whilst the Irish system is generous and some do take advantage of it, overall it is far far better for all of us and most of the money gets recycled into the economy.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418995#Comment_122418995

…absolutely, by not providing such folks with their needs, this significantly increases the likelihood of criminal outcomes, along side other serious dysfunctions such as long term unemployment, long term health issues, including and in particular mental health issues, addiction problems, which in turn just increases pressure on our major social systems such as our health and legal systems, which of course ultimately ends up costing the taxpayer even more in the long run…..

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418699#Comment_122418699

No it doesn't, if the country were to encourage more people to have children then things will definitely get worse, we need lots of housing first and then young taxpayers not children due to the huge cost of raising children.

Shan Doras

14 years of Tory Slash and burn is nothing to be proud of. Ireland has gone in a completely different direction, just last May, our government extended Child Benefit to parents of over 18s still in education.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418995#Comment_122418995

That's the thing. There's a much more pronounced demonization of anyone getting help from the state here, culminating in the performative cruelty of austerity in the coalition government years. The result is that deprived parts of the UK are much worse than their equivalents in Ireland.

A functioning welfare state is vital to any country and those on welfare tend to spend most of it anyway, as you've said, so it'll find its way into the economy very quickly.

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419050#Comment_122419050

Just to keep our population steady, the replacement rate is 2.1 children per woman.

Gusser09

Short sighted thread. Or medium sighted thread. I'd agree in principle that we need to weed out the perennial scroungers. But we should be encouraging and enticing the middle classes to have more children in order to help for the big pension disaster coming down the tracks.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419065#Comment_122419065

Maybe the way to go is to make child benefit for over-16s conditional on fultime education or apprenticeship or training.

Limiting benefit to 2 children at a time when birth rates are below the replacement rate is not just cruel , but crazy. Associating large families with scroungers is a prejudicial and stupid, the sort of thing a MAGA clown would advocate.

Supercell

We have three kids, both of us work full time and the child benefit is a great benefit to us. I would expect our kids to be tax paying members of society just like their parents always have been. It's definitely helped with buying clothes and I'd bet, putting food on the table for some.

I'd say for the vast majority of parents, of which the vast majority are working, it is greatly appreciated.

silverharp

Switch relief to the tax system , seems simple enough

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418935#Comment_122418935

I would support whatever brings the most economic benefit to the country.
If that means spending more money on the children of the unemployed so that they will then better themselves and contribute to the economy then yes I’d be all up for that.
I wonder are there any stats showing this effect though?

beggars_bush

Should be conditional on the children having good attendance at school.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419050#Comment_122419050

Right, if you're waiting for the government to sort out housing then you're in for a long wait for 2 reasons but both amount to voters wouldn't reward it.

1. Home owners tend to be older people. Hone owners are very happy indeed to see the value of their house rise and wouldn't praise a politician who brags about building so many houses that their house price has frozen.

2. It would cost a lot of money to invest in houses and people with higher earnings also tend to be older (up to retirement age anyway). And they would be hit with higher tax or reduced services to pay for building houses and associated services like schools, roads, hospitals etc.

In the meantime, we need more children to run the country and pay tax when the current adults get old and start needing more and more services like health and pension age services.

Don't wait for housing to start addressing population because you'd be waiting for Godot

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419152#Comment_122419152

…what if those kids find school extremely traumatising and stressful?

beggars_bush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419167#Comment_122419167

Cause mammy and daddy won't send them in? Going back can be stressful

In this day and age there are practically no schools that are traumatizing. That's ridiculous

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419179#Comment_122419179

seriously! and what is your current employment that provides you with this 'informed opinion'? ask any sna or people working in the field how severe trauma effects some within our educational system, which can lead to long term absenteeism, and other long term effects, beyond education…..

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419129#Comment_122419129

Does education correlate with career and earnings? Yes, yes it does.

It's not simple though because household culture contributes to educational attainment. A household which values education is an advantage.

Tge single strongest correlationwith a child's education level (degree, PhD, leaving cert etc.) is their mother's education level. So it's a 3 generation problem to get a population from workless household with low education to working with high education.

It woukd mean making schools in low work/education areas, the best in the country so those children can overcome the disadvantages through were born into. Devilish expensive. Still interested?

Quitelife

As a Doctor said recently " All the wrong people are having Children "

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419260#Comment_122419260

…yup, a highly ignorant doctor, a doctor thats not aware of the complexities of social structures, noting doctors tend to be of higher class, hence very disconnected from the needs of lower classes, also noting, doctors dont know everything, but we ve managed to place them on a pedestal, some are also highly narcissistic…..

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419260#Comment_122419260

And?

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419154#Comment_122419154

We don't need more children, maybe your forgetting about the huge sum of money is costs the government to get them to 18 with no guarantee of a return on this investment.

dulpit

Jesus some people are just horrible, aren't they?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058361122/2-child-cap-uk-welfare-ireland-no-cap-welfare

I have said for year 3, but 2 I wouldn't mind either

Unfortuneatly a number of people just see children as an extra income and the welfare is not given to the children

Remove it is the best option

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419305#Comment_122419305

Children's allowance is €140 a month. Do you think that receiving this covers the cost of raising a child?

French Toast

Seems reasonable.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419304#Comment_122419304

…some are seriously lacking in empathy and compassion for others, some are in fact highly narcissistic……

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419305#Comment_122419305

…so you want to try exasperate these situations, which would result in worsening health issues, including mental health issues, addiction problems and probably crime to….

…great plan!

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419324#Comment_122419324

So removing it will make no difference

beggars_bush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419204#Comment_122419204

Most absenteeism is caused by mammy and daddy giving their child a couch day or not being bothered to bring them to school

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419340#Comment_122419340

Better plan than anything you came up with

Not having children will increase addition…..

foxsake

its amazing people are enraged about people getting child benefit for having kids - kids being the future of our society and all that….

its financially tough having kids for many , why begrudge them a small payment to fulfill a natural desire for many - to have kids.

yet some of you will have no issue with the government splurging money on all matter of crap that is not required.

child welfare should be increased.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419305#Comment_122419305

No it isn't, its the cruel and sadistic option cause people don't like the kinds of people receiving the benefit and would rather some kids suffer than the idea that perceived scroungers benefit.

Having more kids in poverty is never going to be economically beneficial in the long term.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419303#Comment_122419303

I'm Not. Maybe you're forgetting about the much higher cost of keeping a pensioner for their last decades?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419382#Comment_122419382

Im not enraged.

If you can't afford kids you shouldn't have them.

It's nothing to do with other government spend and more to do with the life of the children. The parents should be able to afford the childern without welfare. Simple.

beggars_bush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419324#Comment_122419324

Is it meant to cover the full cost? No.

Its €1680 per year. Easily covers all clothes, shoes for a year.

Children U7 have free gp care. If you are eligible you get almost free prescriptions

Food costs are extra, but sure you're already buying food for adults so it's only a few more bits on top of it.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419395#Comment_122419395

Everyone receives children benefit now, so not sure what you are talking about "don't like the kinds of people receiving the benefit"

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419363#Comment_122419363

That's incredible logic.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419418#Comment_122419418

And you are suggesting we change that by capping it and coming in with the usual stories about people having kids as a source of income. That's a pretty clear sweeping value judgement right there.

It costs the exchequer a relatively small amount of money in the grand scheme of things and helps alleviate child poverty.