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F1 2024 - Round 14 - Belgium - Spa Francorchamps

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    Poor Georgio



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭oceanman


    Cant really see the point swapping out one clapped out driver for another, Ricciardo is well past it at stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,643 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    I just watched the race and was so entertained.

    Checked the news…for feck sake. Russell was mega today, what a shame.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    The point is who is going to score more points for the team in the second half of the season. No guarantee that a rookie would score any points. This is the reason they've stuck with Perez, but now they have to decide if another driver would do better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,643 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Toto did not look happy as Russell crossed the line either, poor poker face.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,301 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Well all I can say is I am thankful that that other little prick did not win. Well done Russell.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,025 ✭✭✭This is it




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,301 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,301 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Awe that's a pity but sure Hamilton was happy I am sure.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Always a good idea to read back at least a few posts on a thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    P2 for Piastri who is quality these days. Cut out a few rookie mistakes and he is a title challenger next year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Sky thought it was a good thing but I hope the extra 75mtrs on the drs is added back for next year, if you can gain over half a second a lap to catch only to lose grip in the turbulent air and not be able to pass doesn't seem fair.

    If the overtaken car can keep up and re overtake well done but the faster car should win. Correct result for me in the end for the win, but Norris should have been ahead of both Max and Leclerc and Max ahead of Leclerc.

    Ferrari's race pace compared to qualifying continues to bewilder me..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,643 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    On this, he really was not happy, nor did it look like Toto was.

    Hamilton was great as well today, a real turn around for him since Silverstone. I am sure his move to Ferrari was for a new challenge, but seeing Mercedes improve like this, must be a weird feeling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭Gamb!t


    Certainly looks that way.

    Merc look to be heading back in the right direction Ferrari limping along.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,822 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    Gutted for George . Though in the cool down room Hamilton looked annoyed and slightly rude to Oscar



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,808 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Perez started 2nd and finished 8th (on the road). In a red bull. Ricciardo had questionable strategy and went from 13th to 11th (on the road) in an RB which is clearly not a great car.

    Perez is clearly under performing in his car, you can make an argument that both Ricciardo and Tsunoda can out perform theirs.

    With the championship where it is, it's worth the gamble to get somebody who will likely be much closer to Max on track. Whether that's Yuki, Danny Ric or Lawson is something red bull need to know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭Gamb!t




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    I think they screwed Perez on strategy today, and he was also complaining of power issues. This could have been a half decent race for him today otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Perez had a crap start and went downhill after that. He is done. I like Checo, one of my favourite drivers but I think his time is up at Red Bull.

    Danny Ric Or Yuki would do no worse and at least they have a chance to see what they can do before deciding for next year.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    That might have been an adequate excuse earlier in the season, but not now. Only for Russell's DQ, he'd be 8th in the championship behind both McLarens, both Ferraris and both Mercs. He's 160 points behind his team mate and has distinguished himself by being indistinguishable from the mid-grid runners.

    Red Bull have been betting on a losing horse all season. Hard to know what value is left in continuing that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭thefa


    It did seem significantly harder to pull off overtakes this year. Perhaps the gap in pace between the front runners closed so much in the last year (and the big DRS superiority Red Bull had), it should have been left alone. It turned into an interesting tactical race though and was enjoyable.

    I think the conditions in quali helped LeClerc perform so well. Done well to hang onto 4th (now 3rd) but, as you say, the limited overtakes helped.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,643 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    One journalist said it was 0.375kg per tyre that got Russell the DQ, ouch. Lack of proper setup and running meant that they didn’t factor that into their running.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,106 ✭✭✭muckwarrior


    Im not particularly a fan of Russell, but I'm gutted for him after that. He engineered a brilliant victory for himself and seemed genuinely ecstatic with the win.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,135 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    Maybe they were supposed to add the ballast at the 2nd stop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,300 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    He spent so long on the hard tyres that the weight was lost through tyre wear? That’s so unlucky. Apparently none of the teams had even considered a 1 stop being an option before the race so I guess they didn’t have it fully worked out, then Russell suggests it on the radio mid race and they just went for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Alonso and Tsunoda did one stops with no issues, the problem seems to be Mercedes changing plan mid race..

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/were-russells-worn-tyres-the-cause-of-his-spa-f1-disqualification/10640095/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,544 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    surely the minimum weight of the car should be based on a tyreless car? I am genuinely surprised they would have to take into account the weight of the rubber lost when that is such a variable in terms of tyre deg. They don't use fuel remaining as part of the weight, so why tyre remaining?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,544 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Hamilton annoyed he didn't win cause he couldnt get past his team mate and (incorrectly imo) maybe felt screwed by the strategy?

    Piastri annoyed he didn't win cause of stupid mistake at the pit stop.

    That would be my read on it, simply neither were at all happy with finishing where they did and not in the mood to make nice.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,808 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    I guess you can make an argument whether or not they should be included when weighing car (it would lead to complications on how do you weigh the car without tyres though - how do they get on/off the weigh bridge?) but fact is that the rules as they are now include them and Mercedes knew this and didn't bring any sort of mitigation factors to the stewards. Fair cop I'd say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,544 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    I'm not aruing they didn't breach - its absolutely a fair cop. I just find it odd you include an element that loses weight by design in your decision of whether a car is minimum weight.

    Though imo, the minimum weight should be considered at the beginning, not the end. There are probably a billions ways clever F1 people could completely game that though - re. fuel levels or barge boards that wear away etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,533 ✭✭✭NinjaTruncs


    Hamilton isn't used to having a team mate who is treated as an equal, he's too used to Bottas being told to move over for him or Bottas being told he can't have a different strategy to Hamilton during the race.

    4.3kWp South facing PV System. South Dublin



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭Dave0301


    Moving to Ferrari to race against Leclerc will work out well then!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,808 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    I've seen a few people on social media giving out about how Hamilton was treated versus Russell yesterday. From my untrained eye Russell pushed for the one-stopper and Hamilton didn't, so what would you expect? Mercedes tends to allow their drivers race too, and if the race had gone for one more lap you feel Hamilton would have been attacking Russell anyway.

    Also - at some point soon Hamilton will stop getting access to all of the Mercedes info, he is leaving at the end of the season like…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,906 ✭✭✭Joeface


    A lot more did one stops that I thought
    Russell, Alonso , Stroll , Magnuseen , Tsunoda ( < and his were used don't know if that was just one lap on them prior to the race)
    Russell did the most laps on them Followed by Stroll .

    Anyway . Enjoyed the race for most of it if not a bit dull at times or I just felt we missed out on some proper battles that almost happened along the way . the next three weeks will be the poor level of Motorsport click bate journalism .

    anyway Dutch GP next , a sea of Orange …but which Orange will cross the line then or will it be Hamilton some how creeping into a championship while we are all looking at Max and Lando battle



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,124 ✭✭✭✭klose


    I guess it’s just one of the things teams have to take into account when planning a race, wear your tyres down to nothing on a risky 1 stop and face the risk of being below weight as Mercedes found out the hard way.

    Same with fuel in a way, teams purposely under fuel the cars in hopes for safety cars etc to shed weight, under fuel it too much and you’re screwed.


    It would be interesting to see the weights of Alonso and Strolls cars, they done 2 and 3 laps respectively less on the hards on the 1 stop. Was it a case of just a couple laps too many for Russell wearing down his tyres?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    More likely that they could have got tows during the race, running in midfield. Dirty air or no, there's much more potential to save fuel. And of course their engineering teams might have actually paid attention to fuel usage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,544 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Fuel usage wasn't an issue though - Russel had enough and the car is weighed without it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,898 ✭✭✭Inviere


    You should probably go back & watch the 2007, 2010, & 2014-2016 seasons - he's plenty of experience with team mates who aren't/didn't see themselves as #2's.

    Merc, by leaving Russel on low fuel to fight hard against Hamilton on fresh tires, is likely what blew the 1/2 result. It mightn't have been the moral thing to do (doubly so as Hamilton is the exiting driver & they likely wanted to keep Russel's spirits high), but from a team management perspective, knowing Russel was marginal on fuel, the correct call would have been to allow Lewis to pass, and have George benefit from DRS & slipstream for the last handful of laps.

    It was all things considered an inspired call by George, and he drove brilliantly, but whether he blew it by not lifting & coasting as Lewis did, or if Merc blew it by allowing him to run nearly dry defending, it was a bit of a let down for the team by the end.

    Post edited by Inviere on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,806 ✭✭✭quokula


    They used to weight at the start and the teams absolutely gamed it. Back in the day there were teams with "water cooling" systems that dumped the water to drop their weight as soon as the race got going. Even when they switched to weighing the cars after the race Mercedes themselves found a way to cheat, under their previous ownership of BAR, when they had a secret second fuel tank in the car so they could meet minimum weight when the car was "empty" at the end but it was actually full of fuel that they'd put in at the last pitstop so they were only ever running a legal car for the final stint.

    The tyre thing is overplayed though. I can think of dozens of times drivers have stretched things out to a previously unintended one stop. There was even a race a couple of years ago when Albon changed tyres on lap one and then effectively did the whole race on one set. I remember similar from Rosberg at Mercedes one time. Never ever has the issue of tyre wear pushing the car under the minimum weight come up.

    And Russell still had pretty competitive pace at the end of the race which is indicative that the tyre wasn't exactly worn down to the carcass or anything. Half the field at Spa outside of the top 8 also only stopped once without issue, which seems to have gone unnoticed. It's perfectly normal to finish a race with heavily worn tyres, in fact this is preferable as you're not leaving pace on the table, so cars should always have a weight that allows for this.

    Having missed out on adequate preparation due to the rained out practice, the teams were actually expecting much higher tyre wear than they actually had, hence all the really early stops in the first stint before realising there was loads more rubber left on the tyres. This came up on radio a few times. So Russell likely finished with about the correct amount of rubber according to pre-race forecast, while Hamilton and the others behind had "too much" rubber left on their tyres, something Lewis himself complained about on the radio.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,808 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    If it wasn't the tyres that caused them to be underweight, what did?

    Not enough ballast to begin with?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭standardg60


    There's a first time for everything, Brundle stated it's totally conceivable that the unplanned one-stop led to the car being underweight. All Lewis said during the race was that the tyres were still good, not that they would last till the end. He only moaned afterwards about having loads left because he didn't win. Of course, he's not moaning now.

    There is no chance that Russell finished with Mercedes' pre-race forecast tyre wear, cos they never forecasted a one-stop in the first place. All the strategists did was forecast during the race that Russell was going to finish 5th at worst stopping or not, no one thought about tyre wear being an issue.

    As for others doing a one-stop, it's already been mentioned so not missed. Maybe theirs were forecast, maybe they were lucky, or maybe they weren't pushing like fcuk for the remaining laps.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Enough to meet scrutineering requirements (2.8l I believe), but maybe not enough to meet the overall weight limit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    The car weight is with an empty fuel tank. So either the 1 stopper was the issue with regards to tyres or they just miscalculated something else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,806 ✭✭✭quokula


    Wear is not the same thing as distance. They expected the tyres to wear out fast. They didn’t. Hence a third of the field were able to comfortably do one stops and a number of drivers and teams doing two stops talked about there being a lot of rubber left on the tyres they discarded.

    It is perfectly conceivable in an environment where tyre wear was much lower than expected that a car doing one stop incurred a similar amount of wear to what was projected of a car making one stop. The amount of additional grip left in the tyres of those who two stopped was surprising, Hamilton wasn’t the only one that mentioned it, Max mentioned it too.

    The key thing to consider is laptime, and Russell was competitive at the end and able to hold off Lewis. This implies that his tyres were still in somewhat reasonable shape and not worn down to the limit. There have been many many races where cars finished with tyres that were much more heavily worn without being underweight, and the goal when it comes to tyre wear is always to extract the absolute max amount of grip you can from them so it is normal to finish on heavily worn tyres, regardless of number of stops.

    The issue was absolutely some miscalculation in the car setup and not a simple consequence of running what turned out to be the optimal strategy for the track conditions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Merc said the weight issue was a combination of plank wear, oil loss, tyre wear and Russell losing more weight then anticipated caused the DQ



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