Soccer Feedback Thread 2024

ShamoBuc

The Soccer Feedback thread for 2024 is now open. The purpose of this thread is for forum members to have an opportunity to provide constructive feedback about the forum and set out how you would like the Soccer Forum to be improved.

Timeline:

This thread will be locked next Friday week and will be reviewed by the Mods, Cmods and Admins.

Current Soccer Mods are - artanevilla, dfx-, DM_7, Necro and whiterebel.

Last year there were 6,800 Soccer users, currently around 6,900, visibilty is still the same, with a link to Soccer Access thread listed with all the other sports on the home page. Vanilla has limitations for Groups, where Soccer will remain.

The Soccer Charter was updated so Warnings only go back 2 years on a rolling basis - based on feedback.

Rules:

Trolling, abuse or breaches of the charter in this thread will be an immediate infraction and 2 week ban for anyone who breaches the rules. If you want to post in this thread you are agreeing to accept this rule, we want this thread to run smoothly as its in all your interests.

Couple of basic ground rules before we get going:

(1) This isn't a platform to attack individuals or Moderators. This isn't to turn into a witch hunt against people you don't like. This is your chance to tell us what we should or should not be doing.

(2) If someone makes a point that you don't agree with then either respond in a constructive manner with a decent counter-point or don't respond at all. Attempted witty one liners to undermine an argument are pointless and will not be tolerated. Most of the time you think you're being funny, you're not. If you think it's not a good idea outline reasons why you think it's not going to work instead of dragging the thread wildly off topic.

(3) Please, when you're making a point take a second to THINK about it and make sure it's what you actually want. So make sure when you're asking for something to happen that you realise it's going to effect you too, not just other users.

(4) As usual, we'll be using 'Thanks' to work out what suggestions seem the most supported, so if you agree what someone says thank their post and it gives us a better idea and makes it easier to keep track that trying to add up loads of individual posts. This is your chance to have your say so if you have an issue and you think it needs to be resolved mention it, but please remember this isn't a place to grind your axe, try be constructive in your input.

(5) Let's have a grown up discussion.

Pauliedragon

I'd like to go back to individual match threads instead of for example last night the Euro thread is page after page of "thats not a yellow" or "ref is crap there". If you arent logged in while the match is on you have to scroll through page after page of mid match discussion which is irrelevant after full time. I'm not saying people shouldn't be posting such things but I think a specific thread like we used to would make things neater.

rob316

Open up the forum, its absolutely dead.

bucketybuck

Both feedback threads since the move to Vanilla noted how dead the forum is and highlighted the obvious problem that the forum is hidden and private. Nothing has ever been done to address this.

Will there ever be any intention to try and increase traffic? Is it wrong to believe that some people prefer that it just stay quiet?

Its literally been years, if nothing is ever going to be tried then I think Boards should just be upfront about that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058302652/soccer-feedback-thread-2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058253225/soccer-forum-feedback-2022

LuckyLloyd

The forum is seeing dramatically reduced traffic year on year, with lack of fresh voices and perspectives. Open it up to the main page or watch it slowly die.

Iseedeadpixels

Is it possible to open the forum but limit to posters with an account date older than a month to avoid trolls?

Acosta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122386928#Comment_122386928

Something needs to happen. Its far too quiet for a football forum.

DM_7

If anyone has an example of a sports forum on boards that is flourishing as a result of its placement in the public category [rather than private category] that would be really helpful.

I don't spend that much time on other boards forums overall, I have looked some at threads in sub forums of some of the major sports within the sport category and I am not seeing stand outs for volume of posts.

GAA all Ireland threads appear to have less posts than the euro 24 thread would have over the last month. Team super threads in Rugby are no busier than soccer, are far lower on posts numbers but match threads would impact that.

[Looking at other forums and match threads are the item that stand out as different to me and that might be worth trying again.]

El Gato De Negocios

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122386928#Comment_122386928

I believe with Vanilla it's either a private forum (ie the current version) or its fully open.

So that means the mods have to control manually. Considering the small number of mods that will likely mean huge headaches for them considering the tribal nature of football. But as others have said, without doing something the forum will continue to circle the drain.

Ideally it would be opened up for a fixed trial period of time eg 2 months, and see what it's like. If it's a dumpster fire make it private again.

That would probably require additional mods.

I believe there was a general Euros thread in AH, what was it like in terms of nonsense?

A potential way to handle opening the forum up would be to implement a zero tolerance policy to crap.

Eg, any infractions / warnings within a 3 month period of a user's first post on the forum automatically triggers a 3 month forum ban, something of that nature.

The fact remains, without trying something it's destined to fail.

NITRO95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122387260#Comment_122387260

I like this idea of opening up and any infractions in the first 3 months result in an instant ban. Then say if you pick up 2 infractions/ warnings within your first season 9 months, the average length of a season, it's a permanent ban. Something needs to be done because right now it's the same voices having the same arguments on a daily basis

Necro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122387260#Comment_122387260

Yep it has come up before and due to the platforms limitations it's either hidden away via a group as we currently are, or open access for all.

I've no problem with trialling something more open access. Whether that's something that Boards wants (or indeed doesn't want) though is the other issue.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122387235#Comment_122387235

It's football though. The appetite for conversation on it is unrivalled by other sports. I have no illusions that young people are going to come in and start posting on a forum, but any diversity and new faces would be good. We want people coming in around big matches and moments. Yes some of the extra chat will be nonsense or trolling, but certainly not all of it.

DM_7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122387726#Comment_122387726

It is not about a perceived appetite for football, it needs to be more evidence based.

Right now we have a forum that, in the past, had to become restricted access on boards due to how boards users were utilising the forum.

One idea put forward now is to do away with the restriction. I think we need to be able to at least point to where the open forum works well elsewhere on boards if we were to consider that change.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122388011#Comment_122388011

You are requesting evidence for a hypothetical that doesn't exist. There are no other sports forums that were made private, so I can't give you an example of a forum that flourished once it was put back to public.

What I can tell you is numbers are way down in here, cross fan interactions are way down, diversity and freshness of conversation is virtually non existent. It's an ever dwindling bunch of the same aging heads talking the same old talk back and forth.

Boards usership in general is way down and the demographic is getting greyer and greyer. In the mid 2000's when the forum was originally made private, we had teenagers and men in their early twenties coming in here to argue about football. The tone of that conversation was poor, and putting access restrictions in place made sense. There is no avalanche of teenagers coming this time. Instead, we would just be creating the possibility that the remaining user base, such as it is, can pop into chat about soccer while the big match is on. And that cannot be a net negative, at this stage.

DM_7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122388064#Comment_122388064

I have not asked for an example of a sports forum that went from private to public. I asked for one that is public and doing well that may back up the perception that poster growth can be achieved, that the new posters would be good for the forum, by moving to public.

Maybe it does not exist but I think we need more to go on than a perception it will be better or attributing behaviours amongst the users as related to the private status. Changing to public and back to private won't be an option so we have to get it right.

The user base, as it is, can request access to (pretty) soccer easily. We have a post on the main page explaining where to access, we have a soccer access forum under sports so the forum can be found under that category and on a Google search.

I have said enough on it now, I did not intend to dominate discussion of feedback.

Cross fan interactions are mainly down due to the match discussion being allowed take place in the super threads destroying the match threads for better or worse.

2 warnings over 2 years getting someone a ban also isn't conducive to keeping people around.

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122388187#Comment_122388187

/r/soccer on reddit does well, rarely see rival fans get into huge barneys and does be good craic at times, tbf you need a certain karma level to post so that helps which boards hasn't got.

ShamoBuc

Match threads is certainly something that might come back for bigger games.

Opening it up to only posters who have a month onsite - to prevent Trolls - is not an option that is available. By keeping it as a Group, we are preventing exactly that as Access is not given to a poster with less than a month or 50 posts currently.

There really isn't some huge group of Soccer Posters on Boards that would suddenly want to post in a Soccer Forum if they had open access - there really isn't. If it is too much hassle for them to post 'Access Please' in the Access thread - under Sports/Soccer on the Homepage - they aren't going to add Anything to the Forum in fairness. However, Banned posters like Thanks!/Yourdeadwright and Many Others that created nothing but hassle on the Soccer Forum before being Banned, would have Open Access again - that to me Would be a Net Negative. Those type of posters would actually piss off more posters than anything else - and there are several more out there, not just the 2 examples I gave. There were so many Reported Posts surrounding posters that Are Currently Banned - I cannot conceive why they would be welcomed back - just to hear their opinions again, so they can be Reported...and Banned ... Again.

2 warnings over 2 years Is conducive to keeping a Better Standard of posting in my view, knowing that a Ban would be in the offing.

Increasing the number of Posters on Boards is the issue I think. It's a generational thing, a Social Media thing - that will not be fixed by opening up Soccer.

Opening up Soccer could well lead to a couple of Mods packing it in at a time when we would probably need more - not alot of folk want to Mod Soccer by the way!

I do understand the frustration of 'we need more posters' but you want posters who would Add to the Forum - those posters can have access by siimply asking. My view is we need more posters to Boards.ie generally which would have a ripple effect on Soccer.

LuckyLloyd

Personally speaking, if some of the current mod team would prefer to pack it in with an open forum that is fine and understandable. But the vibrancy and health of the forum should trump the preference of the mod team, imo.

Trigger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122388351#Comment_122388351

While im more a reader than poster these days due to time constraints and real life, I'm not sure I agree with your logic surrounding banned posters and opening the forum up, surely if they were previously forum banned for life/6 months with review etc, they continue to be banned even if it's opened up. It will obviously have a higher turnover of posts which in turn will need more moderation, but the likes of other forums with bigger numbers than the SF get by just fine. I have up most respect for the moderation team, which I was part of before but I do think this is just a cop out.

Dave0301

I assume that there is no way of posts in the soccer forum to appear on the Boards.ie homepage due to it being a group?

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122388488#Comment_122388488

I don't think so. They would be Banned from Soccer - as a Group -as distinct to being Banned on Modutils. If it were no longer a Group, I think open access would mean exactly that. Don't think there is any List that could simply be copied over either - some functionality that Vanilla doesn't have I believe.

The main difference between Bigger Forums and Soccer is that they would not have the Tribalism that Soccer has - which can create its own issues.

Necro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122388567#Comment_122388567

Unfortunately as it's a group then no.

Trigger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122388568#Comment_122388568

There absolutely is tribalism in the likes of After hours and current affairs even, you just have to read through it to see that people are very hard lined in their ways of thinking and it is what generates most of the discussions, much in the same way that tribalism in football is viewed.

Of course there is going to be trolls etc, but tribalism should not be viewed as a bad thing, the vast vast majority of posters will discuss amicably even if they totally disagree due to their affiliation.

I'm sure these forums have a way of banning posters from posting in each forum, maybe even the mods could discuss the way that happens with moderators of other high post forums

Irish Aris

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122388187#Comment_122388187

When you say "changing to public and back to private won't be an option" : you mean that it is not technically possible?

I don't post a lot to be honest and I kind of enjoy the current civility in threads but I can understand where people wanting the forum open come from.

I think there would be a curve initially where mods would be a bit busier and I expect the 2 teams with the most fans/busier threads would cause most of the additional hassle. But I wouldn't expect it to be very bad. I appreciate though that there is no way to control re-regs, so probably no perfect solution exists.

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122388619#Comment_122388619

Tribalism is great for discussion - one of the reasons why soccer can be seen to work so well but equally it leads to issues, particularly during matches when emotions can get the better of some, that you won't get elsewhere.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122388788#Comment_122388788

No perfect solution - correct. The 'civility' you mention is great in one way, Tribalism that is currently working quite well, but in trying to Increase posts the quality/civility could be lost - or not. As you say, no perfect solution. Match threads might be an area where the Tribalism might actually drive an increase in posts.

Trigger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122388815#Comment_122388815

I don't disagree with timings and issues etc, but that is what the mod team is for.

But is it really working quiet well when the numbers are dwindling and people are leaving due to there being no real drive for discussion apart from the same few daily.

The last 3 feedback threads posters who follow all different football clubs have all said the same thing and have offered the solution to open the forum up to bring some life back into it. If that brings a handful of trolls in the mod team in place should reasonably be able to deal with those.

The forum is dying so what have you got to lose by changing tact and trying something new.. put the big man up top and save the forum

pjohnson

If letting trolls in is to be allowed they'd need to be dealt with harder than currently. As it theres a few wums who appear to be given free reign or just dance "technically" within the rules to return back as troll-ey as ever providing nothing.

LuckyLloyd

@ShamoBuc in my view reintroducing match threads is a separate suggestion to opening the forum. You seem to be positing it as a ‘compromise solution’ of sorts.

Really, we should be doing both. People on boards seeing a match thread on the front page that they happen to be watching would entice people in.

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122389304#Comment_122389304

They were seperate suggestions at the start of the thread, literally the first few posts and I commented on them within the same post - one I believe is a good idea - one I believe isn't. That's just my opinion, nothing more.

artanevilla

I personally don't share the view that opening up the forum would make it more lively for a couple of reasons. The first four points I'm making as a user, the 5th I have my mod hat on.

1. Boards.ie itself is in decline as is the tradition forum type of social media. I don't belive it's a case where there are a bunch of users out there waiting to join Soccer. It's pointed out above that Soccer is in decline, while I personally don't think it's a "decline" as such. To consider that point, the "decline" as it were is matched by the overall decline on Boards for various reasons, including the switch to Vanilla, not that the forum is closed.
2. Standard of posting. The Soccer forum is curated in such a fashion that 99.9% of the discussion is mature and reasoned debate. I don't think you can point to any other forum on Boards as popular as Soccer than can claim this. The standard of posting on the AH Euro 2024 thread is an example of this, there were regular posts on there that fall short of the standards of this forum in what was a "neutral" thread.
3. The forum is essentially not "closed". It's harder than it should be to find but not "closed", there is very little barrier to entry. There are things like minimum posts to join but that is waived for long time users and is an effective way of keeping the forum free of rereg trolls. I think if you really want to be a poster on Soccer, you can meet the requirements quite easily and there is basically one hoop to just through. Simply asking.
4. We are not Reddit, nor should we try to be, just the same as we shouldn't try to be Twitter or Facebook. There's no echo chamber here, you will be challenged fairly on your views, on Reddit posts can be voted down to oblivion. Here all posts are treated equal. If you like Reddit as a format it's also available, you don't have to use one or the other.
5. Moderation will become a lot more difficult and time consuming. We are volunteers. Soccer is quite a pleasant forum to mod for the most post as it is self policing a lot of the time, due to the standards being set by our users, which I believe is as a result of being a "closed" forum. If you were to compare to the workload of the mods of comparably busy forums, they have to give up lot of free time and are subject to quiet a lot of abuse, some quite serious and personal including treats and attempts to dox. I'm not being lazy and trying to say I don't want the forum open as I'd have more modding to do, I'm just pointing out what would happen in the case of opening. It's also not a case of adding more mods, like the decline in users, there's been a huge decline in a) people suitable to mod b) people willing to mod. As an example I'm a mod on three other forums. Two of which I'm the only mod simply because no one else wanted to do it. Pre Vanilla even the smallest forums had a minimum of two active mods.

In short, my two main points would be, the forum is not closed, it's open to everyone who can meet the (quite achieveable) minimum standards. The second point would be: be proud as a user of the forum and of the community we have built here. The standards of posting and debating is far and above most social media and I would say most other forums on Boards too.

The forum needs to be made more visible I agree, but I don't think opening it completely is the answer.

It's a long time since Soccer was made private. Let's not forget why.