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Anyone else feel ashamed of getting the Covid shots?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,494 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I would not see any of that being debatable other than by someone who has suddenly developed amnesia or just chooses to ignore facts.

    You have already being shown the Swedish Health Agency result from their seroprevalance test results that showed the theory of acquired herd immunity via infection was a myth as well as shown the same regarding Brazil and India, and the Swedish economy fared no better discernibly than many countries that used lockdown.

    You have also been shown that your "wishy washy vaccines" left you 4 times less likely to require hospitalization and 11 time less likely to require admission to I.C.U. In fact even Sweden do not appear to agree with you on them being "wishy washy". They were one of the first countries to start administering them and by January 2023 had the 5th. highest number of vaccines administered per capita in Europe. Source: Statista.

    Your vague notion on Omicron being the saviour stand up even less to scrutiny. January 6th 2022 the first cluster of Omicron cases were detected in vaccine shy Hong Kong. Between then and March 21st.2022 there were 1,049,950 cases and 5,906 deaths. During that period, a mortality rate among the highest reported worldwide since the COVID-19 pandemic began. Source : Nature.com. Moridity and Mortality Weekly Report April 15th. 2022. This has also been shown to you before, but again you just choose to ignore verifiable factual data and post vague unsubstantiated make-believe notions of your own.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    My God Dohnjoe thats exactly what happened. Im very pro vax so you are correct there i dont have an anti vax feed. And i have read the article. I understand there is other very learned pro Covid Vax persons who do not like the findings. It is not in their interest to concur with the findings. Especially if they pushed or recommended the new shots at the time which would undermine their status or positions. It really is a losers game to find fault with the mRna shots as so many reputations money and careers are at stake. The vast majority have taken it so will not admit they were wrong even if they now have doubts or misgivings. That young healthy lad who lost his life to the Covid vaccine is a prime example. A life needlessly lost but some will put it down here as collateral damage to save the 'millions'. Meanwhile we have maybe a billion people unvaccinated in the world that are not dying or clogging up A and E's. Why is that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,673 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    This is deluded nonsense. Your post bears no relation to the article or reality.

    The article you linked to directly contradicts the anti vax fake news you are trying to spread:

    The only conclusion I can draw with certainty so far is that basic vaccination with two or three doses significantly reduces the chance of getting long Covid.

     

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    Long vax

    It already has a name: Post-Vaccination Syndrome, also known as long vax.

    In a news article in the journal Science from the summer of 2023, it states that a connection between long Covid-like illness and Covid-19 vaccines is beginning to gain recognition among researchers and doctors. The condition appears to be very rare, and the symptoms include persistent headaches, severe fatigue, abnormal heart rate, and blood pressure.

    “You see one or two patients and you wonder if it's a coincidence,” says Anne Louise Oaklander, a neurologist and researcher at Harvard Medical School. “But by the time you've seen 10, 20... Where there's smoke, there's fire.”

    All these very rare side effects sre mounting up as time progresses.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,673 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Another bad faith misrepresentation, leaving out crucial information:

    "Cases seem very rare—far less common than Long Covid after infection."

    Now we couple that with previous article:

    The only conclusion I can draw with certainty so far is that basic vaccination with two or three doses significantly reduces the chance of getting long Covid.

    So basically everything you have cited demonstrates the importance of getting vaccinated and the benefits of them far outweighing the risks.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    Any comment on the billion or so unvaxxed worldwide that are not dying of anything despite transmission of Covid not being halted by the vaccines. Even in the fully vaxxed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,673 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Any comment to make on your deliberate misrepresentations of the articles you are citing which plainly contradict and discredit the narrative you are pushing?

    Hard to discuss other points in good faith if thats the tactics involved.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,494 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Facts really are an unknown universe to you and you just make up whatever suits your narrative.

    I presume the young lad you are referring to is Roy Butler from Waterford where the pathologist Dr Margaret Bolster said a link between the vaccine and his death could not be established or ruled out, i.e inconclusive.

    A vaccine jab that from all your ranting and raving on mRNA vaccines was not an mRNA vaccine but an adenovirus vector vaccine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    Yes indeed that young healthy fellow. Did not need or want it but died from it. Do you really believe it played no part in his death?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    I have made my comments on an article that is obviously pro Covid Vaccine. I think you are struggling here and would prefer if it had been an obviously anti vax article. There is pro and anti Covid Vaccine points in the article. i acknowledge both. It is very brave of any institute/publication to post any anti/critical information on the Covid Vaccine due to the money/reputations/status implications of same. You have to remember like science through history questioning the norm is treated as heracy. It is a very brave person who sticks their head above the parapet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,673 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The article you cited contradicted the anti vax falsehoods you were trying to pedde about them.

    All I did was cite direct quotes from the articles you linked... quotes from scientific experts who have looked at the scientific evidence.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,494 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    What you I or anybody else believes is irrelevant. The pathologist`s report was inconclusive.

    Nothing to say on that vaccine not being an mRNA vaccine but a adenovirus vector vaccine and the masked has slipped showing you are nothing more than an anti vaccine advocator.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,217 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    It would be amazing if the billions of unvaxxed weren't dying.

    But they are.

    They're dying from old age, cancer, heart attacks, strokes, lack of oxygen to the brain, cerebral haemorrhages, car crashes, suicides, murders, sepsis, influenza, neonatal and maternal deaths, pneumonia, diarrheal diseases, tuberculosis, HIV/AIDS, and malaria.

    Just like the vaccinated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    Its a nice get out clause for the vaccine manufacturers. Its very hard to prove what caused a bleed like that. Only for him being young and healthy would it have been fully investigated at all. I guess there has been lots of deaths post vaccine that are put down to natural causes. Especially in the elderly and infirm that are never investigated. As in this case very difficult to prove either way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    I have bad heart failure and take the vaccine every chance I get, no problem.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And here all the restaurants were forced to close and, alas, huge numbers of them never reopened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,731 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Maybe it did.

    To repeat again medical treatment isn't 100% infallible. Out of 2 million jabs in e.g. Australia two were associated with potential deaths. Death from vaccines can happen but it's extremely rare. The risk of dying from Covid unvaccinated (proportionally adjusted) is more common, it's higher. Since pretty much everyone is going to catch Covid at some stage, it's a no-brainer.

    Pretty simple but in my long experience people who are anti-vaccine do not understand or do not want to understand this. I've seen it explained dozens and dozens of times on this forum alone.

    So I'll use the seatbelt analogy. Deaths as a result of a seatbelt can happen but it's rare. The risk of dying in an accident unbelted is much higher. For anyone who drives, it's a no-brainer

    Note your reaction:

    The vaccines saved millons of lives - You don't care

    A higher proportion of unvaccinated people died as a result of Covid - You don't care

    One person potentially died as a result of the vaccine - You "suddenly" care

    You either have no grasp of risk or your viewpoint is irrational. Or you are going to turn into a pedant where you acknowledge it but you start waffling on about the lowest ages risk category where numbers get tighter (I've seen anti-vaxxers drift in there as a final refuge of pedantry)

    It's incredible this basic stuff has to be explained, but here we are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,673 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    At least in Ireland there were government supports.

    In Sweden there was huge drop in hospitality spending even when places could stay open.

    'Alas' is easy to exclaim when there are only difficult choices.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    You are making an awful fool of yourself with your posts.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm sure those supports are a great comfort to the huge numbers of people who are now lost after having seen their businesses and livelihoods destroyed.

    And there weren't difficult choices only. They straight away decided to prioritise covid over everything else. They clearly didn't consider anything else. It was easy for that nphet to say lockdown every 5 minutes when the decisions had zero effect on them.

    But we're going off topic here, so I'll leave it at that. I answered the OP's question in a previous post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,494 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Still no acknowledgement from you that the vaccine in question was a adenovirus vector vaccine, ( vaccines that have been around since the early 1970s), and not a mRNA vaccine that you and a few others have been basing their anti vaccine hyperbole on.

    Not that it matters as it shows for anybody that may have been in any doubt that your whole spiel is nothing more than anti vaccine rhetoric with nothing to back it up other than innuendo and guesswork. Both of which you are now attempting to do with your guesswork in relation to the conclusions of Dr Margot Bolster, the Assistant State Pathologist, with the innuendo that she was giving the manufacturer an out clause.

    If you are so troubled by deaths of the elderly and infirmed during the Covid pandemic you should take a look at your own Shangri La Sweden.

    Sweden`s National Board of Health and Welfare advised doctors overseeing nursing-homes to keep their distance from residents. This resulted in many residents, (not all of them due to Covid-19 infection), not even being examined by a doctor being put on a pallitive care coctail of morphine and midazolam, both respiratory inhibitors, and denied oxygen by phone by doctors. Effectively a euthanasia death sentence.

    You could also look at Tegnell proposing to re-open nursing homes to visitors and telling the vulnerable it was safe to mingle in general society again in September 2020 while Sweden was experiencing it`s second wave. Thankfully for the elderly and vulnerable the regional authorities having regained control over their health care had enough of his herd immunity nonsense and forced the government to back them and have him and his theories and proposals sidelined.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24 foolhardy


    I'm just so glad that neither I nor my children took the vaccine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,494 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I have seen quite a few anti lockdown posts, but that has got to be the strangest so far, that we should have left the country wide open to the spread of Covid for the sake of restaurants.

    As has been said to you already, in Ireland we provided state support to the effected hospitality sectors. Something Sweden failed to do, where by 2022 25% of jobs in their hospitality sector were lost.

    I do not recall hearing of anyone here dying from hunger since the lifting of lockdown due to them not being able to find a restaurant to eat in, have you ?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's ok then. You don't recall so it didn't happen. And the magic money tree meant that closing down the country for years was absolutely fine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,494 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Are you seriously saying that you believe we should have let COVID-19 run rampant just to keep restaurants open ?

    BTW, I didn`t say, as you very well know, that I don`t recall them being closed during lockdown. I said I don`t recall anyone dying from hunger or thirst when lockdown was lifted due to a shortage of restaurants. Do you ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    Remember the 'Pandemic of the unvaccinated'. When there was a belief that fully vaxxed persons could not get the virus or transmit it.

    COVID-19: stigmatising the unvaccinated is not justified - The Lancet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,673 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    This is from a speech by President Biden, where he uses the phrase 'pandemic of the unvaccinated' - it doesn't appear to tally with that description. Note how Biden emphasises the strain unvaccinated people place on medical facilities:

    While the vaccines provide strong protections for the vaccinated, we read about, we hear about, and we see the stories of hospitalized people, people on their death beds, among the unvaccinated over these past few weeks… This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated… The unvaccinated overcrowd our hospitals, are overrunning the emergency rooms and intensive care units… As the science makes clear, if you’re fully vaccinated, you’re highly protected from severe illness, even if you get COVID-19.  

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/09/09/remarks-by-president-biden-on-fighting-the-covid-19-pandemic-3/

    But, given that you (approvingly?) quoted that letter to The Lancet… do you agree with this piece of it:

    People who are vaccinated have a lower risk of severe disease but are still a relevant part of the pandemic.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    I dont know really on that point. There was/has been a lot of 'facts' given by very learned people throughout the Pandemic. And a lot have been misleading/misguided and downright wrong. Its my opinion that everyone vaccinated or not has a much lower rate of severe illness from the newer variants. This can be seen to this day in the absence of non vaxxed persons in hospitals and dying from Covid 19. That is the most powerful evidence. there has been no 'Pandemic of the unvaxxed'



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    It is interesting that there is a control group of unvaccinated persons. If there was mandatory/forced vaccination the reduction in severe illness/death would be attributed to the vaccine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,673 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It was from an article you cited, seemingly approvingly and yet you now refuse to accept a major statement within it.

    Completely discrediting.

    On the thread abundant evidence has been provided from multiple jurisdictions on the benefits of vaccination seen in ICU admissions.

    There was a pandemic of the unvaccinated - exactly as Biden and other leaders and medical experts outlined, based on the reality on the ground seen by those on ICU and hospital wards.

    We can see the surge in deaths and hospital cases in Hong Kong what happened an unvaccinated population exposed to later variants. Another demonstration of the pandemic of the unvaccinated.

    So your opinion is based on refusal to accept scientific evidence from multiple sources and even from experts you cite seemingly approvingly. Putting 'facts' in quotes and with such tactics it is clear no matter what information is presented or from what source your opinion will not change because it is not based on evidence.

    But it adds up to an utterly unconvincing line of argument and set of claims in your posts.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    You are a Covid Vaccine dedicated Zealot. There is very little point in presenting alternative points to you. You and others love to push the 'criticise the vaccine' = antivaxxer. Still like to drop in here occasionally to see the fervour if if someone replies to the original post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,278 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    If you were unvaccinated you were 8-20x more likely to be hospitalised depending on age group at the height of hospitalisations (post vaccination rollout), I remember running the numbers for a few of the anti-vax loons back in the day.

    "alternative points" are just an "alternative" way of saying lies. You've yet to refute any evidence presented to you on this thread, calling someone else a zealot is funny when presenting such an irrational view at the same time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,494 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    There are a few dedicated anti vaccine zealots here who either cannot understand the data on how effectivene the vaccines were on reducing hospital and I.C.U. admissions as well as deaths for those that availed of them. Either that or they have just chosen to ignore the data and instead are using innuendo, guesswork and misquoting articles and data still attempting to sell their snake oil on vaccines and boosters.

    For those that may guniunely have a problem with the statistical data, on the basis that a picture is worth a thousand words, this might help.

    For the rest, zealots will do what zealots do no matter what the evidence to the contrary



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 469 ✭✭vswr


    how dare you use actual data in this thread…. conjecture and heresay only



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,673 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Presenting alternative viewpoints?

    In several recent posts on this thread, all I have done is cite quotes from articles you linked here.
    Somehow you found these articles, yet do not accept their clear evidence and statements showing the benefits of vaccination - when these are pointed out to you, you don't accept them or feign ignorance \ do not engage with those points.

    Standard anti vax tactics.

    So you're not even open to alternative points in articles you cited.

    So spare us any nonsense about those who demolish and discredits your baseless claims as being a covid zealot.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭seanin4711


    ahh i remember the blacklisting and hysteria around those who decided not to get the vaccine. short memories



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    I wouldn't have a lot of sympathy for them, how dare they risk clogging up our ICUs



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,449 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Ahh, I remember the snowflakery of the poor dumb antivaxxers. What a sad bunch



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭seanin4711




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,494 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I would not have had any great sympathy for them.

    They showed they cared about nobody other than themselves, and when their bull manure theories were proven wrong and they became infected, they were more than happy to disproportionately take up hospital and ICU beds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,694 ✭✭✭ericzeking


    It was known extremely early (early 21) that the jab didn't stop transmission, so getting it had nothing to do with caring or not caring about anyone else.

    Of course it was always unlikely that an injection in the arm would block something that infects rapidly within 2 days via the nose.

    But you guys all know this, after all, it was never claimed that it would stop transmission, was it? Just lessened the symptoms supposedly, that's what we now hear….protected against severe disease they said, protected against something vanishingly rare for 99% of the population?

    The arguments for inject everything moving as many times as possible are so incoherent and yet the smugness is dripping of the posts, talking about 'dumb anti-vaxxers'. Who, exactly, is dumb?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,673 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Can you show us this information from early 21?
    Is this going to be semantic games about 'stop' versus' significantly reduce'?

    Because the information during vaccine rollout showed significant reduction in infection risk to those vaccinated.
    IF you're not infected you can't transmit it on.

    There are also studies showing that vaccinated people were less infectious even if they did pick up covid.

    This was important in the period of vaccine rollout in summer of 2021, as hospitality and travel opened up.
    The number one thing you could do to reduce the risk to yourself and others was get vaccinated.

    So there is abundant evidence discrediting the claim that "it had nothing to do with caring or not caring about anyone else."

    And you're a million miles away from justifying the claims in your post.

    Also, there are anti vax claims on the thread that the vaccines did not reduce risk of severe covid, and that the stats on ICU admissions from Covid should not be believed.
    I don't see you correcting them as you only ever seem to challenge pro-vaccine claims. Do you agree with them also?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,694 ✭✭✭ericzeking


    The initial data regarding 'breakthrough' infections was from Israel. They had the first big roll out right, Jan 21, and then they had a summer surge in 21, despite that.

    You can do studies to prove almost anything and find the answers you want, you've just said there were studies to show reduced transmission, but then we had our biggest peak when practically everyone was jabbed-I know, variants right? The variants that were always conveniently one step ahead of the jabs-the opposite of the norm.

    Did they reduce 'severe' covid for some, possibly, probably for the small cohort susceptible to 'severe covid' but there is simply too much patent nonsense in all of the data, advice and strategies to believe any of it 100%.

    Did they reduce severe covid in 20, 30 and 40 year olds to the point where it was worth taking a brand new type of drug with indication again early on of potential heart/clotting issues? No.

    The incentive was to drive on the fear, not to dampen.

    Any death numbers are affected by the Healthy Vacinee bias.

    ICU numbers could have been biased by positive people being put there for isolation purposes to not transmit.

    Pregnant women who weren't jabbed being put there as a precaution.

    Any hospitalised kid with a broken leg say, would be down as a unvaccinated hospitalisation if they happened to (and it was 50/50 at one point) test positive in hospital, because they simply had no jab available to them.

    People who got infected at the super spreader events that were the vax centres were still classed as unvaxed for 2 weeks after.

    Like there was so much going on, so many variables but people like yourself just see it all as hunky dory.

    Lockdown/Vax/Solved, weren't the authorities fantastic? Nothing to see here. I am, fortunately or unfortunately I don't know, more skeptical than that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,673 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Didn't take long for the pretence to be dropped in favour of the standard anti vax conspiracy theory nonsense ("drive on the fear") we've heard time and time again, refusal to engage with the facts and scientific evidence and cop out answers about: You can do studies to prove almost anything and find the answers you want

    Why would there be more people with broken legs ending up with severe covid unvaccinated versus vaccinated?
    Your claim doesn't make any sense.

    You accept data from Israel, when it suits you, rejects the rest. An entirely self serving stance.
    What exactly did the data from Israel show? That a breakthrough infection was possible.
    Again, that doesn't alter the fact of the statement that the #1 thing you could do to reduce your risk of severe covid, risk of putting strain on medical service and infecting people around you was get vaccinated.

    Real world studies from multiple places showed the reduction in infections.
    If you aren't infected you can't pass it on.

    Over the entire study period, fully vaccinated individuals had an adjusted vaccine effectiveness of 73% (95% CI 72–74) against SARS-CoV-2 infections and 90% (89–92) against COVID-19-related hospital admissions (appendix pp 6–7). Stratified by age group, the vaccine effectiveness against infection of those who were fully vaccinated was 91% (95% CI 88–93) for those aged 12–15 years and 61% (57–65) for those aged 65 years and older (appendix p 6). https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-67362102183-8/fulltext

    Similar findings in Israel: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00471-5/fulltext

    Similar findings from Qatar:

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2203965?query=featured_home

    There's no scientific evidence that could be presented to you that would change your opinion, you have left the realm of science. I present here in case there are people open to scientific evidence.

    Your claims have been completely discredited and all you have in response is long discredited anti vax conspiracy theory dog whistling.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,694 ✭✭✭ericzeking


    'Why would there be more people with broken legs ending up with severe covid unvaccinated versus vaccinated?

    Your claim doesn't make any sense.'

    I said if a kid went to hospital for a broken leg or any other routine procedure for that matter, and they tested positive in hospital as was highly likely given high hospital transmission, they would go down as an unvaxxed hospitalisation because there was no vax available to them. It makes perfect sense to anyone capable of thinking. This would affect hospital numbers.

    The rest of your post is loaded with the same old tropes and copy and pastes. For someone so caring about others, seemingly, your condescending tone isn't of someone who is particularly nice, throughout this thread.

    You mention Real World Data, yes, the real world data is that everyone got Covid, multiple times and the biggest Covid surge was after everyone had been jabbed. That was the real world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,096 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    I got the initial double shot of vaccine as soon as it was available to me because I wanted to travel and, at that time, you could not get on a plane without being fully vaccinated and testing negative for the virus.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,494 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    To each there own. Personally I don`t believe that posting verifiable data is some smug exercise. Ignoring the data and posting vague idea with noting to back them up when they have been repeatedly debunk on the other hand I find moronic.

    The claim was that vaccination would greatly reduce the risk, should you become infected,of requiring hospitalization, I.C.U. care and death. The data from Ireland as late as November showed that to be the case where the unvaccinated were 4 times more likely to require hospitalization and 11 times more likely to require I.C.U. care. The Real World Data I posted shows that in the real world the difference in the risk of death for the unvaccinated compared to those vaccinated. In fact it debunks, along with the November 2021 data, your whole attempt at misrepresenting that it shows that naturally acquired herd immunity was having any disernible reduction on infections, hospitalization, I.C.U. care or deaths for the unvaccinated.

    But then this is not the first time you have come up with this herd immunity claim despite being shown it was bunkem. Sweden, the primary chasers of acquired herd immunity, own seroprevalance test results showed that from an estimated 33% of those infected by the first wave just 7.3% had developed antibodies. Herd immunity would have required 80% at a minimum.

    You were also shown where the Brazilian state of Amazonas, their epicentre of infections and deaths, believed based on the number of those infected in the first wave they had reached herd immunity. They even published a scientific paper for peer review based on their theory. One week after publication their second wave hit and they went back into lockdown. You were also shown where India based on their numbers infected during their first wave believed they had reached the numbers required, until their second wave hit and showed who wrong they were. Yet here you are again making the same old rinse and repeat anti-vaccine pro naturally acquired herd immunity claims.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,694 ✭✭✭ericzeking


    I'm not sure you understand some of the things you are using as gotchas.

    Just because a person doesn't develop antibodies in the blood doesn't mean they aren't immune/resistant to a virus which attacks them. The reason young kids always have snotty noses is because their mucosal immunity is knocking things back before it becomes an issue. Young people would be knocking back this virus before it ever required blood antibodies-anyone for a spot of asymptomatic? This is why a nasal vaccine would have been better.

    I have never used the term 'chasing herd immunity ', herd immunity was always just an inevitable outcome. How we got there was the issue.

    A country going back into lockdown is no proof of anything, lockdowns were a political tool. As has been pointed out, Sweden had the same seroprevalence as Ireland apparently despite very different restrictions, North and South Dakota in the States had exactly the same curves with vastly different strategies. Ergo, lockdowns make no difference.

    How many deaths had we pre vaccine in 2020? Was it 4k largely mobility restricted people caught and died with covid.....imagine how much infection was among the fully mobile population. How many had to be infected to achieve that many deaths? We had massive infection/exposure even when we were locked down.

    Didn't Sweden have some of the best overall death rates for the whole Pandemic period in Europe? I'm sure they did, lockdowns kill too.

    If you keep calling people antivaxxers and morons, everyone will know are a good person.....



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