Would you agree that "Golden age" of Irish rugby is over?

sxt

All empires come to an end

It probably ended with the first la rochelle loss on 22/05/2022

Some of the Best world players of this generation probably not on the same level as their peak seasons . Sexton, Furlong, van de flier, Ryan etc

The confidence and aura of invisibility ended. The deflating loss in the World cup a few months later felt inevitable

Neil3030

Yes.

Died with retirement of Mike Ross.

Next question.

LostArt

No , we are still in the Golden Age

No. We're only getting started.

Podge_irl

No , we are still in the Golden Age

No, the systems are still there and not to be too subtle about it but we are back to back 6N champions and probably favourites for the next one.

We have lost and are losing some key players but it is clear that both the systems are good and the national coach is fantastic.

I have some concerns about provincial level coaching but that is all solvable. The setup is what makes Irish Rugby works, not some golden age of players.

Augme

Yes, The Golden age is over

I think it's definitely looking likely. We've had the joy of having some class players, but there getting on in age and whether what's coming behind them is at the level is very debatable.

This was our team ages in the 6 nations game against England and their current age. Huge question marks on our future backline and what it will be at the next World Cup. L

1 Andrew Porter - 28

2 Dan Sheehan - 25

3 Tadhg Furlong - 31

4 Joe McCarthy - 23

5 Tadhg Beirne - 32

6 Peter O’Mahony (Captain) - 34

7 Josh van der Flier - 31

8 Caelan Doris - 26

Backs

9 Jamison Gibson-Park - 32

10 Jack Crowley - 24

11 James Lowe - 31

12 Bundee Aki - 34

13 Robbie Henshaw - 31

14 Calvin Nash - 26

15 Hugo Keenan - 27

conquestscarer

There's natural peaks and dips that occur. We won the 6 nations this year but, it was a disappointing club campaign for all the clubs. We will eventually go through a bigger dip but I don't think it's this year.

JPCN1

No , we are still in the Golden Age

some very successful under 20’s in the last couple of years… hopefully some of them will shine at international level…

Shehal

No , we are still in the Golden Age

Glad to see we arent getting too carried away it seems.

Exclamation Marc

No , we are still in the Golden Age

Bit of a ridiculous question. In the last 18 months, we've been Six Nations winners twice, U20s Six Nations winners once, Munster have won the URC and Leinster have been in two Champions Cup Finals and agonisingly short of winning.

Shehal

No , we are still in the Golden Age

I always remember this in 2022, funnily enough a very similar sort of season, and after the first test in NZL when Ireland got spanked the we were hearing guff like this…and then over the next 2 weeks we win 2 games in NZL and win the series…then the narrative shifts to "have we peaked a year too early"…basically some just want to whinge and be disappointed so will look for any excuse to do so, so it's pointless even trying to reason with them.

This whole "golden age being over" narrative though is something the British media will be all over as they want nothing more than a world where only England & France are at the top and everyone else is looking up in awe at them. Sadly though that's never going to happen as long as Ireland are around 😂

Buddy Bubs

James Ryan was certainly never as described on the OP. We will still be there or thereabouts but SA will be strong forever now with their move to Europe, NZ will be strong, France will remain strong, England will eventually get their act together. Australia are basket case. How they're hosting 8 or so matches against the lions is beyond me. Argentina I'm unsure about, they peak and trough. Wales and Scotland don't have any depth or underage strength. Fiji if they were given a decent shot would be dangerous.

So, I can't see us dropping out of top 4 or 5 for a long time so we will remain competitive.

On the club side, we are insulated from the full strength of the french clubs because apart from Toulouse and 1 or 2 others, they prioritise top 14. English clubs will possibly regroup and be stronger with less top flight clubs vying for talent.

Clo-Clo

how many golden ages have we had so far in the last 20 years?

The original died with ROG, Drico Etc

sxt

Yes, The Golden age is over

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264350#Comment_122264350

0, before this current team

This current team is the only team and time when ireland could have genuinely won a World cup with its squad of players.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264497#Comment_122264497

We didn't win a WC

We have had a number of golden generations in the last few year, clast 20 anyway…..

Why do we think this is the last one?

bilston

No , we are still in the Golden Age

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264497#Comment_122264497

The noughties team were literally called "the golden generation" and I genuinely believe we had more talented players (well backs anyway) in the noughties than we do now. However we didn't have the depth or the team continuity.

Anyway, I digress. Its been a disappointing season domestically, but Ireland still won the 6Ns title at a canter so no it isn't the end of an era.

That said England will likely be stronger next season and France definitely will be with Dupont and Ntamacak back, but we play both at home. Domestically Leinster need a 10, Munster need some cutting edge in the backs, Ulster need to be properly coached and Connacht should see a lot more of Aki and Hansen next season which should strengthen them, let's see what happens.

RichieRich_89

No , we are still in the Golden Age

The Ireland U20s are stronger than ever before, Ireland are back-to-back 6N champions, they had their least bad RWC of the pro era last year.

There is a trend of the provinces losing knockout games like Ireland lose quarter-finals however (Munster's URC last season aside). That wasn't so pronounced up until five years ago.

vafankillar

there's one trend i've noticed with irish players. they often burst on to the scene, become known as world class, then deflate and spend the next few years a shadow of the short period of peak performance they once had.

ulsteru20s

I think its starting. The talent coming through now is immense.

ersatz

Fundamentals are all good for Ireland. I think we've already seen that Ireland's fortunes are not indexed to the provinces and even of Leinster are in decline, which seems clear, Ireland aren't necessarily destined to follow. We won the 6N playing well for maybe half of it in a year when France were brutal and England took us to the cleaners, but we won. SA will tell us whether the Leinster contingent can compartmentalise as needed, though I didn't like seeing the scrum (ex Beirne) get owned by a 3rd tier staffer pack today.

Happyhouse22

Don’t know if it is over or not..

But the date that you picked for it to end is notably ridiculous..

Surely if anything it would be halftime in the 2023 final? 😜

since May 2022 Ireland have beaten New Zealand in an away tour, won the 2023 grand slam, beaten eventual winners SA Friday at the 2023 World Cup, won the 2024 6 nations, Leinster have qualified for two more champions cup final, Munster have won the URC..

When do you think this golden era started? And what was better about than the above period?

StevenToast

Yes, The Golden age is over

The Golden generation was when Munster nearly won the Heineken Cup a few times, Leinster got to a Celtic League final.....BOD had bleached flowing hair, dated Glenda Gilson, wore hurling gloves and Ireland won the odd triple crown.....

Great times...

Clegg

No , we are still in the Golden Age

The 'golden generation' was given that moniker because it was a group of players that were clearly head and shoulders above anything we'd produced in about 15 years. The 90's were a miserable time for Ireland.

We've been constantly producing great players for about 20 years now. This generation isn't a 'golden one'. It's simply the current one.

I've no doubt we'll see many great players coming through in the next few seasons and those after too.

sxt

Yes, The Golden age is over

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264506#Comment_122264506

We ve had great players but zero depth. Great players like o driscol and O'Connell and the bull had to play 80 minutes every week because the replacements weren't good enough.

Tommybojangles

No , we are still in the Golden Age

Good lord this is a "go out and touch grass" thread

sxt

Yes, The Golden age is over

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265624#Comment_122265624

This is the Golden era because we had 7 or 8 world class players and great strength in depth across nearly every position. Cover for Sexton the exclusion. That is what is needed to win a World cup

Every other generation had only 2 or 3 world class players and was threadbare in cover for every position and had a weak bench because lack of squad depth and the bench was only used only if there was an injury. This has been highlighted in every world cup Ireland has played

This era was different and probably could have won a World cup if they had proper cover for number 10

Billy_the_Kid

No , we are still in the Golden Age

Ireland are going for 3 in a row six nations wins which has never been done before. Certainly in a golden age of Irish rugby at the moment.

phog

Results wise, yesterday was a bad day for Irish rugby but there's no reason why we can't go ahead and win the 6Ns again, we play England & France at home and we're away to Italy on the last day so we can guess what PD we may need and can plan accordingly

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266154#Comment_122266154

a golden age is a team, not a subs bench

The team with Drico etc was called a golden age at the then

sxt

Yes, The Golden age is over

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266265#Comment_122266265

Great players like drico and Sean o brien and o gara and o connell were ahead of their time and the ignition for the current golden time , without them , none of the great coaches at Leinster and Munster and their successes and then Joe smidt successes and the professionalism of the irfu system in that era. They paved the way

This all culminating in this golden era now

Podge_irl

No , we are still in the Golden Age

They very fact we've gone from "Golden generation" to "golden era" tells you something.

The original Golden Generation of POC/BOD/ROG, it turns out, wasn't some unique phenomenon at all. They were just the harbingers of what was to come. We have had several better teams since then in all honesty and I think culminating in the team that went to the last world cup being our best one yet.

We lost our greatest ever player last year but the same was true back in 2014 and we muddled on through and improved.

randomname2005

I think this wave is over. Leinster aren't reaching the highs they should with the talent they have, Munster losing some talent, Connacht being poor this year (granted MH injured for most of it) but Ulster resurgent. I think it will take a season of rebuilding for all four provinces and then we will start to see the wave rise again.

I hope the provinces and national coaches have a strategy for replacing Lowe, Aki, Furlong and others reaching the twilight of their careers.

Edit: just looked back at the age profile list near the start of the thread and I think there needs to be some serious national team preparation for the coming years.

FrannoFan

No , we are still in the Golden Age

The golden age according to thornley was bod, Darcy, poc etc and yet we built back better.

Biggest threat to rugby would probably be outside political forces messing with the private schools system.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272676#Comment_122272676

No It wouldn't. The sport would evolve and in many ways be far far better if not so dominated at top level by a small number of fee paying schools past pupils

ELM327

Yes, The Golden age is over

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266154#Comment_122266154

It was a different game then. Players playing the full 80 especially up to their early 30s and later if a front row, was the norm. Nowadays rugby is almost a literal game of two halves, where the replacements come on half the team comes off. Lack of depth in the 90's was almost a non issue, in the 00's it started to creep in, in the 10's it became an issue and now it's a game changer on its own merit, talk of tactical 7:2 benches etc.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272676#Comment_122272676

No idea why a thread about golden age has anything to do with private school, do private schools get mentioned on every thread on boards now ? :-)

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272982#Comment_122272982

Only when it's agenda driven

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272565#Comment_122272565

Leinster got to the top of Europe 3 seasons in a row and in terms of consistency since Leo took over have to be the most consistent side in Europe, they might not have the trophies but they are nearly always in the semi/finals. Sarries/La Rochelle and even Toulouse over that period haven't been as consistent.

We just had a hugely successful period of U20 rugby, I remember the U20 games when Ireland would be hammered by France/England because we just couldn't compete with them, now we are winning 6 nations regular and getting to World Cup finals.

Munster/Connacht/Ulster seem to have got youth development in shape with Munster for instance having a great group of young players coming and some already in the team. Connacht have a number in the U20 squad which looks like real gems

Ireland will never be able to be a France or England, we don't have the amount of pro clubs. Leinster can never be a Toulouse and just buy the best young players from other provinces in Ireland like they did when they bought DuPont off Castres.

One thing we are missing in Irish rugby is raw speed, without Hansen this year it was a very slow backline. Even when we get speed like Bala we couldn't get him into the international team because he had had issues in other areas.

sydthebeat

we wont reach our "golden generation" until we win back to back RWCs.

everyone before that are pretenders

Ben Bailey

No , we are still in the Golden Age

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122273540#Comment_122273540

Nah, It'll have to be (at least) 3 in a row RWCs. Then we'll talk about the 'Platinum generation' 😊

randomname2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122273005#Comment_122273005

Agree, Leinster have been consistently at the top end, but I don't see that continuing unfortunately. It will be a while before we have another top level out half and I think we need that to get over the line.

We have some good players on the way up, but reaching the heights that Jvdf, jgp, ringrose etc are at and have reached, will be difficult. We need the stars to align to have players injury free and on top form. As the players get older it will be harder to compete with a resurgent England, and France.

Hopefully I am wrong and a full season with a full coaching ticket will bring both Leinster and Ulster on a chunk next season, and the transition of coaches at national level won't impact too much, but IMHO we will have a season or two of rebuilding before reaching a peak, hopefully for the world cup

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275734#Comment_122275734

"top level out half" a phrase fired out lots of times and then people can't actually answer what it is

Ross Byrne has got them to two European final

H Byrne has shown he has great potential but next year is a huge year for him

Predergast behind him looks good

In terms of another Sexton, no I doubt we will have another on of him anytime soon

Podge_irl

No , we are still in the Golden Age

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275759#Comment_122275759

I don't think Prendergast is behind Harry Byrne anymore…

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275773#Comment_122275773

Didn't say he was or wasn't, was just listing the players

Sorry *behind him was age wise

El Vino

No , we are still in the Golden Age

It's as good as it's ever been, we look back fondly at the Drico era as it was so much better than what came before it. Our top class players like POC, Drico and SOB were close to the best in the world in their position. I think we have more strength and depth now but hardly any best in the world players. Maybe Furlong from a couple of years ago and Dan Sheehan.

randomname2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275759#Comment_122275759

Absolutely. Won't be another Irish out half of the level of sexton for a while

For me, top level are players that any club, and most countries would want. if you look at the best international teams and clubs, how many would have taken sexton in a heartbeat, even up to a year or two before retirement ? How many would take RB? RB is solid, mostly dependable, but isn't in the top tier of out halves.

Without doubt RB would be first choice at a lot of clubs in Europe. But most clubs aren't at the level of successive finals and play offs. I think having an out half that is in the discussion for being in the top two or three in Europe is a huge step towards trophies. Not essential, but in the Irish system, without the ability to buy players to fill gaps like others can, and important piece of the puzzle.

Hopefully HB and Prendergast will reach the heights we want them to, and soon.

Podge_irl

No , we are still in the Golden Age

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275810#Comment_122275810

There may well never be someone of the level of Sexton ever again. It would be a silly bar.

RB is not and never will be a "top level fly half" but he is also clearly not in the Irish picture anymore. We have had literally one year so far of a promising fly half in Crowley and some middling choices behind him and now we are already turning the page to another very promising young flyhalf behind Crowley. We are doing fine.

randomname2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275825#Comment_122275825

A silly bar but a good target.

Crowley is doing well, and long may that continue. He has done some clutch things, (spit, semi final drop goal, spit!!) and hopefully will continue to build control, nerves of steel, and game management. Hopefully himself and Prendergast will drive each other to great things.

RB has been dropped and brought back in before.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275810#Comment_122275810

The way ROG talked about Ross im sure if he was available he would take him

Ross Is looked down on in Ireland like many many other 10s that have come and gone

randomname2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275865#Comment_122275865

Perhaps it is a timing issue. Whoever came in to replace sexton was always likely going to be looked down on.

theVersatile

Jesus, looks like Bernard has been reading boards.

https://twitter.com/bernardjackman/status/1804770601170563196?t=W6HCIpQCP42jVnPNS3Ayjw&s=19

I wonder if we started a fake transfer rumour would he pick it up...

Former Former Former

The thrust of that article is more that the Ireland players will be wrecked and we should have rested some of them.

Interestingly, he says we’ve failed to find a backup to Cian Healy in 15 seasons of trying, which must come as a surprise to Jack McGrath, Dave Kilcoyne and Andrew Porter.