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The Government spreading misinformation on immigration

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 Hoof Hearted2
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    You mean to say there is no certainty about uncertain scenarios?

    What a bastard O' Gorman is, he should get a better crystal ball!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,364 Boggles
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    An other one.

    We need a 'I'm Terrified of Foreign People' sub forum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 foxsake
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    Roderic lied to the public - the ditch article pre referendum showed this and now this.

    the fact he is still a minister never mind a TD is a damning indictment of our political class.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,341 emo72
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    He should have resigned. It was a barefaced lie. Pure gaslighting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,123 Backstreet Moyes
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    Lies and misinformation are fine unless you are far right or centre and speak common sense.

    Their lies are okay because they are morally superior good people so they don't have to hold themselves to the same standards.

    They can spread lies and misinformation but preach about the danger of it.

    I mean in what other country would this man be still in office.

    We are too quiet.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,874 Sunny Disposition
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    It does strike me that you are correct, figures in Government were very vocal about misinformation about immigration throughout last winter and this Spring. And that'd be fine if they were acting with integrity themselves.

    Now we have a report in the country's top newspaper that a Government minister received top drawer legal advice on the impact of the referendum on immigration and then sought to mislead the people about the impact of the changes being proposed.

    The rise of the far right is not inevitable, but it is if the centre parties tolerate this kind of behaviour. FF and FG should insist on his departure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,803 prunudo
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    What do you expect though, we are now being lead by a Toaiseach whos actions as minister brought down the last Dail. They don't know how to hold account of themselves. Say what you like about politics in the UK but at least they resign quickly over there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 RandomName2
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    I don't think the government's handling of asylum in the last two years can be described as anything other than disastrous.

    No, not migrant workers. No, not Ukrainian refugees. Specifically asylum applications. I shouldn't have to specify that I am talking about asylum applications when I am talking about asylum applications but for some reason when anyone mentions asylum applications the government lies by saying 'we need foreign nurses' or something else entirely unrelated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,487 Vote4Squirrels
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    Yeah takes preternatural abilities to see that inviting half the sodding globe to be given their own door accommodation in four months was a bad idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,803 Clo-Clo
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    Why do you think asylum applications can't take up jobs in Ireland if they are successful?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 batman_oh
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    Of course they can, but should we also ignore what happened in Sweden where huge numbers still haven't after years and all the problems that resulted from flooding areas with large numbers of asylum seekers. Also should we ignore that the government themselves went far right recently and admitted that the majority of the ones currently arriving in large numbers every week are not even genuine.

    Should we ignore that The Netherlands found that it cost the state something like 18 billion over ten years as the majority didn't find work. Or that 75% of Somalians on average across Europe never bother to gain any employment (we are getting lots from there at the moment every week). Genuine cases should be helped, but anybody that claims that all of the current arrivals are completely genuine is basically lying, why should we accommodate everybody chancing their arm at taxpayers expense?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,803 Clo-Clo
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    You see now you are jumping all over Europe to try back up a claim that was wrong in the first place, we have seen what has gone wrong in other countries and should look at them. Burning down potential buildings for these people and running around with little groups of racists abusing people is not working either.

    "why should we accommodate everybody chancing their arm at taxpayers expense?" we have plenty of irish who are doing exactly this for many years, should we do something abotu them as well?

    "we are gettng lots from there at the moment every week"? anything to back this up? how many?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,874 Sunny Disposition
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    The fact that the debate on a thread about a Government minister lying veers into the merits of immigration policy perhaps shows why Roderic did what he did.

    There may be a belief in certain circles that lying to the public is acceptable because you are a worthy, enlightened person. In reality if you lie you are just as untrustworthy as those who spread fake stores about violent immigrants. If O'Gorman lied about the legal implications about changing the Constitution, how can he be taken at face value on anything?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,861 Jinglejangle69
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    The fact Roderic is still in a job after 20 children going missing from statecare under his watch tells you all you need to know.


    There is zero accountability anymore in this country and it’s quickly going down the gutter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,089 hotmail.com
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    Talking about removing the women in the home section for the last 30 years and Roderic messed the whole thing up.

    How is he still a minister.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 batman_oh
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    Because Irish people are on the dole long term we should let everybody come from all over the world and do that too? Amazing argument that, limitless magic money for all.

    Jumping all over Europe might be a good idea no, Sweden in particular is the perfect example of what happens when you don't manage this properly and just let everybody in over years and put huge numbers in areas with no idea how to sustain them. But no that's not relevant in any way.

    We have seen what's wrong in other countries and we are copying what they did at the moment, not seeing how that's learning anything or doing things differently? What claim was wrong in the first place by the way? Asylum seekers in general are an overall cost to the economy rather than a benefit in basically every study ever done on the subject.

    Also:

    https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/294011/31ec549e-367c-43ee-bc7b-51296a565f24.pdf#page=null

    21 from Somalia that week, about the same most weeks. And yes, they are mostly unemployed all across Europe



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,754 MrMusician18
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    Strictly speaking O'Gorman didn't lie. What he said was that the AG advised him that there would be no impact in immigration law. The problem is though that is merely an opinion, albeit an educated one.

    His opinion may indeed have been correct but what the officials are pointing out is that such an opinion would at a minimum need to be validated by the courts as the referendum wording left other interpretations possible, if not likely. The officials pointed out that they would need to defend their interpretation in court and it would be costly, and there was a risk that even after that they might not win.

    The problem really is that the AGs opinion is often reported as a final independent determination but the AG is a political appointment. There have been a number of times where the govt have reported that a measure would be legally impossible on foot of the AGs advice (such as rent freezes) when ultimately the political pressure gets too great and they find a way of doing it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 foxsake
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    the ditch proved - and it wasnt denied - that the AG did advise him differently

    he did lie.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,943 Headshot
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    I couldnt agree enough with you Jinglejangle69.

    How come within government and public service in general there is no accountability. It's sickening the incompetence we're seeing but nothing is been done



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,803 Clo-Clo
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    It wasn't an argument, it was a point.

    How are we copying what they did in Europe?

    20 last week, in a population of 5m.

    Seriously people, is this the "great replacement" we have all the fruit loops going on about

    The government should lock down the process, if a person has a valid reason they should be accepted, if not they should be rejected. We shoudl also stop the amount of useless waffle been posted across the web byt people who haven't a f**king clue what they are talking about



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  • A political hit piece the day before an election. Not entirely unexpected.

    Best ignored.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 Augme
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    Speaking of misinformation, I do feel leaving out this piece on the article is quite an interesting approach. People in glass houses etc etc.

    “The advice referred to was provided significantly in advance of the final wording of the referendum text being agreed late last year.”

    Mr O’Gorman’s spokesman said: “The Minister’s remarks reflect advice from the Attorney General.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 foxsake
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    he was asked on the AG advice and his reply was not what the AG advised.

    he was asked in the dail if there was any immigration impact and replied "no". thats a pretty certain answer..

    he mislead so he lied .

    he needs to go

    Post edited by foxsake on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,733 Nermal
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    How about we make an 'I'm terrified of the truth' one for you instead?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,002 ToweringPerformance
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    There has been more sightings of bigfoot than O'Gorman these last few weeks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,262 Spon Farmer
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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,826 nullzero
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    Because anything other than full support of unregulated immigration is based in racism and or xenophobia.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,262 Spon Farmer
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    I believe the situation is “ I’m terrified people will think we don’t like foreigners “.
    This country can’t handle the amount of people that the government are taking in regardless of right or left politics.
    It is just stupidity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,364 Boggles
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    We don't have unregulated immigration.

    That misconception and the obsessive self fear mongering probably is based on racism and xenophobia though.

    I imagine peoples social media algorithms having a complete field day with them contributes too.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,380 timmyntc
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    Asylum seekers arriving with no passports on planes and across the NI border is pretty unregulated migration.

    What could be more unregulated than illegally crossing the border and destroying your documents and then abusing the asylum system?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,947 Beechwoodspark
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    I geneuinky couldn’t believe what I was reading in the Irish times article - so basically the civil service were jumping up and down with all sorts of extremely serious concerns over the referendum …


    but the government politicians were out there denying any such problems and saying “smile and vote yes” - have I got that right ?!?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,841 TomTomTim
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    Boards is a dead duck in general in regards to wider influence. No matter what those types say or do or try on here, nothing will change. Their tactics won't slow anything down, not anymore at least. So leave them in their frustration, as it's all they have left.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov








  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,826 nullzero
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    So IPA's flooding over the border from Northern Ireland, large numbers of whom have no documentation, to come here to live in tents is what you describe as regulated immigration?

    Lets just speculate that anyone who isn't thrilled about it is most likely a racist.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 batman_oh
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    The alternative reality that the morally righteous live in must be an amazing place!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,874 Sunny Disposition
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    The thread is really about a Government minister lying about the implications of changing the Constitution. The fact the implications were related to immigration is secondary.

    But the important point is how disgracefully the Government have behaved.

    They timed the referendums for international women's day rather than a few weeks later when they would have coincided with elections. That purely a political stunt and to hell with the cost and disruption.

    Then a few months later we find out a Government minister was misleading the public on the implications of the constitutional change.

    The public were misled, the Constitution almost changed, lies told to voters, all so the Government parties could virtue signal.

    It's a good thing it blew up in their faces.





  • Didn't they do the same with the referendum removing blasphemy law to make way for the hate speech law



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 Augme
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    No surprise to see the usual suspects crying about people exercising their freedom of speech. It's amazing certain sections on the political spectrum always talk about freedom of speech yet are always the first ones who want to remove when that speech is in opposition to their beliefs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,431 tom23
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    To me it just shows that fundamentalist cult of the green party have the gubbermint by the balls and as they are staring into very uncertain political oblivion there is not a hope in hell they will force mr ngo poster boy out of his job.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,235 Seth Brundle
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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,431 tom23
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    ah good jaysus indeed. Minister lies or is more than economical with that truth and nothing happens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,341 emo72
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    Are you not part of a "certain section" for your "political spectrum"?

    He did lie. That's it. Are you here to argue otherwise?

    I'm part of certain section of a political spectrum because I assume government ministers shouldn't blatantly lie?

    I expect better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89,020 JP Liz V1
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    Harris first job once in as Taoiseach should haven been to get rid of Roderic and Helen but he didn't so imho incompetence in all in this government

    The government and even the opposition SF thought both referendums would pass successfully but luckily the people stood up and voted no

    Anyone questioning the referendum in regard to immigration was shot down as the usual far right racist fascist xenophobic bigot etc.,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,561 Varik
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    He needed Green party votes, only way O'Gorman was going was willingly.

    People say the green party is on a minority and can't control things or push anything but they can collapse the government as easily as either FF or FG can.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,431 tom23
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    Exactly my point I made earlier. All Roddy has to do is keep a low profile and get it the end of his gig where his next one will be in an NGO of some kind. Green party delighted that Helen is getting a massive pile of flak… let’s call it a multi governmental approach.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 RandomName2
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    We do have 30,000 asylum seekers this year though. So it might not be unregulated, but it is collapsing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,372 monseiur
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    Agree 100% Tomorrow we'll have an opportunity to let the government know in no uncertain terms what we think of their antics and complete failure as rulers not helped by being held to ransom by the deluded greens.

    The fallout from the referendum some weeks ago cost Leo his job as taoiseach & FG leader, tomorrows result could very well hasten a general election. New smaller parties & independents will hold sway in councils & to a lesser extent EU



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 CarProblem
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    This is hilarious. Some people absolutely foaming at the mouth on the Gript thread but doing the "nothing to see here" routine in relation to government misinformation

    Not at all surprised however



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,874 Sunny Disposition
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    Even Green supporters should be very disturbed.

    The Constitution should not be changed on the basis of lies. Arguing that he was right to mislead people because it would be a positive change to the Constitution misses the point entirely.

    Unless he can show some contrary evidence he should be compelled to resign.

    Besides anything else this is opening the door for dangerous right wing headbangers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,286 AndrewJRenko
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