Donald Trump the Megathread part II - mod warnings in OP

Beasty

A continuation from here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058151198/what-does-the-future-hold-for-donald-trump-threadbans-in-op

As always keep it civil. 2024 Election talk belongs here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058346991/biden-v-trump-and-one-or-two-others-the-us-presidential-election-2024-read-op-before-posting

Flaneur OBrien

Just going to kickstart this one with this:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/24/trump-apprentice-film-cease-and-desist

The last line is pretty funny, tbf.

Speaking to the press recently, Abbasi appeared unconcerned by the threat of legal action. “Donald’s team should watch the movie before they start suing us,” he said. “Everyone’s always talking about him suing a lot of people. They don’t talk about his success rate, though.”

randomuser02125

@Giovanni Colossal Wart from the other thread

So a jury of 9 coming back in under 3 hours doesn't convince you? Then you are starting from your conclusion and working backwards. To believe the courts in NYC are that corrupt makes you part of the cult. We got a pile of vague nonsense about anything but Tiny raping E Jean Carroll. Maybe a hint of 'oh he probably did it but it was so long ago '.

looksee

A motion that Trump’s lawyers filed in his federal classified documents case, also unsealed Tuesday, asserted that the August 2022 search was unconstitutional and “illegal,” misquoting the operations order as saying that “law enforcement officers of the Department of Justice may use deadly force when necessary.” Associated Press articleThe

The operations order states 'may only use deadly force when necessary'.

There is no limit to the stupidity of his lawyers, they must have been aware they were mis-quoting.

Jack Smith as asked Judge Cannon to issue a gag order against Trump. We wait (and will probably continue to wait) with bated breath.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122181490#Comment_122181490

It really is incredibly stupid to misquote when it's so very easy to copy and paste a quote precisely. It's almost like they had to do it on purpose.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122181037#Comment_122181037

I saw that too.

Are we getting to the point of MAGA supports saying:

«Yes, he’s guilty of a crime…*but* what is a ‘Crime’ really? Trump was just being Law-Adjacent….because he loves America…”

…or some such nonsense.

Quite disappointing to see what a diet of NewsMax or G-beebies can do to a person’s moral compass, where they’ll actually defend a proven rapist.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122181490#Comment_122181490

If Cannon doesn't issue the order, it may be Smith appeals and gets her removed from the case.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122182940#Comment_122182940

No doubt she's incommunicado with Trumps team to see what's the best way forward.

It'll be some craic if he does get re-elected and nominates her to the supreme court at the next opportunity…

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122182067#Comment_122182067

You kind of have to wonder about the calibre of Trumps legal team. Bearing in mind this is a guy who is notoriously bad at paying his bills,

If you take the full set of legal talent available as a whole, I would imagine some would not like to represent a convicted rapist. Some may not want to represent someone who is probably guilty - or who will probably be found guilty at least. Considering how he treated Rudi Giuliani, you would wonder how many razor sharp legal minds are happy to join his legal team.

everlast75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183121#Comment_122183121

Apparently he's already repeatedly insulted Susan Nechles, one of his lawyers in the Manhattan case, calling her a loser

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183217#Comment_122183217

We'll soon see who is the loser.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183407#Comment_122183407

Is Trump likely to actually see jail, though — if convicted?

It would be extraordinary for a former US president (and possibly future president) to be jailed in the midst or after an election campaign.

everlast75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183678#Comment_122183678

Extraordinary behaviour demands extraordinary treatment

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183678#Comment_122183678

Fingers crossed.

Personally, I think he'll get off due to a hung jury, and then he'll proclaim how he was innocent all along, and that it wasted his time when he should have been campaigning.

And your ilk will fall in line, and say it should never have been brought to court in the first case, and everyone on your side of the aisle will carry on, showing utter contempt of the justice system.

While I and my ilk will treat him the same way OJ Simpson was treated. Refuse to accept a verdict of the hung jury, as it is not a sign of being found innocent, it is a sign that the jury could not agree, but we'll all (including you and your ilk) know he is as guilty as can be.

In the meantime, you might turn around and announce that you have found a definition of fascism that you are able to share publicly, retract and correct the incorrect quote on your sig, or you'll just delete this account and create another one with another odious person as your avatar, maybe Graham Linehan next time?

Water John

Trump's conviction would be an important step, in reminding the people how repugnant he is.

MICKEYG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183678#Comment_122183678

It would be extraordinary if he was convicted and did not go to jail.

Justice must be blind so no matter who he is, was or might be, if he is guilty he must pay the price like everyone else.

An election should have nothing to do with it.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183678#Comment_122183678

Doesn't matter. If he is found guilty he will be the very definition of a loser.

Plus there is the question, as most states bar convicted felons for running for public office, if he will then be allowed run in the presidential election, so loser multiplied by two.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183726#Comment_122183726

They have him bang to rights in the hush money case. His lawyers offered no real defence because there wasn’t any. The only way the decision gets split is if one or more of the jurors was predisposed towards Trump from the beginning. A hung jury is possible, but it’s unlikely given the weight of evidence.

PropJoe10

So, Donald Trump is human scum. New thread, but some things never change.

I.R.Y.E.D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183745#Comment_122183745

In fairness you don't need a conviction or another civil trial verdict for anyone in full possession of their faculties to know or be reminded of that, he makes it plainly obvious on a near daily basis.

everlast75

The misdemeanors appear to be a slam dunk.

The "step up" offence requires intent, and that'll be trickier to prove.

Some jurors may only be swayed by the cheques that are signed by Trump, so apparently counts 1-10 involve cheques that he hasn't signed, so don't have a heart attack if you hear "not guilty" the first ten times

Rawr

It’s «extraordinary» for a former US Predisdent to face jail?

Do you know what’s more extraordinary? That someone so nakedly self-centered and corrupt to the core was allowed to even get onto the docket in the first place. For him to even assume the office despite losing the popular vote and then use his time in office to play-act the role of President despite barely being able to run anything with his name attached to it and then proceed to lead quite possibly the worst administration the White House as ever seen.

Add to that the extraordinary situation that a man who attempted to actually overthrow the US Government, essentially a traitor, is somehow still a free man.
That he may face jail for commiting a crime is not the most extraordinary thing about this. What’s most extraordinary are the people coming out to defend him knowing too well what he actually is…and not caring at all, so long as they can feel like they’ve won argument.

Maxface

It should be entirely normal that if you do crimes, you pay for them, like the rest of us. Holding office and/or trying to hold that office again doesn't preclude you from being accountable.

francois

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183678#Comment_122183678

Probably not, he'll use bone spurs as an excuse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184288#Comment_122184288

You’re right, but Trump should have already done some jail time for contempt of court in the hush money case. Anyone else would have , but as the judge said - he doesn’t want to have to send an ex-president to jail. We then have the Trump appointed judge in the documents case desperately trying to walk the tightrope of slow walking the case to ensure it won’t be heard before the election or getting kicked off the case for her obvious corruption and incompetence. Not the mention the two totally compromised maga-Supreme Court Justices refusing to recuse themselves from the presidential immunity decision, which is also an attempt to stop the D.C. case from going ahead before the election. It’s a mess.

ghostfacekilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183121#Comment_122183121

Wolff who wrote Fire and Fury on Trump's term in the WH covered that they were rebutted by any legal firm of note in the country due to his toxicity, and the effect it would have on their brand. The same author claims that Donnie was having an affair with Nikki Haley during his term, which she denied.

Overheal

Donald mercilessly booed at Libertarian National Convention 🫖

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/9Dodc2Bo7f

everlast75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184433#Comment_122184433

Not in MAGA world!

https://twitter.com/BasedMikeLee/status/1794554303841006056

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183678#Comment_122183678

He most likely won't be, regardless those who support him will basically be happy to support a noted felon, fraudster and rapist. The party of supposed law and order seem to not support it at all. And you're most likely gonna say that it's all ignorable and perfectly acceptable to vote for him.

HakunaJuanMata

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185260#Comment_122185260

What does it say about the incumbent administration's performance the last 4 years if a Felon,Fraudster and rapist is destroying them on 90% of swing states and favourite to win the election.

Was there a pivotal moment that the Biden-Harrris administration lost the American electorate?

Looking back on 538 data it suggests job performance satisfaction took a large dip at the time of Afghanistan withdrawal and never returned to prior levels.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186746#Comment_122186746

Whatever about the incumbent, what does it say about the RNC to make him the nominee?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186746#Comment_122186746

It's a very good question.

What you say seems true, that it demonstrates the abject failure of the incumbent administration. The electorate largely feel that the administration is not taking them in the right direction, long-term.

But even if Trump is all of those things, it's actually irrelevant to how he governs — that's to say, his long-term policy agenda. For instance, if the country feel that migration needs to be controlled and Trump is the man to deliver on that — however extreme some consider his policy platform — then they will vote for that policy.

Trump is simply the figurehead for the policy they want, and his own personal failings are irrelevant if the country gets what they want.

In 25-years looking back, the US can say that migration was finally managed the way the population want it managed (as well as his other policies). They won't start talking about these trials.

Winston Churchill is alleged to have been a horrible racist, but he was nonetheless the right person to lead the way in WWII. Again, the policy trumps — for want of a better word — any personal moral failings of the country's leader. Imagine the opposite; that a weak leader who was morally perfect led WWII and lost it?

The same applies to Trump and his policy agenda. People are willing to judge Trump on his political policies in a political election, and not let moral questions get in the way of that much more important goal.

looksee

The fact that a good proportion - up to 50% apparently, though I doubt it will prove to be that - of the American people support Trump is a reflection of the horrible state of the Republican voters of America. It is caused by poor education, lack of critical thinking, worship of the flag, superficial religion, utter selfishness and bone deep stupidity.

Trump is sufficiently willing to lie about absolutely anything and everything to convince his followers about what they want to hear. It is beyond comprehension to most normal people who would not understand the attraction of a cult, but something about his warped and corrupt personality appeals to his followers. In enabling the cult of Trump, the country is in danger of reaping what it has sown.

Stanley 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122180852#Comment_122180852

E. Jean Carroll has stated she would like to use his money to get back at him.

Financing this movie to be distributed and keeping off Trump's lawyers should bring her some satisfaction.

Donald will be flaking with rage.

everlast75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186797#Comment_122186797

You have been fact checked so many, many times and yet you still regurgitate the same abject lies.

Why is that?

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186758#Comment_122186758

Something that's puzzled me in all of this is the RNC's (and members thereof) apparent absolute belief in, and devotion to, Trump's immortality. Almost by definition, a Republican-style party (like the Tories in GB) is filled with selfish, backstabbing narcissists who will say or do anything to rise to power, and yet the whole rancid lot of them have rowed in behind the One True Leader because … well, because "Biden" it seems, and nothing else. None of them seem to be positioning themselves to be the Obvious Choice when - not if - Trump keels over and doesn't rise again on the the third day.

For one brief moment, I thought Nikki Haley might have stood up to Trump and provided the non-Trumpian Republicans with a valid alternative candidate. She could have put herself in a really good position, especially with women voters - like a few months ago when he was being snarky about her "very nice dress". If only she'd fired back "are you man enough to wear a dress, Donald?" Instead, here we are with her saying she'll vote for Trump, and him telling us that he's not afraid to wear trousers …

While I would enjoy seeing Trump convicted and jailed for one (or more) of his crimes, I think the more dramatic upset to the Presidential race would be if he upped and died some time between now and September, leaving the GOP without any clear successor.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186797#Comment_122186797

But how does that square with Trumps abject failure to deliver on any of the things he promised the last time out?

He has never "delivered" in his entire life. He delivers a great Sales pitch and then fails miserably to deliver on it.

As long as he lines his own pockets he's happy.

He did nothing to"fix" immigration in his 4 years in office, he didn't fix healthcare, he didn't fix Infrastructure, he didn't bring back manufacturing jobs. He didn't do a single thing he said he would do.

All he did was give himself and his cronies a hefty tax cut.

In your example, Churchill was indeed a horrible prick but he was what was needed to make the hard decisions during a world war. He was focused and determined and did exactly what he said he would do.

Trump is not very bright but he is very lazy and he will do absolutely nothing to help anyone other than himself.

In power he would make nothing better but would allow everything to become worse.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187141#Comment_122187141

What matters is what US voters believe.

US voters have consistently polled that they feel economically better off under the previous administration as opposed to the incumbent.

That's what they will act upon, not on trial after trial after trial.

Rjd2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187327#Comment_122187327

Pretty much this unfortunately.

We may not like it, but it does seem like people have warmed to Trumps time in office while Biden in contrast is going nowhere approval wise.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/15/politics/trump-presidency-memories-biden-analysis/index.html

During Donald Trump’s four years in the White House, he was famously the only president whose job approval rating never reached 50% in Gallup Organization polls since the firm began systematically tracking that measure in the 1940s.

But now more positive retrospective assessments of Trump’s record in office are setting off warning flares for Democrats — especially as President Joe Biden’s own approval ratings remain stuck at historically low levels. In a CNN poll from April, 55% of Americans said they considered Trump’s presidency a success — a big jump from the 41% who viewed his presidency so positively when he left office in January 2021, according to a CNN survey from the time.

If Biden is to win a second term, “the fact that Trump is getting this level of credit cannot stand,” said Democratic pollster Jay Campbell, who conducts surveys on the economy with a Republican partner for CNBC.

It’s not unusual for approval ratings of presidents to rise out of office. The difference is that none of Trump’s defeated predecessors sought to return to the White House four years later. The public’s shifting ratings of those former presidents was of interest mostly to historians; this year, these reassessments will help decide control of the White House.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186797#Comment_122186797

Putting a rape, an insurrection and lots of fraud to the side is a reflection on the individuals who are okay with that. The insurrection alone would put most countries off letting him back in office and it's very much relevant to the role. Then things like rape, that's more going in the direction of saying "I know Harvey Weinstein engaged in sexual violence but he's still good president material, look at his success with Miramax".

And the reality is Trump achieved very little in office. And this is what works against him, most people haven't forgotten how he handled the pandemic. They know how he made the role about himself. So I find it incredibly unlikely that he's gone gain voters that he didn't have in 2016.

ronjo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186797#Comment_122186797

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187327#Comment_122187327

How on earth do you square

"In 25-years looking back, the US can say that migration was finally managed the way the population want it managed (as well as his other policies)"

To

"What matters is what US voters believe"

As I am sure you agree he governed for 4 years and didnt achieve almost anything so what makes you think he will deliver this time, much less give you the ability to state it as fact that it will happen.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188171#Comment_122188171

The reality is, an awful lot of people are finding day to day life completely unaffordable and are having to make significant cutbacks. Rightly or wrongly, people tend to blame the current president for stuff like that.

Gaslighting voters by insisting the economy is actually great and they're delusional isn't helping

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188171#Comment_122188171

And the reality is Trump achieved very little in office

That is subject to bias and personal interpretation. Many Americans believe his presidency was a success.

As the above poster quoted:

In a CNN poll from April, 55% of Americans said they considered Trump’s presidency a success.

So it's definitely likely that he will "gain voters that he didn't have in 2016".

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188191#Comment_122188191

You ignored my question here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122180643#Comment_122180643

Care to address it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188243#Comment_122188243

Polls are more often than not a reliable indicator.

When 55% of Americans say that they believe Trump's presidency was a success, we're not talking a small number here — even if the poll were slightly inaccurate. If you were to believe the tone of this thread, you'd believe that 10% would conclude his presidency was a success.

So whether the actual number is 49% or 58%; we can at the very least conclude that a large percentage, around or more than half, believe his presidency was a success.

It's also consistent with more than 90% of the latest polls that put Trump ahead:

Is there a possibility these polls are wrong?

For sure, there always is. But given Trump was supposed to lose in 2016 based on polls when he was in fact way ahead of Clinton; the fact that Trump is ahead at this stage should worry Democrats.

everlast75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188180#Comment_122188180

Moreover, he specifically, tanked an immigration bill which had bi-partisan support.

Therefore, he made the issue *worse*.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188256#Comment_122188256

You took one sample, the 2016 election, and based your hypothesis off that. What about the 2018 mid terms (where trump lost the house), the 2020 election (where Trump lost again), the 2022 midterms (where the Republicans underperformed when predicted to wipe the house), and the primaries for the Republican nomination

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188291#Comment_122188291

All current data suggests the polling is consistent with one another i.e. people claiming that Trump's presidency was a success versus his consistent poll ratings today.

As there is no inconsistency, I see no reason to cast doubt on the polls. With all polling there is the possibility that it may be inaccurate, but I'm willing to hedge my bets and assume that the polls are reasonably accurate indicators.

Conversely, if the polls showed a low approval rate with consistently low presidential polling, then I don't believe we would see anywhere near the same level of scepticism. If anything, the polls would be taken as golden and used to batter Trump.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188303#Comment_122188303

Im not talking about approval rating. I'm talking about predicted results versus actual results, which again you've ignored

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188303#Comment_122188303

You agree with the polls, because they align with your beliefs.

As has been stated. Polls were wrong when it came to Brexit, then they were wrong in '16, '18, '20 '22. (I still have a chuckle at the Red Wave)

Why would you think they're going to be right this time? It's a lot of faith to put in a system that has shown itself to be very flawed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188515#Comment_122188515

You disagree with the polls, because they misalign with your beliefs.

And yes, the polls could be wrong.

It's entirely possible that support for Trump is even higher than those polls already suggest.