Cleaning up laneways around inner city Dublin?

Following the closure of "Harbour Court" (between Marlborough St and Lower Abbey St) earlier this year, it raises the issue of long standing neglect when it comes to these urban anomalies.

Laneways are obviously an inevitability in tightly knit urban centres.

As I see it, they can go one of two ways (unfortunately, there does not seem to be any stagnant intermediary).

1 - they descend into depraved and miserable seclusions that host all manner of festering wrongdoing, or

2 - when they're invested in correctly, they can become attractive, alluring, even funky recesses away from the busy central thoroughfares.

And it very much tends to be a case of, "build it and they will come".

In other words when investment is so poor that they degenerate into readymade outdoor crack-dens, guess what type they attract and the nature of activity they encourage?

Conversely, a little care and attention?

Dare I say it, they can be transformed into cool, attractive, charming hide-aways from the bustling crowds.

In addition to Harbour Court, the next such place that needs to be addressed is the relatively adjacent "North Lotts" off Abbey St. Another cess-pit that's been left to rot.

With such places, it seems like a case of "use it or lose it".

i.e. invest and innovate, or follow the Harbour Court protocol and restrict public access.

HeidiHeidi

I'm not exactly inner city, but not far from it. My house backs onto a laneway that runs between our road and the main road. It's only a through way for pedestrians and bikes. All of the houses on both roads have rear access to the lane.

It's a more or less permanent sea of weeds growing into bushes, broken glass, dumped bags, dog ****, and at one end (nearest the open end of the lane) piles of vodka bottles and cheap cider cans. I've never actually seen the drinking parties in action, but they must be epic!

I take my bike in and out using the lane, and I'm forever dodging the dog poo and glass, and have had a few punctures.

I have pleaded with the city council to do a sweep of it more often, and not let the weeds get to the stage where I have to slalom through them in the pitch dark - and in fairness it's a bit better than it used to be, but still an utter pain to use at night.

I've also pleaded with them to put in even minimal lighting, as a lot of bikes use the back lane (none of us have side entrances) - to no avail whatsoever.

Whatever local election candidates turn up at my door are going to get interrogated at length about it!

Back on topic, I agree that just closing down laneways is not and should not be a long-term solution, but that's what I can see happening - it's the line of least resistance, and least expenditure, and removes the problem from the council's books.

Not dissimilar in a spot near me.

What is it with laneways and alley ways, they're like infest magnets for trashiness (as in actual trash, and also behaviour) as well as other manner of degeneracy.

What it comes down to is they are in fact kind of analogous to garbage cans; either they're given frequent inspections and sufficient cleanliness protocols, or they'll begin to harbour all sorts of bacteria and foul smelling nastiness.

First thing that could be done is re-paving them.

That 17th century British era cobblestone topwork is not conducive to attracting day shoppers or the coffee shop type.

Quitelife

Lot of Civic Pride & Volunteerism has disspeared over the years be that people living in the area cleaning the area or even Council workers pride in having their patch looking well , very few care anymore its a Me Me Me mentality in modern Ireland.

ooter

Pretty sure harbour court hasn't been closed, DCC councillors voted to close it but don't think it has happened yet.

Tombo2001

Funny enough, I was up in Belfast recently and was struck by how what are essentially laneways have been used for cafes restaurants and thouroughfares, especially in Cathedral Quarter - good point OP.

Also - we are predominantly talking North Inner City here - its a thing of wonder how long this area has been stagnating for. The Carlton cinema closed over 30 years ago….its bananas. Its such a no-brainer to upgrade that part of the city, for so many reasons. And yet all we get is plans and reports.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116404#Comment_122116404

For sure, way past time they got on top of this issue.

Laneways can be so damn charming and alluring when done right, but of course done wrong their like vile miscreant reservoirs, which is precisely what we see in places like Harbour Court and North Lotts.

Clean them out, re-pave them, encourage diverse businesses that support the arts and other manner of funky, positive, non-depraved or illicit industry.

Melbourne turned loads of laneways into destinations, by allowing art displays, bars and cafes to open in them. Great buzz around their city in the small bars and cafes.

It's surely not that difficult to implement here. Start off with one lane way, and grow it if successful.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117509#Comment_122117509

Leinster Market would be the ideal place to trial something like you've suggested, however it must be more than 20 years closed now and it's all but forgotten about

https://dublininquirer.com/2023/11/15/could-a-hidden-red-brick-alleyway-off-dolier-street-be-reopened-and-put-to-use/

hoodie6029

I’d love to see them repurposed but honestly is there enough business for them all if they turned to hospitality etc.?

A lot of these lanes have the back doors of businesses who won’t be able to give the space over or unwilling if it will create competition for them.

Sorry for being a downer on this…

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122121328#Comment_122121328

If not, them close them to public access. Just gate them off.

I think DCC were correct in their contention to cordon off Harbour Court (though apparently that hasn't been done).

They should do it.

And North Lotts.

And any other crack den backstreet around D1.

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122121747#Comment_122121747

If they’re not safe for Joe Public to walk down because of anti-social behaviour then they should be gated. If it’s not a throughway for the public and the property owners with doors and gates onto the street agree, I don’t see the problem. It’s not like DCC is creating ‘gated communities’ or anything. They’re just making dingy lanes safer.
I know the trouble makers will find somewhere else, it’s a bit like whack a mole but they have to start somewhere.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111554#Comment_122111554

Why don't the people who live in the houses that back onto the laneway clean it up themselves?

Hardly that big a job.

Agent Coulson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122124986#Comment_122124986

To be fair that is what part of the household charge is supposed to be used for by local authorities and if those houses are paying that charge and the local authorities aren't doing it then the issue needs to be raised with local councilors and they need to be pressured on it.

What will the Household Charge finance?

Revenues from the Household Charge will support the provision of local services. Internationally, local services are administered by local authorities and financed by local service charges. In Ireland, local authorities are responsible for, among other services, public parks; libraries; open spaces and leisure amenities; planning and development; fire and emergency services; maintenance and cleaning of streets and street lighting. These facilities benefit everyone.

Kermit.de.frog

Slightly OT and speaking of dirty streets but someone got the bright idea to put this on Talbot Street of all places and well ...

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1789380624735694877

miamee

It's on North Earl Street. Shocking the amount of Dublin people who don't know the difference.

Strumms

end of the day people pay taxes and it’s not too lofty an expectation that basic services are provided via that taxation.

We are supposed to clean up public thoroughfares ?

What’s next ? Replace bulbs in traffic lights ? Paint road markings when they fade ?

council stopped cutting grass verges here, ‘biodiversity’ was the line we were fed….

The result of them not being cut was they became a rubbish trap. Bottles and assorted rubbish getting caught in it… Live very close to two schools and that was the upshot with all the kids passing by...

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132729#Comment_122132729

There's a difference between public thoroughfares, and lanes which really should only be used to provide back or side access to the small number of people using the private properties the access is to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132875#Comment_122132875

Agreed.

Privately gate them and give business owners and employees key card access.

Setup on Amiens St that was a prime location for drunken drug use, an electronic gate has solved that problem.

If there are any actual "businesses" in operation currently in such locations and their exclusive access point requires routing through said back streets of depravity, one could be fairly certain the nature of their business is almost certainly illicit (and should be either relocated, or condemned).

Gates erected at Dublin laneway to stop drug dealing and littering – The Irish Times

Finally got this done at harbour court.

Now…………. North Lotts.

Get it done DCC.

Place is festering infection on the face of North Dublin.

And while they're at it, just park an armed response unit outside McDonalds in Temple Bar so the Billy-Badass mob will be deterred to ply their creeped out fake attitudes elsewhere.

Kermit.de.frog

Not against it but I wonder how much did the gates cost?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122124999#Comment_122124999

if it's a laneway used to access the rear of public houses, it may not be in the remit of the council to clean them?

Deebles McBeebles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655707#Comment_122655707

Only 2 million, bargain.

howiya

Just passed by on the luas and the gates are open.

Edited I see from article they're not expected to be operational till next week

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122655046#Comment_122655046

If it moves the dealing to Grafton Street we might finally get something done about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0-E_t6pBvc

North Lotts is being used as a video thumb-nail for drug use in Dublin city center.

So an electronic gate is good enough for Harbour court but not good enough for North Lotts?

Is DCC engaging in some junkie-den discrimination?

magicbastarder

not inner city, but it's about the topic of closing lanes (in dublin 11)

https://dublininquirer.com/2024/10/02/councillors-vote-to-close-laneway-off-glasnevin-avenue-due-to-anti-social-behaviour/

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122682593#Comment_122682593

I don't agree with that, there must be hundreds of these footpaths that provide public walking routes to amenities in estates across the country. The authorities should be addressing the anti-social behaviour rather than closing facilities to the public

magicbastarder

in those situations, the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many. the council don't have the resources to police the laneways, and the gardai won't be of any use - so it's a difficult sell for those who live beside them, to ask to keep them open.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122682593#Comment_122682593

Excellent article that.

Really touches on most/all of the most important considerations, not least of all:

CCTV is great in theory, says Callaghan, the Social Democrats councillor, but in reality, it is costly to maintain and rarely watched. If it is managed by the council, the Gardaí have to go through an onerous bureaucratic process to access it

Try and get local Garda to act on a complaint of anti-social behaviour, respond to a call even…… let alone go through someone ELSE's CCTV footage?

Facial recognition may be justified in locations like this.

………..

"Reddy", the people before profit councillor………. sounds like a real salt-of-the-earth dude;

He's voting to maintain its presence.

“These laneways were built at a different time when we didn’t have the same challenges we have today.”

No doubt. "Modernization" should be the focal point of Irelands "national strategy".

As for "police presence"?

………

Is that a joke?

Dublin City Council has recently moved to close routes at Swan Alley, Harbour Court, Hardwicke Street, Ormond Place, and St Catherine’s Lane. 

North Lotts not even mentioned?

lol - video makers are using shots of the area to exemplify degenerate drug dens of inequity, and it's not even being considered for closure? (or electronic gating, more precisely)

……….

Shurely shome mishtake??

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122682808#Comment_122682808

Removing access to the physical surroundings that promote ASB is one of the best ways to "deal with it".

magicbastarder

a laneway does not 'promote' ASB, and while it might facilitate it, tackling a symptom rather than a cause wouldn't be what i'd consider one of the best ways of dealing with ASB.

i grew up in a housing estate in dublin 15. they closed pedestrian laneways between the cul de sacs because of reported antisocial behaviour. i certainly never heard of any such antisocial behaviour there, was probably genuine innocent hi-jinks by kids at worst.

not saying it's the same as what might be happening in the above situation now, just that my experience of it was a kneejerk reaction to what was probably not a problem.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122683627#Comment_122683627

İsn't North Lotts a different kettle of fish to the other mentioned thoroughfares? To my mind it's a lot larger, a lot more trafficked, and with a lot more businesses and residents that use it for access.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122684231#Comment_122684231

Any legit business on it as a thoroughfare is merely a back entrance to one on either Abbey St or Liffey St.

It's not much bigger than other laneways targeted for closure (or restricted access).

But the unavoidable reality is it is a den for crack smoking, drug use and inequity.

At the very least, a little urban re-development?

I mean look at this filth.

What did they expect it was going to attract?

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122684078#Comment_122684078

Any public space that provides a low oversight area enables / promotes ASB.

Laneways have no place in good urban design.