Car options for €20,000 budget

Badger242

Hi All,

I'm looking for recommendations for a used EV options for my brother. His commute is 175km round trip on mostly national roads. He would need to have about another 80-100 km range in the battery when he gets home for errands, picking up kids, etc. He works 4 day on, 4 day off, on shift work so won't be able to avail of the cheapest night rates. Even so, with an estimated 40,000 km mileage per year, I did a back of the envelope calculation and between fuel and tax he would save almost €3,000 per year with home charging. The decision to go EV versus another diesel will be totally based on the financial benefits.

Key attributes he is looking for.

1. Price
2. Range
3. Reliability (some warranty would be nice, although with his mileage he will max out even the Kia and Hyundai warranties in a few years)

He has a budget of about €20,000. My shortlist is as follows;

-Kona 64kw

-Eniro 64kw

Other possibilities

-ID.3 58kw (Would it have the range?)

-ID.3 82kw (May come into budget over coming months)

-Leaf 62kw (Not sure about buying a CHAdeMO charger?)

Any one have any thought or other suggestions?

Miscreant

If you're adding the Kona and Niro to the list, you may as well add in the Kia Soul EV too. Bigger than the Kona and has the same 64kWh battery and drivetrain. Criminally overlooked IMHO as they are a great car.

Buddy Bubs

id3 should have the range even in 58kwh but on cold days it may be tight to get 275kms sometimes. He could adjust his driving style to suit. He will be fine most of the time but might get caught out. I would wait for the higher range one to come into budget to be honest.

There is a poster here looking at selling one actually.

Badger242

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122107945#Comment_122107945

Good shout. I had a look on DoneDeal and there are a few in budget. Possibly overlooked due to their unique/divisive style.

fafy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058350758/car-options-for-20-000-budget

The ID3 tour, should be around 20k soon enough, a 2021 Tour, went up today for 23.5k, and owner has been trying to sell it off and on, for more than a year, you should get one for less than that price, as dealers have been offering sub 20k on 2021 ID3 Tour Trade ins.

There will only be general car warranties left on Kia’s (7 years)and Hyundai’s(5 years), 2021 Id3 warranties all cease in 2024 with no warranty extension possible.

Battery warranty is 8 years, but its only the battery in most if not all cases.

Badger242

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122107965#Comment_122107965

Thanks for that. The idea of getting caught short on range, even if rarely, could be a deal breaker for him.

User1998

2019 Tesla Model 3 is another option which you might just get within budget.

I double checked your figures and yes there is potential to save around €3,000 in fuel if using standard day rate of electricity but if he wants 100km remaining after a 175k km commute then I can almost guarantee he will be publicly charging quite a bit especially in Winter which will be costly and inconvenient and will eat into fuel savings.

Not to be a scaremongering but lets not forget the potential repair costs of an out of warranty EV too which could wipe out any fuel savings.

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108048#Comment_122108048

the ID.3 Tour would be ideal. Heaps of range and spec and it’s very comfortable to drive distances with lumbar support and massage seats etc. I’m selling one but gfmv is a good way over 20k so he’d need to beat that at least. Might be better off with the lower mileage one posted today if he’s doing that sort of mileage but it’s out of warranty now.

prawnsambo

Just on the Leaf, you mentioned not wanting to have a Chademo charger. But you can just get an untethered one and then it's just a change of cable if he changes the car later.

A few comments above raised my eyebrows. If a public charge is needed, it would be very small, maybe a fiver for 10kWh on a 22-50kW charger at most whenever needed. But the outline suggests he'll be coming home with maybe 30-35kWh used (17-20kWh/100km) which would be a 5 hour charge. So car topped back up before he's finished his sleep and the 100km comes before he heads to work and another option to recharge for an hour or two before he goes.

I may be off on the work/errands schedule, but it seems to me that there are opportunities to top up the car during the day before he heads off to work again. So the range requirement may not actually be 275km at all.

As for the "repair bills" these are always possible, but data suggests that this is much less on EVs than on ICE cars. And if he goes for a Kia or Hyundai, the majority in the price range will still be well in warranty. Also I know from a friend who has one that the Kona will get you 460 in the summer if you keep it under 95kph. This would be no bother on a commute on national roads only. If you go above that speed, he says 425. Still well above the requirement.

Edit: 2021 Kia E-Soul for 21.5k very low mileage

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/kia-soul-e-soul-k3-my2021-5dr-auto/34277637

A 2020 Kona with low mileage for under 22k. Lots of choice around 20k.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/hyundai-kona-2020/36776059

pah

Biggest challenge for him will be change of driving style to get the best out of the battery.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122109730#Comment_122109730

I don't think he'll need to. Or should. I haven't changed mine.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108203#Comment_122108203

I’d assume he doesn’t want the hassle of having a CHADEMO and looking for a fast charger. You’d want to be mad to get a car with CHADEMO , less and less fast chargers available. The resale will be awful , as would long journeys , plenty of week priced CCS cars out there

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122110139#Comment_122110139

He specifically referenced buying a Chademo charger. I pointed out that this isn't actually a problem.

And I'm curious about the "less and less fast chargers available". They are still being installed. Latest being in the Carrickmines hub. Where are Chademo fast chargers being removed?

ted1

CHADEMO is DC.

You don’t get a CAHDEMO charger at home , you get a Type 1 charger. So we’ll assume that he’s referring to public charging.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122110706#Comment_122110706

don’t see any CHADEMO in carrickmines

slave1

I think you are spot on with the Kona, you should be able to pick up a 2019 64 Kona for mid teens which will give you real world range of around 380kms now so plenty of life left and no range anxiety

Badger242

Thanks everyone for the input and suggestions.

In terms of public charging, he would need it very rarely and not on a usual commute day. They have a second diesel car for longer family trips. On a typical day he would charge at home, travel 175 km to and from work, and arrive home with charge in the battery for the daily tasks. Prawnsambo made a good point that he could start charging when he gets home, so in reality the required range might be less that 275 km (important for winter range drops).

I'll let him decide whether the CHAdeMO fast charging would be an issue for him. We have a 2015 24 kW Leaf and have nothing but good things to say about it. However, it is only a city runaround so we never need fast charging.

I had considered an older Model 3, but current prices are still a good bit above budget.

The Kona and Eniro probably top contenders based on warranty/price/range. The ID.3 is also a strong contender in the bigger battery format. The Leaf is a great car and some are well priced and the Model 3 as a possibility.

The above list should give him some direction on what to keep an eye out for.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111226#Comment_122111226

my neighbour is selling this one.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111203#Comment_122111203

Every app is showing an equal number of Chademo and CCS connectors on that hub. Plugshare and eCars specifically checked. This is just the top of the list on Plugshare, you scroll down for more. All the same.

terrarev

Something else to consider is that he could just charge the car when he gets home. Unless he's straight out the door again after getting home even an hour charge would probably give enough to cover any extra travel easily on something like a 58kw/h ID3.

ratracer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111438#Comment_122111438

is that advertised somewhere? I’m not sure I’m gone on the colour, but it ticks every other box! 🤔

This has been a very informative thread. I’m almost convinced to get a second hand EV as our second car, to try it out. Have solar, so might as well try to reduce one diesel cost!

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112421#Comment_122112421

I’m not sure where he advertises them

His details are here: www.joel.ie

MojoMaker

When was a Kona 48K new?

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122113189#Comment_122113189

2021: https://www.carzone.ie/new-cars/hyundai/Kona/BEV-65KWH-EV-ELEGANCE/838920520231001

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108203#Comment_122108203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111197#Comment_122111197

Both these posts have incorrect info.

The Leaf of any year is CHAdeMO. Yes, its DC fast charging and yes, there are still plenty around, but I would avoid a Leaf for frequent long distance journeys especially when the 62kWh version represents poor value for money.

The Leaf from 2018 or newer comes with type 2 charging port. Not type 1. No need to get untethered home charger.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122114142#Comment_122114142

so regardless, CHAEDMO relates to fast charging and not A domestic charger ..

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122114208#Comment_122114208

Yes, but only the older Leafs had the type 1 AC ports. The face-lift model came with type 2 ports.

RodVelvet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108203#Comment_122108203

I don't like the blocky look of the e-Soul but do you reckon there would be much wiggle room on the price which might make the looks more palatable? 😂

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122114518#Comment_122114518

I'd expect so. There are a few around and as time goes on, the prices will drop anyway. Certainly could get a grand off if not more if you're prepared to walk away.

And yeah, it has a face only a mother could love. 😂

Edit: Weird that if you search just for cars in that price range, the one I link doesn't turn up, but the link I posted still works.

Edit 2: If you don't use the make/model search and just enter 'soul' in the search bar, you get a good few more including the one I linked.

Here's a 2020 model with low mileage for under 20k

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/kia-soul-e-soul-k3-lr-5dr-auto/36929834

And a 2021 model with 50k on it for less than 19k. Seems suspiciously low, but maybe it's the mileage.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/kia-e-soul-k3-auto-full-electric-long-range-450km/36740903

ratracer

So obviously with an ICE car, if I’m looking for a used car I’d be primarily focussed on mileage and service history.
What are the key factors to look for when considering a used BEV? What mileage is too high?

After looking at a few different models over the weekend, we’ve decided that the ID.3 is probably our favourite out there, so will look for a good deal as a cash buy over the next month or two. It’ll be a second car for the house, still keeping my Superb also.

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122131936#Comment_122131936

for the ID.3 check that the software is on latest version 3.2. You can also check if the car is subject to any recalls. I can’t think of anything else at present. Maybe ask on ID.3 thread. Get as high a spec as you can as well. Car basically drove me to Dublin this morning with travel assist.

ColemanY2K

Kona. 202 UK import. Only 16,000 kilometres on the clock.

Was the battery issue resolved by this stage? Seems excellent value at €19k.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/hyundai-kona-premium-ev-64-kwh/36819733

slave1

The battery issue was solved with a brand new battery so if it has not had the replacement then it can go in a queue for one, as it's a recall there is no timing out issue

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137370#Comment_122137370

Depends on when in 2020 it was produced. Recall was from 2018 to early 2020.

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/120381/hyundai-kona-safety-recall-ev-battery-replacement

Red Silurian

Honestly if he isn't doing much public DC charging I'd consider a leaf, great discounts available on them at the moment and they are still installing chademo. In fact Lidl are still installing AC43 so I'd be very surprised if chademo went away in the next 10 years.

If all came to all, you could probably get a leaf and the CCS adapter for less than most CCS cars

beggars_bush

Interesting thread.

Currently looking to replace my 10 year old diesel car and have started considering a used electric.

Going to get a few 2/3 day test drives from local garages to see if they are to my liking as I've never driven one.

We've no solar at home but this might finally make me invest in that technology. We've an old meter at home that will run backwards for solar generation

Do a lot of cycling so something that will accommodate a bike across the boot and folded down back seats.

We have a second diesel estate

Daily commute of between 80km-100km.

Any suggestions welcome

fits

yeah just try a few and see what you like. The estate can always carry the bike.

pah

I wouldn't be investing in solar for the purpose of EV charging if that's your angle?

beggars_bush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162521#Comment_122162521

Depends on your work hours 🤪

It was something planned down the line anyway

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162029#Comment_122162029

be conscious that you don’t have a home charger , do your experience won’t be a true reflection as you may need to charge on a public charger and miss a real benefit

beggars_bush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162779#Comment_122162779

My neighbour is letting me charge it overnight if I need to.

celtic_oz

Hyundai KONA 2019 EV for €17,500

what about looking up north. Some good bargains up there as alot of people nervous of bringing down an electric.

something like this, 2yrs old, 200mile range, no vrt, €18.5k, no customs / vat.

get it serviced up north where it’s probably cheaper anyway and you should have no problems with warranty

https://www.usedcarsni.com/2022-Vauxhall-Mokka-100kW-Ultimate-50kWh-5dr-Auto-342985952?make=31&model=103782543&keywords=&fuel_type=13&trans_type=0&age_from=0&age_to=0&price_from=0&price_to=0&user_type=0&mileage_to=0&body_style=0&location%5B%5D=0&location%5B%5D=0&homepage_search_attr=1&tab_id=0&search_type=1

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162521#Comment_122162521

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162668#Comment_122162668

I agree with pah.

Its better financially to export and get paid for that than to use the excess to charge your car. Your work hours wont matter. Let it off to the grid and get paid for it.

With your backwards running meter it makes even less sense to charge your car with the excess as you will effectively be getting full day rate for your excess. Hang onto that meter as long as you can but they will probably take it off you when you register a solar install.

beggars_bush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164268#Comment_122164268

There's over €2000 worth of work to be done for a new external meter box to be fitted so I don't know who will pay for that

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165948#Comment_122165948

It wont be ESB anyway. That leaves you!

All they will do is simply swap out the meter. They dont need to do any other works.

beggars_bush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166581#Comment_122166581

Well then the meter won't be changed as it's inside the house

Anyway, getting my hands on an ev tomorrow for a few days. Will post updates

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164036#Comment_122164036

Good shout

Tell them you're bringing it south, don't have a trade-in and won't need a dealer warranty and they'll knock another few £ off it

Mr Q

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162029#Comment_122162029

Are you sure your meter will spin backwards? Some of the old spinning ones will, some won't.

beggars_bush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183359#Comment_122183359

Definitely

Anyway, test drive going well with the car. Enjoying the driving experience and I'm thrifty enough with the pedal so it's battery is lasting well. Two 90km journeys planned tomorrow so we'll see how that goes

bootser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164036#Comment_122164036

Would this be libel for VRT/Import Tax/VAT??