Old roll back meter

michaelheno

I have the panels in 5 weeks. Working brilliantly I still have the old roll back meter which has now can backwards from the last meter reading given to supplier will this cause any issues for next bill/reading!

phil_space

@michaelheno I installed panels in 2021 and still have the old 'spinny back' meter. Where you may run into problems is during summer when, depending on your usage, a July meter reading may have a lower figure than say your May/June reading. I have an EV and a heat pump so it's not really a factor for me. Up to you how you want to handle it - to avoid scaring the horses you could supply a customer reading during the summer, showing a figure higher than the last reading if required. This will then naturally adjust as Autumn/Winter roll in. However, I wouldn't go chasing after a fit payment!

the_amazing_raisin

I think some of the newer spinny meters have a mechanism to stop them ticking backwards, so you might be in for a surprise I'm afraid

con747

I have my old meter over 2 years since my install and just submit a reading a few units above my last reading every 2 months. My meter is inside the house and if I see the ESBN meter reader I either don't answer the door or have covid that day. You won't receive FIT unless you get a smart meter but in my case it works out better to have the spinning backwards meter. I postpone the fitting of a smart meter every 6 months when the contractor gets in touch to fit it.

NEVER submit a lower reading than the last one or the sh1t hits the fan with your supplier looking for proof of an actual reading by photograph with an up to date newspaper as some found out. They can't make you accept a smart meter but can try say it's faulty and needs replacing for safety reasons though as it is their property.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122050733#Comment_122050733

You should demand reimbursement for the cost of the newspaper 😂

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122051293#Comment_122051293

I never submit a lower reading, others have though and it was a nightmare with their suppliers after doing so. I add between 3-10 units on every 2 month reading.

michaelheno

good idea only my meter is outside so it’s easy access for the meter reader

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122051499#Comment_122051499

Also easy for either ESBN or one of their contractors to just turn up and change it. If it's a contractor who is in touch about changing it ring them and get it postponed if that's what you want to do. I get 6 months before I get contacted again and just postpone it again. ESBN will send you a letter stating that you are to get a smart meter first, then either ESBN or a contractor will get in touch to arrange the new meter installation. If it's a contractor they should be able to postpone it for 6 months. I'm not sure how ESBN handle it. Maybe put a lock on the box outside? I'm not sure if you are allowed though.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122051525#Comment_122051525

Yeah I got the smart meter letter saying it would be coming soon and the next day (which was Saturday) the guy turned up at 7am to swap the meter without telling us

Good thing I'd turned the alarm off already. I asked him why he didn't ring the doorbell and he said he thought we'd still be asleep and didn't want to disturb us

I pointed out that the house alarm going off would have disturbed us a lot more

To be fair, I can understand the technicians trying to be stealthy about it, I imagine they get some abuse from the tinfoil hat brigade saying the smart meters are summoning demons or something

ECO_Mental

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122050733#Comment_122050733

How do you get away with the Networks meter reader thats suppose to come and read it at least twice a year… I presume the meter is inside of your house in the hallway

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052336#Comment_122052336

I had no read for well over 3 years on an internal meter without actually trying.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122051525#Comment_122051525

is there not a website portal when you can register to ensure you do not get a Smart Meter, then no worries

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052518#Comment_122052518

Once you have microgeneration of any kind you lose that option.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052336#Comment_122052336

It's inside the house.

slave1

No you don't, this has been covered many times and in minister questions, everyone has the absolute right to refuse a smart meter, if you can't do online, then phone or email

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052683#Comment_122052683

That only applies to people with bog standard normal connections and no microgeneration. You sign that away as soon as you get the cert.

I suspect if you make enough fuss you might get a modern mechanical meter, no reverse running and no FIT; but it won't be because of any right to refuse.

slave1

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2016-11-29/707/?highlight%5B0%5D=richard&highlight%5B1%5D=boyd&highlight%5B2%5D=barrett&highlight%5B3%5D=smart&highlight%5B4%5D=meter

Ring the ESB Smart Meter Support Lineon 01 6985005 or 1800 928 123. Take the name of the person you speak to.

Follow up with an email to esbnetworks@esb.ie and inform them that you do not want a Smart Meter.

You will need to give your MPRN (meter number found on bill or meter itself).

Ask for written confirmation that your request has been logged, that you will not be part of the Smart Metering Programme and will not have a Smart Meter installed at your home.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052699#Comment_122052699

Again, this only applies to people without microgeneration.

Also, claiming EM sensitivity when you have microgeneration would be absolutely laughable.

slave1

Show us that in legislation

slave1

Just to be clear, I have micro generation and a SM but I know folk with micro generation that refused SM (their choice) and no issues whatsoever from ESBN

DC999

Bear in mind….CRU won't permit you to get FIT once there are smart meters available in your area to replace 24hr meters, CRU deem it that the home owner has decided not to changeover so you won't get FIT. They confirmed that to me in email well over 6 months ago. And CRU inform ESB who then inform your energy provider. I know that as I contacted my energy provider when I didn’t get FIT on a 24hr meter. They said contact ESB, ESB said contact CRU.

I’d suggest OP stay with the meter for now until you get used to solar and how much you use power and when. Then in maybe 6+ months, look to move to a smart meter if a cheap night rate helps you. I’m saving a large amount by moving from one of those meters to a smart meter using a cheap night rate (when I charge the EV and run kitchen appliances. If you had a battery, that’s the time to charge it cheaply too).

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122050348#Comment_122050348

He said it's running backwards, so no surprise in that case.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052705#Comment_122052705

As @slave1 asked, can you show legislation on that?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052705#Comment_122052705

This is false information.

You can refuse a smart meter if you have microgen. Sure, you won't get any FIT payment, but there's nothing to stop you refusing.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053726#Comment_122053726

If you are returning to the grid, they have the right to replace the meter - you aren't going to be able to keep a reversible meter indefinitely.

The replacement will be a smart meter, as that's what is currently supplied.

Kick up a fuss and maybe they can find a recent era mechanical meter that can't reverse for you, but you'd be ensuring you don't see a penny for feed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053711#Comment_122053711

There isn't legislation for any of this; its CRU decisions alone. The response in the Dáil to Rich Boy Barrett's EM hysteria wasn't legislation either.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053737#Comment_122053737

You aren't going to be able to keep a reversible meter, sure, but there is nothing that states you must have a smart meter. You are perfectly able to refuse a smart meter.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053757#Comment_122053757

There is no basis to pick and choose your replacement meter type.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053767#Comment_122053767

Yes there is, you can add your name to the opt out list for smart meters. Therefore when they come to replace your meter they will need a normal one not a smart meter.

Seriously, this isnt difficult.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053737#Comment_122053737

"Regarding right of refusal, I have been informed by the Commission for Energy Regulation that a customer that does not want an upgraded meter will be able to decline to have this new meter installed." So you can refuse but if the meter is deemed unsafe/end of life it will be switched. You might want to correct you're typo on that TD's name btw.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053774#Comment_122053774

That opt out is for replacement of your existing meter under the current rollout It does not stop the replacement of the meter for any other purpose with what is the current standard meter, e.g. microgeneration or the meter failing to work. They will not stock mechanical meters forever.

And yes, it isn't difficult - but that hasn't stopped you getting the wrong end of the stick!

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053776#Comment_122053776

That is for the rollout programme only. It does not apply in any other circumstance.

There was no typo.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053796#Comment_122053796

What other smart meter programme is there? It's fairly simple, you do NOT need to accept a smart meter no matter if you are a micro generator or not. If it makes you feel better slagging off TD's with childish names that's you're call.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053808#Comment_122053808

Replacement of domestic meters for any other purpose results in a smart meter being installed. That would include the replacement of a meter after getting microgeneration.

The Dáil statement you're hanging on even confirms that the opt-out list doesn't stop a replacement with a smart meter in case of a failure.

They aren't going to have mechanical / non-smart digital meters to fit eventually anyway.

con747

I'll leave it here, I have had solar for over 2 years and have not had a smart meter fitted and if it comes down to it I will refuse one. So unless my meter is deemed unsafe it will stay as it is.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053815#Comment_122053815

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053827#Comment_122053827

It would be facile for networks to declare that the tiny readings you're giving them in summer indicate a faulty meter. So good luck with that.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053837#Comment_122053837

Well I'm doing ok after more than 2 years so thanks.

Clematis

Hi all, reading with interest all the comments.

I have a question regarding PV panels installed for over a year, my old meter spins back and I have gained over 2,000 units.

I do not give a negative reading to my supplier.

Meter Box is outside but side gate is locked, so no access.

I refused a smart meter when they were first being rolled out, didn’t know enough about them, still not up to speed.

August this year the ESBN received my NC6 form wrote to me that they needed to check that my meter was working correctly, they called and wanted to install a smart meter, or a dumb meter, I said no to both, as I would lose my 2000 plus units (didn’t tell tech guy that) and hope to use them during the winter as I have recently installed a heat pump, oil boiler is gone.

ESB tech took my meter reading on the day.

I have turned off my PV panels to use up my units, and when I am near the reading when the Panels went in I will then get a smart meter D/N tariff, not a "smart tariff", as I have read that its not the best & cant go back and export my surplus.

My question is what happens now that ESBN know I have a meter that is running back, they will not like me getting full free units, will they tell my supplier, or penalise me in some way?

Thank you in advance.

PS.

Answer to Niamh Smiths question in Dail Jan 2024,

"if it is a requirement now to have a smart meter in order to install Solar Panels".

Eamon Ryan answered,

"There is no requirement for households to have a smart meter in order to install solar panels."

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2024-01-25/140/?highlight%5B0%5D=smart&highlight%5B1%5D=meters

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122747205#Comment_122747205

Your supplier will probably have questions about the ESBN's meter reading not matching the ones you provided. I have to use up 1300 units I rewound over the winter so I can let the meter man inside the house to read it so it's up to date with my supplier. I'm nearly 3 years with it now and never encountered what you have with them. I just told the contractor installing the meters to postpone it and they gave up contacting me! My meter is from 1964 and they never asked to check it.

Clematis

Many thanks for reply.

I thought it was the NC6 that triggered it, ESBN have my registered Refuse a SM, before I installed panels, so are aware I do not have 1 & now have Microgeneration with a spinning back meter?

Mr Q

My parents house has an old meter which spins backwards and solar. They recently got a credit from Electric Ireland for the units they exported, which surprised me.

Where the meter is they can't avoid it being read.

ECO_Mental

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122748147#Comment_122748147

They estimated it.. if you dont have a smart meter they have a formula based on the kW you have installed and on the NC6. But I thought they were stopping that and if you want FIT then you have to have a smart meter now.

Mr Q

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122749610#Comment_122749610

You would need an NC6 for them to estimate it. There are some installs on the network without paperwork.

They must have read it and paid on the minus units. I'll check their bill if think of it.

Clematis

Thats interesting, my next bill due beginning November, will be interesting to see if my supplier FloGas is aware of the PV?

I read somewhere that you would only get FIT from when ESBN received the NC6, not from the PV installation date, so for me it would be Aug 2024, not 2023?

I doubt that ESBN asked my supplier my reading before PV installation date, & there's GDPR?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122750804#Comment_122750804

Nc6 is the official start of your micro generation

Clematis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122751436#Comment_122751436

But without a smart meter?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122751639#Comment_122751639

Without a smart meter there is no FIT now unless your on a supply that currently cannot be on a smart meter. (Eg three phase or a high MIC connection)

There is no more deemed fit for "normal" connections

Paul Kiernan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122751859#Comment_122751859

Do you not get FIT from the time your NC6 is submitted to the time your smart meter is installed? That could be many months.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122761465#Comment_122761465

I don't think so anymore. It's been nearly a year since deemed fit has stopped for people on 24 HR meters. (A few people here has confirmed it with ESBN)

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122762138#Comment_122762138

No, CRU confirmed to me in writing that FIT only starts from when the smart meter is installed (for people on 24hr meter). Their rationale is we're all able to get smart meters at this point, our choice if we don't.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122747205#Comment_122747205

If you have a house battery, or an EV, or both then a smart meter on a smart tariff is a lot cheaper than a backwards spinning meter. Ask me how I know :)

On a backwards meter is looks better than it is as every unit is 100% 'refunded'. Downside is you can never get an 8c cheap rate. So you're overpaying for a large part of the day than you could of used instead on a cheap night rate. Make sense?

Throw it into excel yourself to start to look at it.

You get a smart tariff with X hours of cheap rate and full up on that, and run dishwasher, washing machine…

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122762556#Comment_122762556

I couldn't remember who exactly, but yes, you were who I was thinking of.

(Best way to find out something on the internet is post something wrong 😆)