Will there be reconditioned batteries in the 2030's?

silverharp

Originally when we were looking at an EV, a pleasant Leaf salesman was saying that selling/fitting reconditioned batteries would spring up as a business in the future , and according to him, batteries dont wear evenly so it would be possible to replace individual blocks. It didnt move me one way or the other but not a topic Ive stumbled over since, was he talking out his hole, or is it a possible path?

AMKC

It's very possible. There was something about it on the Leaf thread I think. Also I am nearly sure it's done in the Nordic countries already.

Gumbo

Already possible. A user on here was quoted €700 an individual cell for their 530e.

The problem is aftermarket technicians to go to. There’s a few but not a lot.

zg3409

I know one Dion commuter that removed all cells from.his car and replaced every individual cell using help from a mechanic friend. He had intended swapping out the whole pack but the newer pack was shaped slightly differently so he instead stripped both packs and swapped every cell. On a leaf you can run a phone app and odb dongle that shows the state and number of every cell so you can identify if one goes bad. I believe on leaf packs certain cells at the rear tend to go sooner due to the design of the pack layout and no active cooling.

I am sure the specialists repairers in the likes of Arklow could do this, but getting a whole newer pack may be a safer bet for the work involved.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058335532/will-there-be-reconditioned-batteries-in-the-2030s

Batteries do wear evenly, that’s the whole purpose of a Battery Management System, what is more likely to happen is for a module/block to fail because one cell dies or water damage etc and then that module is swapped out. This is what Tesla do with their remanufactured battery packs replaced under warranty

As the early EVs had a low range to start with, and some of them are degrading worse than the new packs do, one new pack per car is probably needed during their lifetime in markets where the second hand car prices are high. In UK/Ireland a 10 year old car is already considered half dead and worth a packet of chewing gum so this may never happen here in any volume.

There was supposed to be a factory made upgraded pack for Leafs from NZ but I haven't heard any news for a year of so. However, there is an Irish company rangetherapy.org that is planning to start installing new battery modules from China for 24-40 kWh Leafs, and what's interesting is that this would result in much better range than what car had when it was new. So if you already own a fully paid Leaf that you get along just fine but the battery is a bit knackered, you could get brand new 40-62 kWh guts in the old 24/30 kWh battery enclosure.

It's just a question of money: Is the price going to be comparable to cost of change into a car with a longer range? Also the same parts are already available DIY from China and the kit seems plug and play and highly productised if you're handy and not afraid of dealing with a 300 kg battery pack. A 62 kWh mk1 L24 was driven over 500 km with a single charge (but at rather low speeds) as a demo.

Some more info from another thread:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653439#Comment_121653439

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752495#Comment_121752495

In practice though, "wearing out" is only one part of the problem. Any tiny manufacturing defect which worsens over time, or other premature failure of an individual cell for any reason will bring the whole pack down in an instant.

The biggest issue right now, is OEM's reluctance to facilitate third party repairs under any circumstance to to their understandable concern over fires. That needs to be understood, and addressed, quickly.

https://eeb.org/unlocking-consumer-freedom-eu-parliament-votes-yes-to-right-to-repair/

In a huge win for consumers’ right to repair, the Parliament approved a solid ban on contractual, hardware or software techniques obstructing repair.

The above is a very big step in the right direction, even thought it doesn't specifically apply to vehicles right now.

OEM's have invested heavily in their own battery architectures, or have licensed them from Tier 1 suppliers, so you can be sure that they're lobbying heavily for time to get their plans in order, but the right to repair is coming down the tracks, and the sooner the better IMO. I work in automotive electronics, and we're already making design considerations for the more expensive, larger products which will allow for repair in future.

Swapping a module needs to be akin to swapping out an AA battery, and then the car's BMS running an internal automated sequence to balance the cells (if necessary) over a period of time, with as little software and hardware knowledge as possible.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121749167#Comment_121749167

I think you had a another story on this too, or is it still ongoing?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121763770#Comment_121763770

I do indeed. A BMW bill of €17k hoping to be turned into a €2k bill

Will have an update at the end of this week hopefully but I’m thinking it’s gona be next week tbh.

All based off BMW’s supposedly goodwill system for a premium brand.