New washer and dryer

randombar

Not a standard for renewables forum but looking at a new washer and dryer and is there any models / brands would suit the renewable agenda.

Guessing a heat pump dryer but wouldn't know where to start looking.

Anything going on with washing machines and eco savings?

SD_DRACULA

100% heat pump dryer, uses less than 2kwh for a standard 2 hour cycle

Washing machine I'd say is easier since they have so many options and unless you're washing at crazy temps/long times it won't use up much.

L1011

Something to note on washers is that the 'eco' modes are generally about water saving, not power saving. This isn't particularly useful here with no domestic water charges - unless you're on a well.

There is nowhere near as much scope to save on power as heating water electrically is a standard calculation; and nobody is going to do a heat pump washing machine; particularly with the move to lower temperature washes (15, 20) meaning there's very little heating to do much of the year.

Fast spin washers mean the clothes may - if the load balances at the higher speeds that is - be a lot dryer going in to the dryer and hence dry quicker with less power usage.

If you are still a fan of hot washes and have a supply of cheaper hot water (solar water or an Eddi or whatever) you can still get some washing machines that will take in hot water for 60+ degree washes, e.g. these https://www.ebac.com/washing-machines/what-is-hot-fill

randombar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400554#Comment_121400554

any recommendations on brand or model?

SD_DRACULA

Using a Whirlpool myself for the last few years and does the job, don't have the model no handy as I'm not home but it's also handy to heat up the room (unless you move it to the shed like me and get a toasty shed instead 🤣)

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058323731/new-washer-and-dryer

My new washing machine uses way less energy than the prior 15 year old one. A full 10kg wash is under 0.5kWh. Takes 2+ hours at 40C. Counter intuitively that wash uses less power than a shorter wash (as it uses more water and has to heat the new water each time). So less water should mean less kWh used. Look at the manual and it shows the kWh consumption per wash.

While you're waiting on a new heatpump tumble dryer, turn it to the delicate / eco mode. Uses half the kW on ours but takes longer (of course). But it uses less energy overall - I measured with an energy monitor. 

unkel

Heat pump dryer. 2kWh per cycle instead of the 5kWh per cycle my old condenser dryer used to use. I have the cheapest Bosch, got it for €499 after I got a €100 discount from PowerCity (showing them I could get it from a dodgy online crowd for €499, not telling them there was substantial shipping cost on that too 😁)

This makes a huge difference in my electricity use as we run I'd say 12 cycles per week, that's 12 cycles * 3kWh * 50 weeks = 1.8MWh saved 😶

It does take substantially longer though, about 4 hours for a full 8kg load of mostly cotton

This one I think (check powercity, there seems to be a slightly cheaper "end of line" of these available)

https://www.powercity.ie/product/84001GB

Don't get a Hotpoint, the one we had, had a stupid design point where they used small plastic units in the drum door. They kept breaking. Was fixed all the time under warranty, but still annoying. After the guts of a year, I demanded and got my full money back

L1011

The higher end Bosch heatpump dryer I have (Serie 8 not 4) will do a 8kg (edit: 9kg actually) wash in ~2h rather than 4h. I don't know if it uses more power to do so.

It claims 1:09 if you tell it is a towels/cottons wash but always extends that based on the moisture sensor. Sometimes by quite a bit!

I bought it with one of the last ever SEAI grants for getting a gas boiler in - as in I paid the installer in full and got the grant back myself some time later.

on_the_roots

I'm not sure this is worth the investment replacing a standard dryer with a heat pump model. They are usually at least double the price and the difference in consumption is questionable from the financial perspective.

But I like the heat pump models because of the way they work. Lower temps with longer cycles, it is better for clothes.

I have a traditional dryer that came with the house and my strategy is to run it exclusively on early morning cheap tariff only and this is fine. During winter I rarely use it, I just place the clothes near one of the rads and they will be dry by the end of the day.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403758#Comment_121403758

If you are using a dryer regularly, with a busy house, it could be going every day.

If you are in the market for one, the heatpump one would be hard to pass over due to how much less power it uses.

They are a enclosed dehumidifier, the heat that happens as part of the course is just a nice byproduct.

If air drying I would really recommend a dehumidifier.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403758#Comment_121403758

Even if I ran my heat pump dryer exclusively on my 5c night rate, my electricity savings are 1800kWh * 5c = €90 per year

That doesn't quite justify financially to dump your old perfectly working one and buy a new one, of course. Even if heavily used (like mine). Very different for someone on a flat rate of 30c, then the savings would be €540 per year

At €499, the heat pump dryer is of course only a little bit more expensive than a condensor dryer, so if the time comes to replace your old one, you should go for a heat pump one

slave1

Whatever you buy make sure it has proper timer settings so you can avail of night time rates and day PV generation if you ever go that route. As it happens I'm heat pump dryer too and all A+ ratings with proper timers (some cheaper models only allow +3 +6 +9 hour times etc which annoy me)

randombar

Need a new one as the old dryer was in the garage . . . . .

randombar

Looks like there's Candy one for a reasonable price.

https://www.powercity.ie/product/CSEH8A

Not sure about them as a brand though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402554#Comment_121402554

Which site did you quote there?

Want to do the same as my dryer blew yesterday. At 13 years old and a condenser it's served it purpose and not worth repairing (again)

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121411733#Comment_121411733

Those offers change all the time. Just ring or go into Powercity and tell them (makeyuppy) do it for €499 and ask if they can match that

And I know full well that the lower end Bosch are not on a par with their higher end and haven't been for many years. But for under €500 this seems to be the best heat pump dryer out there from the reviews I've read

micks_address

the hoover heatpump drier i have will dry a load for about 900 watts in 2.5 hours.. 8kg.. i dont jam it full.. i had a condenser that used at least 2.5kwh or more to dry a load.. i picked up the heatpump one on adverts and sold the condenser for about the same so cost very little.. seems to be no getting away from using a drier in our house especially for november/december/january..

SharkMX

PArents dryer packed in about 2 years ago. Since then they just hang the washing on a rack in the utility room and a dehumidifier goes on during the night rate. Costs pennies to dry the clothes even in winter. And I havent ruined anything in the drier - bonus.

ShadowSA

We also use a dehumidifier overnight and the clothes are dry, can do two loads and both will be dry. Wife wants a tumble dryer as you then have no washing up on an indoor line, personally I am not sure why as the way we do it we save on electricity plus clothing doesn't get damaged by the dryer.

We would need to put the dryer in the shed, heard that a condensor dryer would work but a heatpump dryer wont like being in a shed.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440398#Comment_121440398

Heatpump tumble dryers are an enclosed dehumidifier, the heat generated is just a nice side effect.

I can't see any reason why one won't work in the shed.

ShadowSA

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440415#Comment_121440415

They say you need a warm room as it uses the ambient air.

L1011

It uses the latent energy of the air, basically. If you have it in a particularly cold environment there is less of that to use

Same reason condensing dehumidifiers don't work in cold rooms

graememk

Well they are condensing dehumidifiers.

Internet says down to 5c, but with extended drying time. (50% longer), and 30% longer at about 10c.

Cold air does have less moisture in it, that's why you put on the Aircon and heat to demist.

I suppose, you can weigh up the extra run time in colder weather Vs the savings when it's generally milder out.

Also depends on how cold the shed actually is too.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400585#Comment_121400585

The hot wash option, on single feed machines can also be achieved with a TMV from a CH heating system such as this, the in house ones are restricted ti 43 max, the one below is max 65

https://heatingpartswarehouse.com/product/firebird-combi-thermostatic-mixing-valve/?utm_source=google+ads&utm_campaign=17002136614&utm_medium=cpc&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsrL71eLtggMVgd_tCh3XBQIrEAQYBSABEgKR3vD_BwE

I don always have hot water in the DHW, but in winter yes when oil is on so by plumbing it this way, I always feed from the DHW and if its hot its hot!

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440745#Comment_121440745

Hadn't thought of these being available but it makes sense

I've got a dishwasher that will take up to, erm, something quite hot on the input and is plumbed to the hot due not having a spare cold near it, rather than due to the water already being hot.

But if/when that house is ever replumbed I'll be keeping that, and your suggestion now, in mind. Has a lot of south facing roof - bungalow - so some tubes would fit alongside PV

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440548#Comment_121440548

Only get a heatpump one. Will save a fortune over it's life. If it's a small shed, it will warm up fast once it starts. So will only be less efficient at the start of the cycle.

alexf1

Question about condensation with a heat pump dryer and humidity/heat; I currently have a normal condenser dryer in a windowless utility room off the kitchen. The amount of hot/moist air that comes from the current one is fairly substantial. The utility room has an extractor fan but closing the door while the dryer is running is not possible. I need to leave the door to the kitchen open and would then need to open the kitchen window as well. The air is warm and humid in the utility room, I don't have anu issue with damp or anything, just uncomfortably warm/humid. Does a heat pump dryer throw out the same warm/humid air into a small utility room?

Looking at the labels on most heat pump dryers is will have a 'moisture' level of B on a scale from A-G, which annoyingly is the same as my current condenser dryer. There is a Miele heat pump dryer which has a moisture level of A available but it's more expensive than my first, second and third car combined. :( (I'm talking about the reading on the bottom of the energy label where it's shows the power consumption and drying time etc. )

graememk

Doesn't a normal condenser tumble dryer have a thing to drain the water or something you have to empty? Or am I mistaken?

Thats why tumble dryers are either vented to outside or condensing (to a tank or a drain)

unkel

+1

If a regular condenser dryer belches out moisture, there is something wrong with it

And to answer one of your qustions: the amount of heat generated is directly related to the electricity the dryer consumers. In my case it went down from 5kWh per cycle (8kg) to 2kWh per cycle when I bought a heat pump dryer, so 60% less heat generated

L1011

Heatpump dryers put out far less moist air than old style condensors are prone to. Every condensor I've ever used put out quite moist air so if its not normal, its an exceptionally common failure mode.

You either need to empty a water cassette or supply a drain - mine (Bosch) fits down the same pipe as the washing machine drain but if you have it plumbed rather than shoved in to an open pipe it needs a new drain, some are really narrow bore like mine, some aren't.

alexf1

Thanks lads, I was hoping that was the case. The salesman said they'd be the same due to the B rating on moisture but I was thinking it couldn't be as bad due to less heat. I'll get the best one I can afford anyways.

steamdave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403758#Comment_121403758

I'm late to the party on this topic, but here's my take:

I was looking into a combined washer dryer because of space considerations. Was looking at the high end Bosch models. then one day I saw an advert for electrically heated drying racks. After some research, the conclusion was that although they are more cost efficient than a dryer, they are not very good for the house atmosphere because of the condensation. What was suggested as a better alternative was to use a standard clothes airer and put a dehumidifier close by. Either way is cheaper (and slower) than a tumble drier, but the dehumidifier is better for the internal atmosphere.

A couple of sites

https://www.themoneyedit.com/household-bills/energy/heated-airer-vs-dehumidifier

https://moneyweek.com/personal-finance/605581/heated-airer-vs-dehumidifier

Dave

Jonathan

HYN @steamdave. Hope house repairs/rebuild going well.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557131#Comment_121557131

Would second the dehumidifier if not going tumble dryer. Also takes the edge of the humidity in the humid weather.

Some also have hepa filters, which should clean the air a bit too! As long as you don't leave it over 2 yrs... Like me

steamdave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557172#Comment_121557172

Thanks Jonathan. Taking much longer than expected. Probably a few months more before I can get back in. Where have all the tradesmen gone? - Back to Poland I s'pose!

Dave

TheSunIsShining

I popped energy monitoring plug onto the dryer - heat pump one. Family of 4 here, lots of washing, and using about 41 or 42kw a month

alexf1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446362#Comment_121446362

Ended up needing one just before christmas because the motor on our old one broke/seized. Went for a Samsung 5+ heat pump jobbie (got €80 off retail in Power City with haggle technique). Very happy with it and the old issue of utility room becoming a sauna is gone too! Drying time doesn't seem too much longer than the old condensing one, the program might say 3.5 hours for a regular cotton load but it adjusts that estimate after a while and would often be done in 2 - 2.5 hours. It's quiet and pretty much no heat comes out of it into the room and I'm glad it'll use less electricity than the old one.

We have one of these clothes dryers mounted above the bath. Very convenient and clothes dry very fast. Plenty of turbulent air up high it seems! https://www.amazon.co.uk/ceiling-mounted-clothes-dryer-drying-length/dp/B008OW2Y3M/ref=sr_1_24?crid=2DIC0C9D7T5YD&keywords=ceiling+airer+drying+rack+pulley&qid=1704528614&sprefix=ceiling+airer%2Caps%2C53&sr=8-24

batistuta9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559624#Comment_121559624

You know the per load?

Eoinbmw

My next dryer will be a condesor the bosch heatpump is a complete pain in the balls you constantly have to restart it as it never fully dries clothes so much so that they become smelly it takes so long! i cant see how they are cheper to run if they have to run for hours and hours!

user1842

If you buy a heat-pump dryer make sure it has reverse tumble action. If not, most sheets will just end up in a big ball and never dry properly.

Unfortunately very few heat-pump dryers have this very basic function, for some odd reason.

Beko, Haier, Zanussi and some Bosch models appear to have this, for me, essential function.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584395#Comment_121584395

It is confusing how any device can run longer but use less electricity. But they do when on the right settings. New dishwashers and washing machines can take 3+ hours to run. I put energy plugs on them to test the eco settings and they do use less energy. They 'slosh' the water around a lot more which cuts down the expensive part of heating the water.

Same with the heatpump dryers.They use less energy turned into heat so run 'low and slow'. Plus the refrigerant in them makes them more energy effective than a condenaing one.

Check the usual maintenance stuff like filters clear. Manual will step thru the troubleshooting process. Try will less clothes in the machine too and see of that helps. Shouldn't use more energy once it's set to stop based on the dryness of the clothes..

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584568#Comment_121584568

I've had two reverse action back to back and can't avoid the double duvet big ball, it's pot luck from one go to the next, single duvets don't seem to have the same issue

Tree

Buttoning up the duvets helps a lot, but also fitted sheets are just as bad for balling. You just have to keep listening and when you hear a thump thump go unball them.

user1842

Dryer balls also help

hago123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559624#Comment_121559624

Hi, can I ask how much this 42KWH in Euros per month? I am trying to find out what will be the cost if I use a heat pump tumble dryer for 3 times a week.

Any preferred models/brand?

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602526#Comment_121602526

multiply it by the electricity rate you pay. so if its lets say 30 cents per kWh then 42kWh would cost you €12.60 per month.

Jonathan

Up and running with a new HP dryer this weekend. Feels like cheating. 😂

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121616714#Comment_121616714

You're a stats man, give us some numbers when you see how it goes:) I'm running a 200w dehumidifier 24 x 7 instead but as much to keep a room from getting cold for the kids guinea pigs in that room. It spits out enough heat to stop the room getting badly cold. Downside is that room has become a defacto utility room unexpectedly.

I try not use the condensing one bar for sheets or to finish towels and sheets off. It's in shed (small house) so any heat created is lost. Use it once a week tops at mo.

Jonathan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121617604#Comment_121617604

Forgot to come back to you on this. Stats below for dryer cycle below. Cycle finished at 10:50 and then anti-crease function kicked in every few mins until 12:40.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121921751#Comment_121921751

Wow, that's night and day energy wise compared to a non heatpump dryer. I've a dehumidifier that uses a constant 200w, and yours only uses 400-500w constant - that's brill. I try not to use our dryer, or as little as I can to finish the drying.

slave1

I recorded all my white goods a while back, usage/peak demand etc. must dig out and post as some sort of reference