Gardaí to be given insurance details for 3 million vehicles on daily basis

Sabre Man

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1116/1416831-mibi-to-give-gardai-insurance-details-for-3m-vehicles/

Great news!

Miscreant

About time for this one TBH! They already have access to motor tax records through ANPR so this will increase their capability some more.

Perhaps this will be a good impetus for getting rid of having the disks in the window in a couple of years. We shall see.

hoodie6029

The 188,000 uninsured vehicles on the road mentioned in the article is a low estimate. That’s all that they can definitely say are uninsured and on the road. Untaxed and Un-NCTed cars are essentially ‘ghost’ cars. They could be parked in garage permanently or be driven everyday. English regs here permanently in the same boat. Cars belonging to deceased people too. Relatives get them and never do a change of ownership.

bazz26

Will it make much of a difference though given the number of patrols and checkpoints on the roads are at an all time low? Having the information is one thing but having the resources to use it when needed, is another.

Miscreant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376066#Comment_121376066

Therein lies the overall issue really. There are laws to tackle almost every type of crime in this country but due to lack of resources, quite a few are not enforced.

I know of people who drove without tax, insurance, NCT or a licence for many years and were never caught because they used "back" roads where there was even less of a chance to come across a Garda patrol than there would be on a motorway or main road. At least with this insurance access for the Gardai, hopefully the low hanging fruit can be caught and taken off the road.

feelings

Surely they can get the toll road data/regs and just auto issue court fines/points/summons? That would an easy way to get at a large chunk of that ~188k uninsured.

irishgeo

Don't all gardai have access to that new app where they could check vehicles details at the side of the road? Or was it just the roads unit.

SuperBowserWorld

Hard to believe it's 2023 and this is only happening now.

We are a strange society that gives all our information to Facebook et al, but the police can't even get insurance details easily.

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058322818/gardai-to-be-given-insurance-details-for-3-million-vehicles-on-daily-basis

agree

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376066#Comment_121376066

Hopefully it's set up to the ANPR cameras and hopefully every Garda vehicle has ANPR. Just driving around they should catch a lot of vehicles.

The UK got rid of their disks and their evasion has spiralled. Discs are still needed as we've yet to improve the Mark 1 human eye.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376289#Comment_121376289

Nope. The car itself may not have an insurance policy but the person driving it could be insured through driving other cars extensions or motor trade insurance etc. and the fine would be automatically sent to the registered owner. Or vice versa the car itself could be insured and no fine issued but the driver doesn’t even have a license.

It could potentially work for NCT & tax but not for insurance. Too many variables at play.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376529#Comment_121376529

Only 100 Garda vehicles out of 3,500 have ANPR fitted. And thats in the whole country.

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376066#Comment_121376066

It will make a huge difference and will undoubtedly lead to a greater number of prosecutions.

All Gardaí will be able to check the validity of insurance at the roadside with mobility devices and the returned information will now be accurate. People with discs on display and then cancelling a policy won't get a away with it anymore. The information Gardaí at the roadside were relying on before was woefully inadequate and some uninsured people got away with it as the Garda would see that a policy was associated with the vehicle, would be unable to determine if it was still valid while at the roadside and would take the driver at their word. Some might make the lawful demand for a certificate to be produced, some might not if the person seemed respectable or whatever. Then when a certificate was produced a Garda would have to contact an insurance company to check if it was valid, which did not happen in the vast majority of cases. The status quo just made it too easy to get away with.

Long overdue and it will have a big impact. Next step should be to massively enhance the rollout of ANPR.

It's a joke that the Gardaí are only getting this data now. It's not something anyone in the insurance industry, the Gardaí or the RSA should be boasting about. Literally two decades behind the curve on this one.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376567#Comment_121376567

FFS. Any idea why so few?

kirk.

The gardai have to pull each driver over and confirm the car is uninsured

Nothing can be confirmed by toll cameras or anpr alone?

It sounds like another "deterrent" that won't result in many prosecutions

Henry Ford III

This has to be a good idea. It's very late coming mind you.

bazz26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376577#Comment_121376577

But all that is based on the premise that there are enough patrol cars on the road to catch more of these chancers. They don't currently have the required resources and more AGS members are leaving than signing up.

The real problem is not the tools for the job, it's the availability of bodies to use the tools. Outside of a few big towns and cities regular AGS patrols are few and far between.

antodeco

Sure I still dont understand why we dont have Bus Lane cameras, let alone ANPR cameras. Serial offenders using it everyday and dont get caught.

zell12

Are there really 5m drivers in Ireland out of a population of 5.2m?

 ..an agreement between insurers and Garda to share data on five million drivers.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-now-have-access-to-insurance-data-in-crackdown-on-rogue-drivers/a1482760631.html

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376529#Comment_121376529

The U.K. never had insurance disks, you mean tax disks. UK was using ANPR to pull over cars without insurance for more than 10 years.

bigroad

How does it stop someone driving their brothers or cousins car that is insured but the driver is not.

mickdw

Watching uk police shows, the ele tron system highlight a car for not being insured. They then do a traffic stop and find out the full details. Good system.

As for someone driving an Insured car while.not themselves being insured to drive it, I'd say that is common too but of less concern to.Gardai as whether named or not, the insurance company are bound to pay out other party damage caused by a car that has a policy in force.

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376932#Comment_121376932

It usually results in other crime being discovered too when the vehicles are flagged for no insurance.

TinyMuffin

How do people get licenses and insurance when they can’t even write their own name?

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376868#Comment_121376868

When they removed the tax disc tax evasion increased a lot. ANPR can do a lot but removing the discs from the window isn't one of them

bigroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377000#Comment_121377000

One of the popular insurance policys for a certain group of people is ,road risk,or what is a garage policy.

Its an open driving policy for , supposed employees of said garage.

So the whole family including cousins can drive.

tayto lover

Lets hope that they get access to the Driving Licence register too and keep some of the estimated 11,600 people who have never passes a driving test off the roads.

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/life-long-learners-more-than-11600-motorists-still-on-provisional-permits-after-20-years/42255567.html

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377000#Comment_121377000

All insurers have facilities and procedures to deal with vulnerable customers

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376613#Comment_121376613

Cost, probably.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376320#Comment_121376320

Most Gardai have the phones and the app, but I don't think the app had access to accurate insurance data until now.

feelings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376555#Comment_121376555

How many people are driving uninsured cars on their own insurance? Surely that would be a very small percentage. Those people would just have to provide a copy of their own insurance documents and the fine/points are cancelled.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379265#Comment_121379265

How are fixed ANPR cameras supposed to identify the driver to send the fine to? The fine would be sent to the registered owner of the vehicle. How does the registered owner prove it wasn’t them driving?

Like I said, too many variables.

rob w

This is great news, and hopefully it will deter people driving without insurance!

But did they never have access to insurance details before - or just not on a daily basis?

I had a garda car driving along behind me about 10 years ago, next thing lights came on and got pulled over. The garda walked straight to my window and said your insurance is out of date (pretty smugly) - without even looking at the disc in the window. I had just renewed very recently (a couple of days previous) and had a valid disc in the window. He checked the disc and said something along the lines that his system mustn't be updated yet with the latest info. Off he went, but I had to go and produce my cert at a station within the 10 days afterwards

Dont know if it was ANPR that flagged it or he was bored and just ran the reg while driving behind me

Furze99

Long overdue and hopefully will be used to weed out the freeloaders.

poppers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379356#Comment_121379356

Im sure it would work in same way that it does for speeding, its the registered owner that gets the letter if the car is caught speeding, its up to them to then pass on details of person driving their car that day.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379356#Comment_121379356

If the registered owner will not be able to prove that they were not the driver that committed an offence then maybe they should not give their car to that person!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379435#Comment_121379435

That’s a bit stupid to be fair? What are you suggesting that if I loan my car to say my brother I should have him sign a contract to say he’s using it from 9am til 5pm today? 😂

camera vans (GoSafe) take a photo of the driver for example in case of dispute. What is your alternative suggestion other than “don’t give them car then”?

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376352#Comment_121376352

Exactly. Remember the civil liberties backlash against the Public Services card a few years ago too? ‘Who are the gubbermint to know this information about us?’ Enables GPS on phone, photos of everything online etc etc.

It was all about people engaged in welfare fraud and undocumented workers.

Same thing in the UK 20 years ago when Blair tried to introduce a national identity card. All the undocumented workers would have been done for and Business couldn’t have that and it was scrapped.

There will be the same backlash when static ANPR is deployed. Multiagency check points are always catching people engaged in multiple scams. If we can do it with a camera now, why not?

poppers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379439#Comment_121379439

if you loaned your car to yor brother why would he be giving it to other people, Also if if was my car and he had no insurance for the car then hes not driving it at any time no matter what he signs.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379439#Comment_121379439

So are you happy taking any penalty points that are earned while he is driving it or are you confident that you'll remember that he was driving it at that time? Are you happy for any potential claim to be made against your policy were there a hit and run?

What you are suggesting is that if someone else is driving your car (and so has your permission to drive it) then you can wash your hands of any responsibility in terms of the car being lawfully on the road.

As the registered owner of a car, it is your responsibility to ensure that it is driven lawfully. I didn't mention a contract but you may need to keep some form of log to list who (other than you) was driving and when. If you will not be able to prove who was driving it at a particular time then as I said don't lend it out!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379469#Comment_121379469

Irrelevant questions.

If I loan my car, how can I prove who I loaned it to and when?

GoSafe take pictures of the driver, ANPR doesn’t. So if I am disputing I wasn’t the driver, how can I prove it was someone else?

Insurance etc aside.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379525#Comment_121379525

Same as with a penalty points notification - you "nominate" the actual driver and AGS follow up with them

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377055#Comment_121377055

Only if the whole family including cousins actually work in the garage.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379356#Comment_121379356

The registered owner either nominates another driver or takes the fine and penalty points themselves.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379625#Comment_121379625

In reality tho you don’t even need a garage to obtain the insurance and you don’t need to prove that anyone on the policy actually works there.

bigroad

There is also the weekend test drive or even take it for the whole week sir if you like.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379784#Comment_121379784

Garage insurance requires trade plates to be displayed in the front and rear window of the car as a reg check of the car won't pull up garage details.

In terms of an owner knowing who is driving for my old work vehicles the employer (owner of van) required a log of everytime the driver changed as typically there were 2 people in the front and drivers would swap mid long trip. They needed to know so they could assign penalty points for speeding to correct person. The speed vans can take photos of the rear of vehicles but they prefer the front as less chance of dispute.

65535

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379462#Comment_121379462

The so called 'Public Services card' was issued by a PRIVATE COMPANY who had access to all the BIOMETRIC information - nothing to do with Government or Car Insurance

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380014#Comment_121380014

A third party contracted by the State to carry out the work. Everything still belonged to the State. A private company issues driving licences, another administers theory testing and hundreds of other State services and tasks are done by private companies.

There was nothing untoward about it. Just a red herring for the anti-everything brigade to bray on about.

The messaging and PR around the delivery and roll out of the card was atrocious though.

People give their biometric data to Apple, Google, Samsung, Fitbit to do with what they please. Put their runs and cycles on Strava.

An Post uses facial recognition on their cctv in post offices to catch welfare fraud. That’s biometrics too.

R.O.R

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379957#Comment_121379957

Garage insurance doesn't require trade plates. If it's untaxed / un-insured on a test drive with a customer you'll need it, but I'm covered on garage insurance on my car, with an insurance disc in the window (no reg number on the insurance disc) and plates on the car.

Long term demo / staff cars / fleet cars are going to need to be loaded up to a data base. Can't remember when that comes in to play, but it's still unlikely I'll get stopped between now and then, even though whatever I'm driving isn't going to show up as insured at the moment.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379784#Comment_121379784

What insurers are offering that kind of policy? For example, this insurer is very clear about the limitations of family cover?

https://www.bradyinsurance.ie/en/business-insurance/motor-trade/faqs

It sounds like you've been listening to people who really don't care about the small print of the cover they've bought, and are actually driving without cover - but won't find out about it until something goes wrong

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376901#Comment_121376901

It doesn’t, but let’s not have the perfect be the enemy of the good?