Looking for 300 Win Mag ammo and advice

Exp271

Does anyone have any 300 Win Mag ammo. I am preferably looking for already opened boxes as I just got a Howa 1500 and it is consistently shooting 1.75 to 2.25 inch groups at 100 yards. I am almost certain it isn't me flinching as I can shoot my 270 in .5 to .75 MOA groups at the same distance in the same conditions with the same rest.

I am using hornady 180 grain Custom International for the 300WM and I'm guessing the rifle may not like the load. I also shot Hornady SSTs and the groups are slightly worse with those. Long story short does anyone have 5 or so rounds from a different brand that I can try. I don't fancy paying 60e+ for a box of ammo just to try it out. I will sort you out for the rounds of course.

The scope I am using is a Nikko stirling 3-12 x56. She held zero on my 270 with no issues, I am also wondering is the 300WM recoil too much for the scope even though it says rated for all calibres.

Any help is appreciated.

Exp271

Btw I have all the screws (bases, rings, action etc) torqued to the manufacturer specs. Nothing is loose. I must have checked everything 4 or more times by now.

Richard308

Is the rifle new? Any possible the barrel is burned out?

Exp271

The rifle is brand new. About 60 or 70 rounds through it. I tried two different stocks on it, one from my 270 and one that's glass bedded for it. Same results.

RD88

Have you looked at the crown you probably have but the slightest of tiny marks will effect accuracy I remember years ago my 308 wasn't grouping that well I brought it to Dom Byrne at the time neither him nor me could see **** all wrong with it but he recrowned it and it went from doing 1.5 inches at 100 to doing it at 300 straight away might be worth trying for the sake of it maybe.

Cass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121364070#Comment_121364070

Was it doing it before you changed stock or since?

Torque settings on the stock to action bolts can have an effect on barrel harmonics.

Long shot but without repeating everything here it might be worth while checking.

To be honest I'd imagine it's a case of the ammo just not suiting so trying brands should help clarify that.

Exp271

It's been doing the same for both stocks. It's new and has never shot under MOA. I've got other people to try a 3 shot group and the groups are identical no matter who shots them.

The action screws are torqued to 50 inch pounds like the manufacturer states.

Although it is brand new I did inspect the crown and it looks perfect.

Cass

Have you checked that there is no contact between the stock and action/barrel?

Slide a piece of paper down between the stock and barrel. The paper should go to the front of the receiver without any tightness or obstructions.

What scope have you on it and have you tried a different scope (even rings) as a 300 winmag can hammer the crap out of inferior gear.

Are the groupings you are getting consistent or are they best? If they're consistent then it's a minor issue. If it's the best group then there is a bigger problem that is "hopping" the poi and this is usually harmonics or sight/mount issue.

Worse case scenario it's a lemon of a rifle (which can happen) and no amount of checks will find a resolution but that is worse case scenario.

Exp271

Barrel is free floated plus Pat Sludds glass bedded it for me. The absolute best 3 shot group is ever got was almost an inch. And that was a one off. Nearly all groups were 1.75 to 2.5 inch groups, moat being a touch more than 2 inch. So I would say the groups are consistent.

I have warne 2 Piece bases. Warne 30mm med rings and a Nikko Stirling 3-12 x56 that held a perfect zero on my 270. The scope objective doesn't even come close to touching the barrel.

Cass

To be blunt, and I've said this to others recently, it's damn near impossible to diagnose over the net. All anyone can do is throw out suggestions.

One thing I would say is take nothing for granted. Example is your scope. Because it held on your 270 doesn't mean it will on the 300wm. Better to try another scope and be sure.

Your trigger weight could be too much and while the pull seems good it could be causing a repeatable and constant shift when being fired. In other words don't dismiss yourself, or others, as a cause.

There is simply too much to check. From rings, scope, stock, torque settings, free floating, crown, chamber, cleanliness, ammo, etc, etc.

First and foremost you need to try different ammo. I knew of two other lads with the same caliber and both struggled to find a good round with one lad resolving that 1.5 inch at 100 yards was as good as he was going to get.

Exp271

Yeah I'd like to try different ammo, that's why I asked does anyone else have a few rounds I could try.

The original shop I bought it from are taking it back tomorrow to have a look over it.

Cass

I done some checking online to see if there is anything I've overlooked and the Howa have a good rep (I have one myself in 223 and it's a tack driver), however two reports I found had the exact same problem as you.

One was a guy using reloads in the UK and so it could be down to the bullet make up.

The other guy couldn't figure it out, went it back to the dealer, and after testing the dealer even said it's not right and changed the rifle after failing to diagnose the issue.

You're on the right track asking for ammo recommendations first as it could be as simple a fix as that so keep us informed as Id like to know if you solve it and secondly it's a great source of info for others in a similar position regardless of the gun make/caliber.

Exp271

Thanks so much for the help Cass. I will let you know tomorrow what the dealer says. I'm almost certain it's either the ammo, scope not holding zero or the rifle itself. Just got another man to fire it this evening and same results with him too.

hiddenmongoose

Its already been stated above that it is near impossible to diagnose over the net, and Cass is right on that.

With that said I will offer 2 points, and this is from someone that gets ammo to test regularly and has years of experience running magnum calibres.

Firstly your scope and mounts, while they held zero on your 270, it does not mean either are able for the 300wm..its a different beast. So I would ask someone could you try their scope and mounts and see will it group. I run a Sphur one piece mount on my 338LM for this reason

Secondly, when trying ammo to see will it group, you are going to need 15 to 30 rounds to see the potential. Time and time again when I test ammo, switching from one brand to another and then back to my normal ammo I see the first 5 round group is often 1.5MOA second 5 rounds the same..then they start to shrink, by the 5th or 6th 5 round group the groups will now be shooting at their best.. the gun will then continue to group the ammo at this level. When I then return to my normal ammo(which is ragged single hole groups) It does the same thing, starts at 1.5MOA size then by group 5 or 6 it setttles back. I have seen this over multiple rifles of various brands from remington to Accuracy International and from calibres from 223 to 338. I am also not alone in seeing this as another friend who tests ammo has also experienced it.

Exp271

Thanks for the help. I'm going to wait and see what the dealer has to say tomorrow. Maybe it's something obvious. Failing that I'll get different types of ammo and throw my 3-24 Octa scope on it. My own feeling is that it's the scope.

Larry60

I have been using aCZ550 Medium in .300WinMag for about 6 years now. My rifle is a bit finicky with ammo too. Where are you based? I am in NW.

Exp271

I am based in the south east.

Larry60

A bit far too far to meet and give you a few rds.

Exp271

Yeah true. I'll see what the dealer says tomorrow. I rang a place that sells RWS 300 Win Mag ammo and he wanted 87e for a box of 20. I thought 60e a box was stiff for the Custom International Soft Points.

Exp271

Ok so I got a text from the dealer this morning saying to drop it up today but he won't be back until Friday to look at it. I'm going to get a box of federal power shok and try that in the mean time with a different scope

Exp271

Okay so I got a box of Federal Power Shok. Going to shoot that today and see how it groups. If it's the same problem of 2.5 inch groups I'll change scopes and try again. I have a box of Remington Accutips coming tomorrow.

By the end of tomorrow I'll have used 4 different types of ammo.

2 scopes

3 shooters

2 men checking over everything like screws etc.

2 stocks.

Exp271

Success? Failure?

I went out today with what I think were the last 2 variables in mind, the scope and the ammo. I got a box of Federal Power Shok to try, also 180 grain. I put the Nikko Stirling Octa 3-24x56 scope from my 270 onto it. My own feeling was that the scope was not holding correct zero.

First 2 shots with the federal were .6 of a inch apart. I have never seen that up until now. The third shot I know I pulled which made the group a 1.45 inch group. I decided to try out the Hornady Custom International again and the first 2 shots with that were .45 of an inch. Then disaster struck.

About 2 or 3 weeks prior I bought this Nikko Stirling Octa 3-24x56. It was great and zero'd nicely. On its maiden voyage my friend spotted deer in a field about 250 yards from us. I couldn't see a thing because the scope was so blurry. I adjusted the parallax from minimum to maximum, nothing changed. I brought the scope back to the shop the next day and it turned out to be an intermittent problem with the parallax adjustment. So I got a brand new replacement model. This brand new replacement model is what I used and after these few shots with the 300WM same issue struck again. So I had to stop the test. I decided to take one more shot even though it was blurry, on lower zoom it wasn't as blurry but it was still pretty bad (and no it was mirage I was dealing with as I waited 3-5 minutes between each shot).

The third shot of the Hornady either wasn't on paper or went through the exact same hole as one of the previous 2 shots, which I think it did because one of the holes was ever so slightly bigger than the other.

I am very disappointed with the scopes. Although these little 3 shot groups are promising I will need to get a decent scope before I can confirm anything. But with all that being said a .45 MOA group straight away with a different scope gives me a little hope. (it has never come close to shooting under MOA before today let alone half MOA)

Cass

If nothing else you've gone from a myriad of potential problems to probably one. This is why I suggested above:

Cass - One thing I would say is take nothing for granted. Example is your scope. Because it held on your 270 doesn't mean it will on the 300wm. Better to try another scope and be sure.

Have you access to a better quality scope, loan or own? This will tell you for sure but it seems you've found your problem.

I'd be interested to see the results with a better scope so make sure to update when you get to try it.

Exp271

The scope I used today was a different scope, sorry maybe I wasn't clear. It seems to have held zero but the parallax problem came into like before. I assumed the 3-12 scope that I used before today was the problem after I got the 2 other guys to shoot a group, even though I was assured it was all caliber rated.

I'll try sort out the scopes tomorrow with the dealer as both are clearly faulty imo. They come with a lifetime warranty, one is 2 weeks old and the other is 13 months old. I'll keep you updated.

Cass

Yeah, I understand it's a different scope but my point was that because one works on one rifle doesn't mean it'll work on another.

Perhaps you got lucky with the one on your 270, or unlucky with the one on your 300wm. I assume you went with Nikko Sterling again, because it worked on your .270?

Absolutely no offence intended but I wouldn't rate Nikko Sterling as god enough for large calibre rifles. I say this to experience, not snobbery.

I had one on a 6.5 many years back. Held for a.whilenthen.ent belly up. Had it replaced and the new one soon went belly up too. The RFD told me that even though the manufacturer claims all caliber rated they're really not. In the end I saved up and went for my first Nightforce.

This is why I asked if you had access to a good quality scope, even just to test with. If you had a quality scope, again no offence to your choice of scope, that is proven to be all caliber rated, then you could do some proper testing and finally get a definitive answer.

Exp271

Yeah I'm going to try get a good scope today like a vortex or something. It'll probably just be a loan but that's all I need right now

Exp271

After speaking with the dealer, the rifle and both scopes were given back to the original supplier of Howa rifles in Ireland for him to look at.

He said he'll look at it tomorrow when he's back but I've dealt with this man before and I'm not going to hold my breath.

Exp271

Original supplier came back today and confirmed that the scope was gone bad. I'll be getting the gun back tomorrow with an Arken EP5 on it. I'll test it out and let you know how it goes

Exp271

Went out today with brand new Warne rings and a brand new Arken EP5. Took two 4 shot groups and one 5 shot group. Still well over an inch. There was very little to no wind, shooting from a seated bench position.

Cass

Are those photos the way you shot them or have you turned the images to upload them.

I'm asking to determine if it's vertical or horizontal stringing you are experiencing.

Exp271

I think my phone auto rotated or something. The vertical grouping is all under 1MOA. It is the horizontal grouping that is off up to 3 inches.

Exp271

Sorry one groups vertical is slightly over an inch. Maybe inch and a quarter or 3/8

Cass

So the vertical has improved?

Horizontal is usually wind but if it was mild then, while not able to be completely discarded, it can be discounted to a degree.

I think I asked before if the barrel was free floated and iirc you said it was so that eliminates touching (the stock) as a cause.

It can be the shooter but it can also be the ammo. Without a chronograph and the ability to know the velocity of each round this is also hard to verify. As each brand is different the charge, seating depth, and velocities of the rounds my vary.

Did you try different ammo or use the same throughout?

If it's the same ammo then I'd suggest, and I know it's not cheap, to try other brands and see if it improves or worsens.

I had factory ammo for a 6.5 (lapua) and was getting terrible groups. Set up and ran a few through my chronic and I had deviations of over 200fps with the same ammo, from the same box.

I also had a 30-06 Sauer that would group the frist two, perhaps three shots and they would eventually start to climb high and right. Every time, without fail. A friend with the same rifle in 25-06 had the same issue. After wrecking my head for months I just resigned myself to the fact this is what the rifle done and as I would only ever fire two, maybe three shots, when hunting I lived with it.

Try different ammo, and check results. Only then can you make a prognosis and hopefully move forward towards a solution.

Exp271

Yes it seems the vertical has improved.

There was very little to no wind today where I was.

I do not have a chrono.

I seem to have the same issue. My first 2 shots were half to 3/4 inch apart and the third shot would fly off 2 inches away.

I have got 3 other types of ammo. I will try it again next week and let you know.

Exp271

I've still not had a chance to get out. I'm starting to think those last 3 groups after the new scope went on was me pulling shots.

I was thinking of going to the Midlands range this Saturday. Would anyone who knows more than I do be around to take a look at it? I'll be bringing 4 different boxes of ammo to try (Hornady Soft points, Remington BTs, Federal SP, Hornady Superformance BTs).

I've a new Arken EP5 on it now.

Exp271

Thanks for the replies. I managed to get out yesterday. Shot sub MOA straight away with all ammo (didn't get time to shoot the Superformace).

The Nikko Stirling was not holding zero.

Also, I put the rifle into a Hogue Stock from my 270. I noticed that the recoil lug on my 300 WM was very tight on the wooden stock. I measured the recoil lug then the glass bed for it. The recoil lug was larger by almost 20 thousands of an inch. I'll be removing the poor glass bed attempt from the stock and putting proper Acraglas down. Its a shame because I got a well known stock maker to do this and it was a very very poor job over all. In fact everything that was done by him was below amateur work imo.

I put the Muzzle brake back on and it shot sub MOA with that too. There is some difference shooting it with and without a muzzle brake.

I'd like to try those RWS 165s, I rang a shop and he wanted 87 euro for a box of them so I had to say no on this occasion.

Last thing to note for anyone who may have this problem in the future. I did notice a flinch every now and again after shooting it for a while. This lead to a "random flyer" that would "ruin" the group when in reality it was me that was ruining the group. I would recommend to use snap caps mingled with live ammo when testing for problems like this.