Australia Rejects Recognition of Aboriginals - For Shame

JupiterKid

Very sad outcome on the referendum to recognise the right of Australia’s aboriginal people - a people completely mistreated and subjugated since the prison convicts arrived on the ships from England 230 years ago. This was not a vote on giving the indigenous Australians any sort of special status, just a means to begin a healing of the historic injustices meted out to them over the decades.

Shame on you, Australia. When I was over there for a month back in 2000 I have to say I found so many Aussies to be shockingly racist and intolerant of racial minorities, with the native Aboriginals viewed by many as little better then animals. Vile attitudes coming from supposedly urbane, educated people that frankly disgusted and shocked me in how so many were in no way shy of expressing their naked racism.

My late father had even stronger views about Aussies from his visits there - uncouth, ignorant, intolerant, boorish and loud were his terms to describe them.

Anyone else disappointed - or surprised - at the referendum result where Australians do not consider their own oppressed native peoples in any way equal and deserving of being treated with dignity and respect?

For shame, Australia, for shame. 😥😡

Link:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/14/australia-rejects-proposal-to-recognise-aboriginal-people-in-constitution#:~:text=Australians%20have%20resoundingly%20rejected%20a,clear%20shortly%20after%20polls%20closed.

Threadbans

downtheroad

Fr Tod Umptious

Not a bit surprised, like yourself I spent a few months there in 2000 and found them just like you.

The indigenous people were at the very bottom of the ladder and the attitude of the whites was that it was their own fault for being there.

Jim_Hodge

I don't think Australians have ever voted in favour of any referenda.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236710#Comment_121236710

They are the Donegal of the southern hemisphere.

yagan

Not surprised, but with each census it seems more people respond about having an aussie aboriginal ancestor, so obviously a lot of DNA searches are giving people an awakening.

Jizique

At least they had a referendum, unlike here

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236736#Comment_121236736

What do you mean?

Senature

Again, having been there about 20 years ago myself, I'm not surprised, but am disappointed. They won't revisit a vote like that for decades. I find it v difficult to understand what problem people would have had with the proposal.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236736#Comment_121236736

Here we go. We had one in the 90s, the good Friday Agreement meaning that denizens of Northern Ireland can choose to be British or Irish, or both.

A British person can live in the republic without ever having to be become a citizen, unless they want to vote in Presidential and MEP elections, and in constitutional referendums.

There's no obstacle to them becoming Irish citizens once they've been proven resident for five years.

Now this thread will spin off about religious rights of protestants.

Gatling

Only something like 6 referendums out of 44 over the last 100 years have been passed

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236760#Comment_121236760

Aboriginal Australians

Irish Travellers.

Compare and contrast.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236775#Comment_121236775

If you mean in Ireland, 31 referenda received a Yes vote.

Bsharp

It was a referendum without a proper plan for implementing the yes decision. Left acres of space for the 'no' to steer up concerns and left even those interested in the idea unsure. They made a mess of it to the detriment of the aboriginals and straight islanders

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058318152/australia-rejects-recognition-of-aboriginals-for-shame

Maybe it's a similar relationship we have with our ethnic minority

Cluedo Monopoly

The Aussies are a very arrogant bunch. Not surprised. The aboriginal Australians are seen as layabout pests who love alcohol. They have been treated terribly for a long time.

growleaves

Don't know anything about this referendum or the small print so I won't comment on that but one or two points to puts things in perspective:

Aboriginals in Aus benefit from affirmative action recruiting. IOW they are given paid jobs based on their minority status.

In the Congo and other parts of Africa, the indigenous hunter-gatherer remnants like Pygmy tribes are still displaced, murdered and persecuted - as in, this is happening right now. Some countries, like Uganda, were only settled by Bantu-speaking agricultural peoples as late as the 17th century. So these indigenous Africans peoples are an almost exact parallel with Aborigines and American Indians except they have it much, much worse.

Indigenous Christian communities in the Middle East like Assyrians and Copts are still persecuted. They are almost wiped out in some places.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236815#Comment_121236815

Australia

People are shockingly racist there. Very surprising considering they are immigrants themselves and I don't think a lot of them realise that. You have lads going around with Irish/UK surnames racially abusing people from Ireland and the UK calling them POMs sir Paddy's. **** jokers.

Aboriginal people are the real Australians.

bucketybuck

I know the OP was there for a few weeks 20 years ago and so is the expert in all of this, but looking at the details I can sort of understand why so many Australians didn't buy into the referendum.

You will hear this from a lot of commentators but its absolutely true, the wording of that referendum created a division between the different ethnic groups in Australia. It formally grouped the aboriginals as a separate part of the population.

It was no longer all Australians, it made things "them and us", and when the hell has that ever worked?

It may have meant well but it was a balls of a referendum, and thats my opinion no matter how many smug Irish middle aged men think that makes me a racist.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236837#Comment_121236837

I didn't want to go near the traveller thing, but the parallels with what Enda Kenny did are quite apt.

He created a them and us scenario and how did that work out? Is anybody happy about it still?

You recognise and respect peoples ethnicities, but ffs you don't treat them differently to anybody else. That way leads to nothing but trouble.

magicbastarder

FWIW the wording being voted on was

“Chapter IX Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples

129 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice

In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia:

there shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice;

the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;

the Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.”

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236889#Comment_121236889

How the flip did Enda Kenny create an us and them re travelers?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236932#Comment_121236932

He designated them as a different ethnicity?

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236943#Comment_121236943

There was a them and us sentimate long before Enda Kenny was even born.

cj maxx

I’ve never been Australia and only met a few in NYC. Unlikable people . One , a naturalised Aussie , though originally born wexford , used to lament that up until the ’60’s it was legal to shoot an ‘Abo’ on your land . True or not I don’t know but disgraceful all the same .

Never legal but ignored

https://homework.study.com/explanation/when-was-it-legal-to-shoot-aborigines.html

Varik

"If you don't know vote No" Probably the best slogan you can have for a referendum, but that get's written off as "project fear" by any yes campaigners doesn't matter if it's for this or Brexit or the repeated EU ref.

Seen some of the Yes supporters trying to argue against peoples reason for voting No, such as not know the details that would be legislated after the vote. No voters saying they didn't want to give the government a blank cheque or take "trust us" as an answer, with Yes campaigners saying they've already have that but if so what's the point of the referendum.

Beasty

downtheroad threadbanned

Luxembourgo

If you don't know vote no....

I'd have voted no personally on the small bit I read about it.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121237004#Comment_121237004

You met one bloke from a different era and formed an opinion?

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236871#Comment_121236871

If you own the land you're not an immigrant

Augme

Given the way many Irish people speak about travellers I don't know if we are in much of a position to critics how Austrailiana treat their indigenous people. If Enda made granting travellers ethnic minority status to a referendum it never would have passed.

Augme

Given the way many Irish people speak about travellers I don't know if we are in much of a position to critics how Austrailiana treat their indigenous people. If Enda made granting travellers ethnic minority status to a referendum it never would have passed.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236874#Comment_121236874

Ironically that division already existed in the census question when I lived there.

I think questions broke down something like this:

A. Are you Australian

B. Are you Aboriginal.

I found this a very divisive existing paradigm. The wording of the question in this referendum didn't really have anything in it that was socially divisive for Australia, both the transplanted and native.

It is bizarre to think that aboriginal people of Australia were only allowed the right vote in the late 1960s because civilised whitey voted to let them have that right. Later referendums raised concerns that native title meant people losing their gardens etc...

Anyway, here's a link with whitey the squatter complaining about the natives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGtEacNDXmw&ab_channel=WelcometoCountry

Planters going plant.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236804#Comment_121236804

So compare apples and oranges then.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121237120#Comment_121237120

And several to New York from my generation. Generally they weren’t nice people , very quick to form opinions on people , especially non Caucasian people . Just my experience though

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236916#Comment_121236916

That last line is an extremely broad and open loose end, I have no surprise that there would be a default position against.

I seem to recall Ireland had a campaign during Lisbon of "If not sure, vote no" which is a pretty reasonable default.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121237132#Comment_121237132

Myself and other Irish discussed this comparison when we were living out in Oz and there's a gulf of a difference. Irish travelers are distinct from European gypsies, a distinction traveler advocacy groups make too. So even on an ethnic level they see themselves as Irish, whereas white Australia see themselves as distinct from native australians.

While we might grumble about traveler behaviour we understand that they are part of our history, whereas many non native Australians see the native as subhuman.

Before federation the native australian was actually more equal in being a royal subject, upon federation they are classed and managed under the department of flora and fauna. They were abused, mistreated and murdered when they resisted forced resettlement off their traditional habitat. I met one aboriginal elder who saw his grandfather being shot dead by a farmer in the 1960s and there was no consequences.

I think a more true comparison is our present is how Israel systemically brutalised Palestinians over decades and then when Palestinians repay that brutality they are demonised as animals. Australians actually had what were effectively rape camps where the black would be bred out of the native.

AMKC

Does not surprise me one bit but sad to see. Australians have always been a bit slow and backwards. I was there at the beginning of the last decade for a month. Could not believe how few houses had solar panels for instance in a country and a continent that gets sun constantly. I am sure that has changed a bit now. The people were mostly friendly do. Still I was not there tgat long so am sure there was plenty of racist Aussies too. Not long since us Irish were like that and sadly some still are stuck in the 18th century. To me a person is a person no matter your religion or race or anything else as long as you do not try and force it on me.

Fr Tod Umptious

...

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121237301#Comment_121237301

Then say that he formalised it then, whatever words make you happy, it won't change the underlying point.

sligeach

Is anyone surprised? Look at the Australian flag, look at their printed money as 2 examples of how they still show deference to an outdated, privileged racist institution that subjugated the Aboriginal people in the first place.

Polar101

Like many here, I've been to Australia once, so that makes me a subject matter expert. It's not a surprising result, but it's difficult to understand - what harm would there have been in recognition?

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121237365#Comment_121237365

The thing that I found most comical about white Australian society was how much they were in denial about how dependent they were on China buying commodities from lands stolen from native australians. I heard it a good few times that Australia didn't go into recession after 08 because of their superior management culture, with no mention of the massive Chinese capital spending spree that attracted so many of us over there.

Also I really got sick of being referred to as an expat while Asian colleagues on the same pay and visa were called immigrants, and worse. I'd get invited to Bbq's, they wouldn't.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236736#Comment_121236736

+1.

Disgraceful how our "natives" were granted ethnic minority status.

rogber

Racists and dumb people, no surprise

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236804#Comment_121236804

Irish travellers are not a different race

Dave_D_Rave

Can say as a citizen of Australia that's lived there for 10 years that this was the correct outcome and delighted it got shot down

The Yes agenda was half baked at best by the Yes vote and Albo.

Yes the Aboriginals were treated very bad by generations passed but some proposals to rectify some of this were just as wrong and unjust to newer generations which would of in effect punished newer generations for issues of the past.

In essence two wrongs don't make a right.

There is lots of ways to help the Aboriginal people going forward and to be fair there is a lot of schemes and policies in place for this.

First mistake in all of this stuff is separation

By all means let try and right the wrongs of previous generations but let's not do it in such a way that we are going to repeat the mistakes albeit on the other side

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121237720#Comment_121237720

Were you there during the famous "intervention" that turned out to be based on a lie?

There may be improved rights but the only consequence was for the aboriginal communities that were targeted. As recent an incidence like that like makes me believe that human respect for aboriginal peoples is only ever lip service.

FernandoTorres

Have to laugh at all the comments calling Aussies racist, slow, dumb etc on the basis of their week long holidays or meeting an Aussie in a pub once. Might be missing some irony when you label an entire people as racist. Although I would have liked to see this passed, it's a hell of a lot more complicated than people are making out and wasn't about just recognising the indigenous people.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121237746#Comment_121237746

The Australian political centre is significantly more to the right than here. This makes everything seem very conservative at best or racist at worst from our viewpoint.

Anyway from a cursory look at the proposal it's completely unsurprising that it failed. The amendment was completely half baked with an open ended and poorly defined legislative outcome. That and a population not willing to take the blame for the sins of their predecessors meant it unlikely to pass.

We could take a leaf out of their book tbh.

Dave_D_Rave

I wasn't in the NT but I have been to remote Aboriginal communities in outback WA for extended periods.

I can tell you from first hand experience if you got on plane and ended up in those places your outlook might be a lot different.

I do feel for the Aboriginal people what happened them was clearly wrong but trust me there is elements to there society that are also wrong.

Just speaking from my own experiences over there.