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Even our business lobby group wants higher taxes and bigger State.

  • 19-09-2023 10:08am
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭

    I think Danny McCoy should step down over this. The country has enough left wing and hard left pro public sector & public spending advocates without the head of the business lobby joining in!

    How about instead of raising taxes, we instead cut the 6bn a year we give to NGO's and abolish the USC with the proceeds? Might throw a few young enviornmental lobbyists out of a job, but I'm sure they'll cope.

    Or instead, why don't we freeze public sector pay for next 5 years, and cut taxes each year with the proceeds?

    Just a few actual pro-business ideas off the top of my head...pity the actual business lobby is not as creative as I am.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,332 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus

    Not as creative, perhaps, but a good deal more realistic.

  • Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton

    Nothing realistic about a business lobby advocating to raise taxes in a country with a 52% marginal tax rate.

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,397 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson

    Its a minor improvement on shutting down the HSE idea tbf.

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,332 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus

    Sure there is. Did you not read the article that you linked to? He wants taxes to fund "the public system of administration required by the business community".

    Why are you ignoring the needs of the business community, Fred? Why do you hate business so much?

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    The USC, like the property tax, is one of the fairest taxes we have. The more you make, the greater the % you pay, the less you make, the less % you pay, with 4 income bands as opposed to the 2 band income tax which doubles once you go above the threshold

    The smarter choice would be to abolish income tax, and expand USC to replace it and add a few more bands to it while doing it.

    Something like this, current on the left, proposed on the right

    Note, the figures are just for demonstration purposes, not what I advocate for, just needed to put something to flesh out the idea

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭downtheroad

    Stop talking sense man!

    Those 3 letters, usc, drive people mad. Many forget the health and income levies that preceeded usc.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,106 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder

    why don't we freeze public sector pay for next 5 years

    one example; dublin city council are operating at below 90% of their nominal headcount, partly because they cannot compete with private sector wages in many areas. and quite often, the deficit is felt in infrastrucutural areas because an engineer working for the council would earn more in the private sector.

    but what happens then is the likes of DCC underperforms due to low staff, and people clamour for them to be gutted because they cannot deliver.

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,332 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus

    There's a very simplistic right-wing trope in which all taxes are bad, all government expenditure is bad, any increase in either is bad, and any reduction in either is good. People who hold to this view also often hold the view that there are no right-wing parties in Ireland because, they believe, the embrace of this view is the irreducible minimum requirement for being considered even modestly right of centre. They tend to be fans of Liz Truss (or, in the UK, they may actually be Liz Truss).

    As HL Mencken said, for every complex problem there is a solution which is clear, simple and wrong. This trope represents the application of that principle to contemporary politics.

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    Oh and as for stopping funding to NGO's, you would collapse the health system if you did so

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,332 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus

    I think the OP is fine with that; he wants to collapse the health system anyway.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭Jack Daw

    They should just get rid of USC and then in it's place announce a new Temporary Refund Adjustment.People would be able to get on board with that.

  • Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78

    ....really, so you want our public services to effectively collapse, so lets guess, so the market can take over, and do a far better job! do realise that whole trickle down thing was just a load of bollcoks, yea!

    ...and you d be wondering why temple street is where it is, austerity folks, it really really really doesnt work!

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    Ah I didn't make the connection, but you're right

  • Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567

    It is becoming not that unusual to find historically fiscally conservative voices wanting to see an increased level of public intervention. Many Tories in the UK as an example, alongside Labour voters, wanting to see more public investment in transport, as such an increase will ultimately help businesses and therefore the wider economy, never mind having the train not just being on time, but actually turning up in the first place. I'm sure many irish voices would be of the same view.

    This is healthy in my opinion. It's not really a 'left wing thing' at all. Entirely sensible, and what the State should be for.

  • Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78

    yup, well documented globally, that conservative quarters know its critical to have a well functioning and resourced state in order for businesses to function properly, state protectionism is critical for this to happen....

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭downtheroad

    Someone earning €50,000 in Ireland in 2023 pays €1,497 of USC but €8,450 in income tax (as well as €2,000 PRSI).

    USC is the lowest of the 3, but the most hated. I'd personally much rather see increases to tax credits and tax bands, it puts far more money back in your pocket.

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,817 ✭✭✭✭Furze99

    Did I also just hear on RTE radio, some fella from ICTU deriding the proposed measly tax cuts as he put it and proposing that the public would prefer more nurses, gardaí and assistants in schools??

    The business lobbyists and unions are in step for once!

  • Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton

    haha...I'm sure the business commmunity wants some of those lucrative public sector contracts, no doubt.

    However I sincerely doubt the business community wants higher taxes. Point me to polling data that shows otherwise. I'm pretty sure they've been advocating for a long time for lower marginal income taxes.