Dehumidifier Vs. Stone Cottage?

Stigura

Would it dry the structure out till the mortar crumbled and the place fell down? Or, would the 'Breathable' walls allow it to try to suck all of Ireland dry? What?

Thanks.

10-10-20

Hi Stigura,

There are effectively two types of electrical dehumidifier - compressed gas types ("fridge cycle") or rotating desiccant-drum types. Each has it's niche.

A compressed gas one is less effective in colder temperatures as the gas cycle becomes inefficient, so you end up putting in more energy for less water collection. On average they run at about ~200w when operational and should only use around a 1kWh to 2 kWh per day.

The rotating desiccant-drum type is different as it uses a segmented container of drying material to adsorb moisture from the air and then cycle that drying material into a condensing chamber using warm air to take out the moisture. They are more efficient per liter of water collected, but consume around 500 to 600w when running, and can run into 3kWh or more a day.

Both types can be controlled to reduce the RH (relative humidity) to a pre-set level (typically 40%, 50%, 60%... 70% RH), so in that way you can avoid over-drying the mortar or building fabric by keeping the dehumidifier running at a comfortable RH such as 55%.

All dehumidifiers then have a condensate collection chamber where you can pull the water out from, or many can be plumbed to drain into a sink, etc. I got a rotating desiccant-drum type (Meaco DD8L Junior) recently and I'm happy with it.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312702/dehumidifier-vs-stone-cottage

Depends how much ventilation you have I guess. If there's lots of airflow, with fresh air coming in (desirable), you'll be dehumidifying this as well.

I've seen a FB group that deals with restoring old Irish cottages etc Might be worth looking up.

Stigura

Thanks, guys.

Furze; Thanks for opening yet another 'Pandoras bloody rabbit hole' for me! LMAO! I'd literally spent about four or five complete days and nights, chasing my tail over these DH things. Now, ye've awakened my awareness that I can actually Search on restoring old Irish cottages ....?!

Would ye believe, that Genuinely never even crossed my mind before?! Seriously. I guess it must reflect on how my mind compartmentalises things? I guess I more chip away at one thing at a time. Rather than try to grasp the whole. That's probably why, almost two decades in, I've finally got round to This problem. I prefer to sort one thing at a time.

But, yeah. I hit DDG with it. Ooh! Bet that'll make some good reading, when my head's clear of all this and I can sit and enjoy a good read again.

Regards the air flow? This seems to be one of the absolute riddles of the whole thing around these damn things, doesn't it? It's like a chess game with a bloody machine!

10-10-20

That would be the one I remembered ending up wondering if I'd dreamed about! The one that would 'sample the air'. Only, please indulge me for a minute here: Power bills. Nuff said! Desiccant models work in the cold. But, the cost, in juice, can be vile. Condensers are cheaper to run. But, as so many years of making dead fridges Finally made me realise? They die in the cold!

So, given my very particular set of criteria and desired aim points? I've decided to try an " Inkbird ITC-308-WIFI Thermostat Temperature Controller with IHC-200-WIFI Humidity Controller Hygrostat " 😎

My cunning plan is to stick that Bad Boy to a Condenser, in my cold little space. But, Then, throw in a dinky little Heater! Idea being, Inky Poo there takes over control of Everything. Conducting the two in harmony. So, I get to sit here, staring at my phone, like a lemon, as the Humidity and Temp's remain perfect. Hopefully, at minimal cost at the meter too!

That's my plan, anyway. Be interesting to compare notes, along the line?

One other thing my tireless research into the machines has thrown up is their noted tendency to last a year or two? Seems it's almost an accepted given with them? People talk about getting extended warranties, as that works out cheaper than the virtual 'Guarantee' that ye'll need a replacement machine anyway. Bit harsh, isn't it?

Thing is; They're not exactly like light bulbs, are they? 'Oh. I'll buy two or three then. Have a reserve, for when this one inevitably goes pop in the middle of a Saturday night.'

Last thing? It's Really annoying me, here! I researched the hell out of Desiccant DH's. Pretty much got it down to " EcoAir " (Or something like that) and " Meaco ". Then, I dug and dug and dug. Really got right into every single one of them. Kept notes, scribbled on my pad. Just looking at them.

All the Eco ones went out the window. Combination of both outrageous Wattages and, often as not, their overly simplified 'Hi / Low' style settings. (I want precision).

Meaco? I appear to have got it narrowed down to just Three models. Here's what my notes say:

DD8 Z. 650. 200.

DD8L. 650. 250. SF.

DD8L Junior. 165. 250. SF.

What the Hell was I on about?! What could " SF " have mean't to me???

10-10-20

My little compressor one failed after 3 years, it wouldn't start. I traced it back to the caps in the control board, they were dead. Got a few similar good quality replacements from Radionics and it's now still working perfectly 12 years later (got it in 2008).

Stigura

😲 Bloody Hell!!! So; Potentially, Comp' models are much like the fridges of my younger (warmer?) days ~ They just keep chugging along?

Seriously, in This place? I was getting through a fridge a Year! Buying new fridges, hand over fist. Took me donkeys to finally find out that the Cold kills them.

Finally got That sussed. Then, I realised how much juice They take! F**k That, for defrosting my Dog meat and a small tub of Flora!!!

Now, my brand new fridge is sat in a store room, where they can find it when they find me, rotting away. I defrost my Dogs mean in a room. Under a fly cover. And I just don't eat margarine any more!

On that scale then? Christ knows what a Desiccant machine would do to my electric bill!!! Whoah! Dodged a bullet there!

DC999

I recommend the one we have years at this stage. Meaco 12l low energy dehumidifier. Uses a low constant 165w only.

And can very slowly heat a small room. I use it to heat the wfh office in autumn and early spring.

It struggles when the room is cold as you mention so I don't leave it on at night when temp drops. Problem sorted.

Stigura

" It struggles when the room is cold, so I don't leave it on at night when temp drops. Problem sorted. "

But, then ~ in my case ~ the humidity would soar through the night. Somewhat nullifying the purpose of its earlier use.

Granted, the nearest I've yet come is the idea of providing some, small, heater. Not so much a balancing trick as simply adding to the load (on the meter)

I'm also now the well happy owner of the Inkbird RH / Temp meters. Wonder how they'd effect all this?

Finally, there's 'The Dream Crusher ', or what ever his Amazon UK handle is. Saying:

" Don't be fooled by low energy, i got this to replace an old Blyss dehumidifier which consumed around 350 - 400 wats of electric, seeing this only using 255 wats thinking great ideal replacement will save some energy cost, now i will tell you how the machines both work differently & how that affects things. The old machine i had would run with pump going till it got humidity to target then it would switch into fan only mode keeping the fan running & keeping the air flowing until the humidity got high enough to activate the pump again, now what this new machine from Meaco does is runs the pump till it eventually gets to target humidity level & then after about 5-10 mins the fan & everything shuts down for 30 minutes & then comes back on & if after this time it detects humidity above target level ( which it always does ) the pump starts running again for at least another 30 mins to an hour maybe more depending how high the humidity has gone up & the reason it does this is because due to the full machine fan & everything shutting down for 30 mins it's not keeping the air flowing around the machine & this allows humidity on the machines sensor to build up higher than the target level & always takes a good 30 minutes or more of the machine running with pump going to settle again so if you the take into account that the old machine would run maybe 7 hours/day in pumping mode & run most of the rest of the day in fan only mode (fan only mode only used about 30 watts ) compared to this machine will run about 7 hours in pumping mode when humidity is high & then will also spend the rest of the day keep running pump & everything for at least 30-60 minutes every day meaning this machine is ending up running for a minimum of 12-14 hours in full power mode consuming 255 watts for that time meaning that if i kept this machine running 24 hours like I did with the old machine that this machine would actually end up using a lot more energy/24 hours than the old machine. "

Yeah. Just checked. " Mr D Johnson " Dream Crusher Johnson, see? He even goes on to say how he's now adopted your own trick, of turning it off half the time.

Could my cunning plan of the heater and the inkbird gear wangle a way round this? I dunno! Or, could it screw with the Meaco's circuitry? Could I even do better just to look at lower priced machines, running at the statutory c.350W - maybe with 'improved' features, like a Draining tank, or even just a bigger one?

Dunno, see? Probably why I'm still stuck in this rut of fear and indecision 😶

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121160377#Comment_121160377

My Meaco turns off when it reaches the target humidity you set. And on that modeit comes on every so often and turns off if humidity is lower.

Or it turns off after a timer of X hours which you set. Or has the option to leave it on running constantly. Uses a constant 165w when running.

Stigura

" running constantly. Uses a constant 165w when running. "

" full power mode consuming 255 watts "

😐️ So, there's that. Of course, if I had a basic grasp of all this stuff? I wouldn't be here, trying to get it thrashed out, would I?

I can only remind that my unit would probably have to run at full, for ever. Because, I seem to live in a cold sauna. If such a thing can exist. Which it appears to do. Because I'm living in one.

Tesco driver turned up, yesterday. This is no word of a lie. Truck came down the track. I went out to the gate. Guy jumped down from the cab. Walked down the length of the truck. Looked left and right. Looked at me and said;

" Christ! It must be Hard Humidity, here?! " 😲

Don't ask me! But, yeah. Guy nodded at the meadows and the ground. Could, apparently, tell at a glance: Humidity Zone.

Anyway, yeah. That's where I'm living. And it's cold too. My mind finds it hard to equate Cold with Humidity. My level of understanding in all this is That low. S'why I'm asking.

New water heater arrived, this morning. More confusion and mental turmoil to the mix. What if I add this to an active tank? That tank's on an Inkbird Thermostat. Guess this one will over ride the heater in there? *Right There!* Mind tried to grapple with the concept of dualling thermostats? Too much. Shuts down.

I'm no good at all, with this ****. That's why I read and ask so much. Trying to get a basic grip on it all. Brutally costly thing to the old, 'Suck it and see' method.

L1011

I have one running constantly in the 50s single skin block extension of a ~1830s stone cottage since December 2021. I think its set to 40% RH but it never, ever gets there (I can see from the smart meter that it doesn't cut off)

The only negative impact it has had so far (well, excluding to my wallet based from the electricity bills) is causing the sea salt to effloresce out of the beach sand that was used in making cement for a few bodge jobs repairs over the years. The internal humidity is still high enough that I'd not be worried about any impact to the lime mortar

Stigura

" The only negative impact it has had so far ... well, excluding to my wallet based from the electricity bills ..."

That, unfortunately, is my biggest horror! See? That, and the stated fact that Your bugger isn't even proving fit for purpose 🙁 Wonder what we'd find, if I dropped round with my Inkbird Hygrometer? If it's 'Not reaching 40% ~ because it's set at that and never reaches it.'; What Is it reaching? 45? 50? 60?!

And, which model are ye using There, please? Just to empty Another sack of puzzles and contradictions to the mix.

Thanks.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163357#Comment_121163357

165w is 0.165 of a kW (kilowatt). So running it for 24 hours uses 4kWh or 4 units of electricity. If you are paying 40c a kWh, that's €1.58 a day. Check your bill for the rate you pay for 1kWh

Or €50 a month. Which is a lot.

If you don't have one now, I can't imagine to need one to run 24 x 7. Say you ran it for 6 hours a day, it's 1/4 of the figures above. So €12.50 a month.

coffee to go

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163386#Comment_121163386

Sounds exactly like our cottage. 50s extensions really are the worst 😬

10-10-20

In an older house there's little point it trying to get below 60% RH anyway Stigura, it's not worth the effort for the gain. Keeping it around 65% will probably be a significant benefit anyway. Or even run it on a timer and switch it on for an hour at a time every 2hrs, see how it goes. I know mine stays running for quite a portion of the day even at the 65% mark, it's just a sign of moisture intrusion through the voids.

Stigura

*Had to* just pop back in here, lads, to say I'm still around and still checking anything else posted here. I've just had / got too many bloody irons in the fire and am struggling to take much in.

Heh! I was about to say, " My mind's spinning. " That flashed back to how my Sensei ~ in a past life ~ used an example of hitting a spinning ball, with a stick? Stick deflects, doesn't it? Interesting. My mind's spinning and it's Deflecting much of the information coming at it. Cool 🙂

Anyway, yeah. My quest continues. Far and wide. I'm keeping jotted down notes as I snatch at fragments. I just let the Dogs out and had a Eureka instance! My kitchen ~ right now ~ is absolutely bloody Freezing! I happen to have one of my meters out there, just because. And, as my bones almost broke with the cold, I noticed that it was 55F and 75%RH! That's Incredibly low RH, for this place. Probably my lowest since I got any RH meters to tell me what's what.

So, having gratefully dashed back in Here ~ with the tanks full of heated water, and a mass of Dogs bodies, generating comfort ~ I've switched on my best meter and I see it's 66F and 83RH.

TIL: Cold air lowers RH?! Brilliant! It's still, yet, a bit nebulous ~ how I can utilise this new found understanding. But, it's a basic corner stone, isn't it? I mean; I now know One thing more, about RH, than the naff all I knew this afternoon 🙂

Oh, and, I also got a tickle, tonight, that 'switching it on and off is a pretty fair way of blowing up a Compressor based Dehu! That's a bummer. Because I was wondering about getting one of Those, and keeping it going by keeping it in a Warm space, see? Ye know how ~ just like fridges ~ they like to be warm?

Anyway, I'm stopping there. Mind's starting to rev up again. All these thoughts and snippets of half grasped information are flooding back. Netflix!