FRA vs NZ - Match d'ouverture de la coupe du monde de rugby 2023

swiwi_

...before reading further, first test your knowledge with this wee (or should that be petit) quiz - how many times previously have "Le XV de France" and the "All Blacks" faced off in a RWC: 4 vs 5 vs 6 ?

Date & Venue : Friday, September 8 at Stade de France, Saint-Denis

Kick-off: 21:15 local (20:15 BST, 19:15 GMT)

Referees: Jaco Peyper (South Africa), Karl Dickson (England) & Christophe Ridley (England), Tom Foley (England)

FRANCE: 15 Thomas Ramos, 14 Damian Penaud, 13 Gael Fickou, 12 Yoram Moefana, 11 Gabin Villiere, 10 Matthieu Jalibert, 9 Antoine Dupont (c), 8 Gregory Alldritt, 7 Charles Ollivon, 6 Francois Cros, 5 Thibaud Flament, 4 Cameron Woki, 3 Uini Atonio, 2 Julien Marchand, 1 Reda Wardi

Replacements: 16 Peato Mauvaka, 17 Jean-Baptiste Gros, 18 Dorian Aldegheri, 19 Romain Taofifenua, 20 Paul Boudehent, 21 Maxime Lucu 22 Arthur Vincent, 23 Melvyn Jaminet

NEW ZEALAND: 15 Beauden Barrett, 14 Will Jordan, 13 Rieko Ioane, 12 Anton Lienert-Brown, 11 Mark Telea, 10 Richie Mo’unga, 9 Aaron Smith, 8 Ardie Savea, 7 Sam Cane, 6 Dalton Papali’i, 5 Scott Barrett, 4 Sam Whitelock, 3 Nepo Laulala, 2 Codie Taylor, 1 Ethan de Groot

Replacements: 16 Samisoni Taukei’aho, 17 Ofa Tu’ungafasi, 18 Fletcher Newell, 19 Tupou Vaa’i, 20 Luke Jacobson 21 Finlay Christie, 22 David Havili, 23 Leicester Fainga’nuku

Here we go folk, the 10th edition of the RWC kicks off with one of the classic rivalries that has given us a number of memorable matches in previous editions. Rugby has changed quite bit since 1987. This was the year I first started watching rugby. Back then, kickers used sand, you had to have both feet on the ground to take a mark, actual rucking was standard, players were only replaced for injury, there was no "use it or lose it" for a maul and so on.

France will be looking to win a first ever trophy after reaching the final in 1987, 1999 and 2011. They made a hash of last hosting in 2007, losing their opening match to Argentina and thus playing their "home" ¼ final in Cardiff. From memory they won that game...before being bundled out by England in an insipid display with Damien Traille gifting England a try early on. After a number of woeful coaches, of which IMO St André was the worst, they finally have a decent coaching stuff and have been planning for this tournament ever since 2019. They have a strong pack, a solid set piece, cohesive loose forwards, world class pivots, solid centres, flashy wings, and reliable goalkicking fullbacks. The main Q will be whether they can handle the pressure.

NZ have generally been pretty terrible under Ian Foster with a number of firsts, including a first home series loss to Ireland. About the only thing he hasn't done is lose at Eden Park. Things looked to be somewhat back on track this year until getting absolutely smashed off the park by South Africa. Why on earth you'd chose the Springboks for a warmup game only Foster knows, aside from the risk of injury and defeat they are also a potential ¼ final opponent for NZ. NZ on their day can beat anyone, but this is one of the weakest AB squads ever. How many players make a World XV? Maybe Ardie Savea and Will Jordan? This game should give a decent idea of NZ's chances, even though this game isn't so important given that Pool B doesn't contain a "tough side" and more of an "easy beat" when it comes to the ¼ finals. Confidence is probably the main reward for winning the game, and either side will hope not to ship injuries.

Both squads have suffered major injuries: France without their first choice loosehead, lock, flyhalf and inside centre. NZ without their first choice tighthead, lock, blindside flanker and inside centre. NZ selectors choose a weird squad balance with 5 outside backs, not counting Beauden Barrett, Damien McKenzie, Rieko Ioane, Jodie Barrett and at a pinch David Havili who can all play in the back 3. As it is, Beauden Barrett plays 15 despite being listed as a 10. As a result, the squad is a bit light on locks and loose forwards, especially at 6, where Frizzell is out, and Papali'i is in.

I expect this game to be high intensity, fast-paced and very enjoyable to watch. As stated above, neither side needs to win, but both sides will very much want to win. NZ because they want to get back on track and France because a loss would immediately put their credentials in doubt. France will play territory and NZ will play more possession IMO, although NZ has a tendency to employ stupid kicks under Foster.

I genuinely think this game is quite hard to pick. The only result I don't see is NZ winning at a canter. Before giving my prediction, here is a look at the 6 previous games between these sides

1987: NZ win the final 29-9 - note NZ's first points come from a DG from a free kick - that is not allowed under current laws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG3hcrl_bu4

1999: France 43 vs NZ 31. One of the great matches of all time. I had Uni exams at the time, and couldn't stay up in the wee hours of the morning to watch. Radio-alarm woke me with mournful organ music. Current French coach played this game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TakuB1wDuFw

2003: NZ 40 vs Fra 13 (3rd/4th play-off)

2007: France 20 vs NZ 18: Grey All Blacks shirts went the way of Hawaiian Shirts in the fashion stakes. You wouldn't be seen dead wearing one after this. The start of the forward pass vs momentum debate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEYj3o3-j9E

2011: NZ 37 vs Fra 17 (pool), NZ 8 vs Fra 7 (final) - here is an alternate video you might not have seen

https://vimeo.com/31010288

So onto that prediction. Well, as you all know, I am Swiss. We are neutral. So Fra 23 🇲🇫 vs NZ 23 🇳🇿. Handshakes all round and a few chilled Kronenbourg 1664 in the sheds under the stands. All Blacks strumming their guitars while the French players sing Gainsbourg (Serge not Charlotte).

Enjoy the World Cup everyone, best of luck to the Irish 🇮🇪 (do the Irish need luck?), and Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦

kuang1

Nice standard set there swiwi!

A draw! That would make both teams take the rest of the group games a bit more seriously as points difference kicks in I think?

I'm gonna say 29-25 to the French!

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312587/fra-vs-nz-match-douverture-de-la-coupe-du-monde-de-rugby-2023

Excellent post to kick things off, but just to mention the 2015 62-13 defeat of France by NZ. I couldn’t quite say I “remember” in it’s entirety, but I was lucky enough to have a seat in the front row. With Gregan and Clive Woodward pitch side in front of us.

swiwi_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078222#Comment_121078222

Ouch. I had completely forgotten. And to think I was at that match! To bury the ghosts of Cardiff 2007.

So 7 times…

NB: if Foster wants yet another unwelcome record he can become the first NZ coach to lose a pool game.

RunningFlyer

Great preview, thanks.

Can’t wait for this… certainly the most mouthwatering opening fixture of a World Cup I can remember.

I reckon the French will do the job by 5pts.

billyhead

Should be a belter. Can't wait. New Zealand by 3.

Dubinusa

Allen 🇫🇷

Paul Smeenus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078431#Comment_121078431

Think you're about right, to ne honest. Jalibert is no slouch, but missing Ntamack, Danty and Williemse... that's a big loss.

Don't think France will fear us or SA, though.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078718#Comment_121078718

I think France will fear us tbh. We absolutely shredded them this year, and only lost by 6 in Paris without Sexton. No team has exposed their defensive system more than us since Edwards came in.

NZ by 2 scores

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078819#Comment_121078819

we have to get there first. France by +10 at least.

Vinnie222

France by 7 plus. New Zealand lack of leadership and power is going to kill them

sydthebeat

nice start swiwi !

i honestly have no idea how this game could go.

i can see scenarios where it will be a draw / one score game in a low scoring slogfest

i can also see scenarios where it will a high scoring free for all where either team win by 10+

There is so much quality on the field, yet there is so much quality missing as well. Any game that has the likes of Retallick, Danty, Frizzell, Ntamack, Lomax, Williamse, Jordie Barrett, Emoni Narawa, Baille, Reece, Jelonch and Perenara all missing through injury will be a poorer game for it.

Will france buckle under the pressure? its a very young team, and one very, very dependent on Dupont to pull the strings. Stop Dupont and you stop france?

where exactly are NZ in their resurgence? their results over the last few years would suggest they struggle for form outside of New Zealand. They are RWC beasts but 17 of their travelling squad have never played in a RWC previously. Of the starting 15 tomorrow only 4 are RWC debutants (de groot, papali'i, telea and Jordan. However off the bench only Ofa Tuungafasi has previous experience, and that may be a telling point if its a close game in the last 15 mins.

im going to throw my hat on a "coming from behind one point win for France"

Great post swiwi_ - good on you for putting the rest of the threadbearers on notice!

I've talked myself into believing that New Zealand are going to turnover France in this one. France are going to be all energy and no composure at kick off and the AB's are going to sucker punch them a couple of times in the first half (3 tries to 0 at HT).

France will come out the second half full of piss and vinegar, have a load of possession, force it and cough up an intercept - ending the fixture as a contest.

Heard it here first folks. And if I'm wrong, I'll admit that Former Former Former knows nothing about rugby and should come back to the forum!

littlevillage

It probably sounds simplistic but France need to win this game more than NZ, for that reason I think they will.

There's pressure on the hosts to start the tournament well (they are favourites) and there's rumblings of racism in the camp and they have a couple of injuries.... They will want to unify the team, get the French public behind them...and build momentum.

France by more than 7 pts.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079708#Comment_121079708

I suppose anything is possible, France could do a France on it and **** the bed.

I would think that NZ do not have the pack or bench to win this?

For me Laulala could be in for a very long day,Papali’i for sure will speed things up but i cant see them getting the better of the French backrow.

No Jordie Barrett and ALB isn't the player he was 4 years ago.

I'm still going with France by 10+, with Penaud grabbing two.

swiwi_

Ha ha. My French colleague just gifted me a French rugby jersey ... :). Won't be wearing it tomorrow but he can count on my support if it's France vs SA in a 1/4 final.

ionadnapokot

Lovely 'overture' siwi

Something special about France v NZ games. Great way to start the tournament.

1999 is prob my favorite RWC game. So sad that Lomu and Dominici have since passed away. Iconic moments from them in a magical match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP-x61zLq8k

Hoping for another classic. I'm expecting France to overwhelm NZ in the opening 20mins. Maybe its NZ's turn to stage an epic comeback!

AbusesToilets

One of my favorite parts of that 99 game was a light hearted analysis piece that absolutely eviscerated Umaga. It went through almost every try iirc and showed how he was at fault.

pickarooney

I still cannot believe I went shopping at half-time in that match

swiwi_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081107#Comment_121081107

Even sadder is that Dominici took his own life. That NZ team had class backs but made the mistake of trying to fit everyone in: Cullen at 13, Wilson at 15 and lomu and umaga on the wings. Should have been Cullen at 15, Wilson at 14 and umaga at 13. But in those days tana was still a winger. France were fairly hopeless in the final but played an inspired 2nd 40 vs NZ.

Yeah_Right

@swiwi_ Great post. Fantastic start to RWC 2023. I was worried that you were going to write the entire thing in French. You have set the standard for all the match threads to come. I'm looking at you @[Deleted User]

My first response to your quiz question was 6 because I had completely forgotten about the 2003 3rd/4th playoff. Can't believe you didn't have a video up for the 2015 game!! Thats one of my favourite ABs matches because of the quality and the ruthlessness they showed. After that match I had no doubts the world cup was in the bag.

The 1987 was the first ever ABs match I attended. My dad and I were in the corner where Kirk and JK scored their tries. Still have the ticket stub back home.

I think France wins this by more than 1 score unfortunately. But I'm excited any way!! Come on the All Blacks! Kia Kaha!

kuang1

Only 6 hours exactly to the Haka!

TheRona

Today is seriously dragging. Can't wait for tonight. Would love to see the All Black's play well, but wouldn't begrudge France a win. It's nice to be going into it knowing I can just sit back and enjoy without the pressure of it being a knockout.

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121085268#Comment_121085268

New to rugby as the teams line up : 'Will they start playing now ?"

Experienced fan : "Soon, but first there will be 2 songs and a dance"

fitz

This opening ceremony is unfathomably bad.

Dillonb3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086670#Comment_121086670

Lets get every French stereotype and make a show about it

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086670#Comment_121086670

That's being extremely kind. Luckily there's a match to come.

el Fenomeno

20230908_191452.jpg

Super Hans making an appearance

PTH2009

Christ get on with the match

I'd say the players are chomping at the bit in the dressing rooms.

Burkie1203

France win please

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086687#Comment_121086687

They won't have arrived till very late. Warmups facilitated elsewhere.

This, though, is shite.

fitz

Like, whoever came up with that guff has to be someone's cousin to have got the gig. Embarrassing.

TheRona

What a complete mess

fitz

Haha, crowd are like..."shut up with your poorly written speech, we've got singing to do and rugby to watch."

klose

Lol @ macron

Larbre34

Its so great that the French public have absolutely no time for this blazer guff.

Zero respect for blow hards and feckers.

Gerronwitit

obi604

Morto for Macron 😬😬

Did he or his army of staff not pre empt this hostility?

Dillonb3

Macron seems like a popular bloke

ctrl-alt-delete

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086726#Comment_121086726

They were not boos they were saying Bleus 😂

TheRona

Beaumont and Macron had no joy silencing the crowd. Guess it's up to the AB's now.

ctrl-alt-delete

Makes you wonder how the crowd will receive the Haka.

All things considered what a treat of an opening game. Can't wait for them to get on the pitch.

fitz

Cane out for NZ... that's good for them!

TheRona

No Sam Cane. Interesting.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086739#Comment_121086739

F**k the Haka. A massive liberty taken, by all the teams that do it. No idea why its indulged. Maybe Ireland could do Riverdance?

Anthems, whistle, kickoff, best of luck....

TheRona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086749#Comment_121086749

I dunno. They didn't select enough loosies for this tournament.

Hermy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086726#Comment_121086726

Of course he did - he’s French! He ignored the boos and carried on regardless.

Bill expected them all to pipe down while he spoke which is hilarious.

Cookiemunster

The booing for Macron had nothing to do with his speech. He is extremely unpopular, with the recent shut down on the rioting making him even less popular. He only got reelected as the choice was him or Le Pen.

Anyways, it was a shite opening ceremony. Bring on the rugby.

TheRona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086751#Comment_121086751

Ah sure, it wouldn't be a NZ match without someone getting their knickers in a twist over the haka.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086770#Comment_121086770

Traditions are there to be kneecapped.

TheRona

Papali'i to openside

Vai'i to 6

Retallick on to the bench.

Would have expected Vai'i to go to lock and S Barrett to go to 6.

fitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086757#Comment_121086757

Cane shouldn't be a starter, never mind the captain, imo.