Upsetting experience at a Vet Clinic

kiffkroker

We just a really upsetting experience with a well known veterinarian practice .

This (well known) veterinarian clinic took our cat in for spaying and microchipping and refused to return our cat. Claiming instead, that they've found the 'real' owners of the cat.

We have reason to doubt this however, because the cat happens to be a pedigree cat, and supposedly all that the 'real' owners had to show was a picture of the un-chipped cat.

The details of what happened are as follows:

We found a very friendly cat in the streets, we petted the cat, spent some time with her but went on our way eventually. A day later, we found the cat in the same spot and hungry so we bought some food for her.

She followed us home. In two days, we took the cat to the vet (The same ones who later took away our pet) in order to check for microchips and she didnt have any.

In the meantime, we scoured social media for reports of a missing cat, walked around the neighbourhood looking for 'missing cat' signs without success. The kids had taken a liking to her (adults too) so we decided to keep her.

(Its worth noting that we have no inclination for a pedigree cat specifically. We just like cats)

We booked an appointment with this vet to microchip her in a couple of weeks.

We dropped the cat off in the morning (this was the third appointment in two weeks) with the agreement that the cat would be returned to us by the afternoon as is normally to be expected.

The vets didnt say anything about 'finding' the 'real' owners at this point. By the afternoon however, we got a call from them saying that, in the intervening hours the real owners had 'come forward' and they were going to 'return' the cat to this mysterious person.

When we asked what evidence they had, all they could say was that this person apparently had a photo of a similar looking cat.

There were no vaccination records, the cat wasnt microchipped (the cat was 2 years old as estimated by the vets themselves previously)

We were extremely distressed and had made it clear that we do not consent for our cat to be taken away but the vets refused.

They even kept our cat carrier which we used to drop the cat off in. We never got to see our cat again.

The whole incident has left us extremely shaken (Not to mention this has affected our children) and we're shocked as to how a veterinarian practice here can operate with such brazen disregard for basic human decency. Much less appoint themselves judge and jury as to who an unchipped cat should go to. 

Any advice appreciated. (we're in Dublin if that makes any difference)

dashoonage

Call the garda for advice, im sure they will look for suitable proof of ownership from the claimed owner.

SuperBowserWorld

That's a shocking story. I remember I found a beautiful golden retriever once and took it to the vet. Wasn't chipped. Put signs around, rang the police, walked dog around neighborhood ...etc etc ... this was before Facebook ... Nothing. Then after a week I took the dog to a person who specialized in rehoming them. 3 hour drive there and back. The dog was to be neutered etc. Then the owners turn up. Absolute ******* brain melt the whole thing was.

Escapees

Given that you found this lost pedigree cat in the first place, I think the reality is that there was always a possibility of the owners surfacing. On one hand, it is nice for the cat to be reunited with its owners. On the other hand, the communication on the vet's side seems poor and lacking. Incidentally, I would not be shy about passing on the vet costs incurred since finding the cat to the original owners, via the vet perhaps...

kiffkroker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060458#Comment_121060458

Gards arent interested. I went to them the same day. They said "Its not a Garda matter"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060531#Comment_121060531

If its the cat's real owners, I would reluctanty be okay with it. But thats the thing. I doubt that story. How did the 'owner' suddenly show up the very day we left the cat at the vets? The behaviour of the vets and how the handled it just extremely shadey. Since then, we've been looking up the price of the breed of cats (that we suspect she was) and kittens are 1k. As for costs, the vets havent even returned us the cat cage we bought for her. That itself is ~30 EUR. Price tag still in place.

Victor

Did you go to the vet to collect the cat cage?

kiffkroker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060720#Comment_121060720

No. But we feel like we shouldnt have to go begging for our stuff back. They already took our cat; Now going back and saying "At least give the cage back" seems like tacityly accepting that we're okay with them taking the cat away. In any case for me the cage isnt whats important, its the cat.

(BTW, the cat didnt have a collar on either when we found her)

Ezeoul

I am so very sorry for your upset.

It's more likely that the owners didn't just coincidentally turn up the same day, but have been ringing around every vet practice in the county to see if their cat was brought in, leaving their details - and something about that rang a bell with the veterinary practice, and they checked up. Cats can disappear for weeks.

You should definitely get your cat carrier back, and ask the vet to pass on any costs to the other party. FWIW, I think the vet practice treated you very poorly.

kiffkroker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060972#Comment_121060972

Thanks. As @SuperBowserWorld said, its shocking.

Do you reckon there are legal avenues we have open? Does anyone I mean, not specifically yourself.

Seth Brundle

Isn't this what many cats do? They find alternative homes and get dinners and so on from them. It doesnt mean that the "new" owners are the legal owners (as the OP found out!).

How would the OP feel if their cat went AWOL and someone else was claiming ownership over it?

As for the vet, what were they to do? It sounds like they were confident that the OP's cat was the missing one. There is no easy way to tell the OP that the cat isn't theirs!

kiffkroker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061070#Comment_121061070

I would feel terrible if someone claimed my cat of course. But, hopefully I would have my cat chipped. Regardless, as I said earlier, I wouldnt mind so much if the cat found her 'real' owners, you see.

The problem here is, given the shady, suspicious way it was handled by the vets, I doubt very much the cat is indeed with her original owners. My suspicion is that she is with someone who wants to pay for a breed cat. Its too much of a coincidence for the owner to show up in the 3 hours the cat was at the vet when she was missing for at least 2 weeks.

muddypaws

If this is indeed a Pedigree cat worth €1,000 I would be very surprised that it wouldn't be microchipped.

Chips move, was the cat scanned all over with a chip reader? One of my dogs, her chip is in her front leg, another rescue dog had the chip migrate to their armpit.

Legally you wouldn't own the cat until 366 days after finding her. Have you seen any posters in the area for a missing cat?

A lot of cat owners don't put collars on because of the danger of a cat hanging themselves jumping off something.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061660#Comment_121061660

A lot of cat owners don't put collars on because of the danger of a cat hanging themselves jumping off something.

I only use collars with safety release catches for that very reason. I can't tell you how many times mine have come home without their collars.

DBB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061660#Comment_121061660

Just to clarify the point here... legally you wouldn't own the cat until 366 days after reporting finding her. That report should be made to the guards, in the case of a cat. Dogs can be reported to the guards and/or dog warden.

This means that if you take in a pet animal and don't report it, legally, it never actually belongs to you.

Not that this applies in the OP's case, as they only had the cat for 2 weeks... but the bottom line is, no "found" item, whether it's a cat, a purse, or an item of jewellery, can be considered "yours" until 366 days after you report finding it.

OP, I think you need to go to the vet practice in person, and try to find out what happened, and to make sense of their side of the story. It's entirely possible, as already mentioned, that someone in the practice recognised the cat when you left it in, and/or knew that a cat of the same breed had been reported missing in the area in the past fortnight. But you can't find out any of this unless you ask, and I'd suggest you do this in person.

I would not for one second suspect that anyone in the practice attempted to steal/sell the cat on. That seems like a serious stretch in the absence of any other solid information about the circumstances.

iniscealtra

@DBB I would agree. You found the cat and minded it for two weeks. The owners had probably sent photos to the vets of a cat they missed, Problem solved. Chances are that they will now chip the cat in case it goes wandering again.

iniscealtra

The vet should have passed on your details for you and them to sórt things out rather than giving them the cat in my opinion. There would be less upset that way.

magicbastarder

If the vet has the cat and is reasonably certain they know the real owners, on what grounds could they not have given the cat to the real owner, rather than setting up some sort of moderation as you say? If the other owners are genuine, how could the vet say to them 'we have your cat but you can't have it back till you talk to the people who've had it for two weeks'?

As to the OP, you say you like cats, but if you do and found a cat on the street, surely you know it could be a missing cat and that this was a possibility? Going to the gardai or pursuing legal avenues over a cat you found two weeks ago seems a bit much...

iniscealtra

@magicbastarder Ok I see your point. I think the OP is annoyed by the shock of it. A bit of mediation/ a chat with the owners might have sorted that.

I agree the only people with evidence of ownership are the people with the photo who contacted the vet at the time the cat went missing.

I would also go to the vet and get the cat carrier.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061851#Comment_121061851

That would be a serious GDPR breach by the vet. The "new" owners have no claim on the cat so shouldn't have the "original" owners details. As the vet got the new owners details solely to treat the cat there's no legal way to give the original owner the new owners details. For all the vet knows the new owners could of stolen the cat.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061184#Comment_121061184

My feeling is that the cat is now with its real owner and the vet had enough information to know same.

mykrodot

sorry to hear this OP, you were doing the right thing. Its possible the actual owners have claimed back their cat, I hope that is the case anyway. Not sure the vets would have time to moderate but I do think they should have rung you to give you a heads up that the original owners had turned up.

As for the cat carrier, how are they meant to return it to you unless you go back into the surgery? They aren't going to deliver it back to you by car! Just go in and ask for it, simple!

(on the flip side, vets regularly loan cages to people to bring animals home in and those people return them a few days later, its a common thing in my vets)

kiffkroker

What worries me here is that it seems we agree that if you or I leave our pet with a vet (and we have only had the pet for less than a year), the vet can decide to give it away to whoever they see fit? Isnt that way too much adjudication powers in the hands of these vets?

I agree the cat doesnt legally belong to me. What I contest is that the cat doesnt belong to the vet to give away either. And, quite possibly doesnt belong to whoever the vet decided to give her away to.

DBB

Why don't you go in to the vets, collect your carrier, talk to the vet or staff there, and find out what exactly happened? With all due respect, you're only annoying yourself with all this speculation.

For what it's worth, I think it's entirely reasonable for a vet to return an animal to its rightful owner once the vet staff have established that the cat is theirs. It's entirely possible that the rightful owners were able to produce photos, were able to list some identifying features that the cat has, it might even be that the cat was actually already microchipped, but the chip has migrated and was only picked up during the preparatory pre-scan that should be done immediately prior to a new chip being implanted. Perhaps the cat is already a client of this vet practice, and a member of staff recognised her. Perhaps the cat was already neutered, and this helped them narrow down who she might belong to, particularly if they had neutered a cat of her breed in the past year or two. Perhaps, when the rightful owners turned up, it was clear from the cat's reaction that she knew them.

In any instance, I would consider it highly unlikely that a vet, vet nurse, or vet staff would either try to sell a pet animal on, or not return an animal to its rightful owner once they had established some facts.

Either way, speculating, and indeed making accusations in the absence of finding out more, is not doing anyone any good.

magicbastarder

this is the man we need.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062331#Comment_121062331

Except, that's not what happened. The vet didn't decide to give your pet away.

They returned the cat which you said was a stray that you'd found, to the person they believed to be the cat's rightful owners.

If it was a pedigree cat, it is likely that as well as photos this person had papers for the cat, proof of their health records, or knowledge of identifying marks. Maybe as DBB said, the chip had migrated. It happens.

I am genuinely sorry for your upset. It was a horrible thing to happen. But I think you need to let go of this theory that the vet somehow took advantage of the situation to sell the cat for profit.

muddypaws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062331#Comment_121062331

I assume you told the vet that you'd found the cat when you first took her in to be scanned?

kiffkroker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063222#Comment_121063222

Of course. In fact, I regret being honest about it in hindsight because they used that against us. "You've already told us the cat doesn't belong to you therefore we can take the cat away from you if we like"

kiffkroker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062679#Comment_121062679

If you look at the vet's behaviour vs ours, we've been honest, straight-forward and transparent throughout (which I regret now in hindsight but thats another story)

The vets are the ones who have been less than forthright about their intentions. You dont think its the least bit strange that the 'real owner' showed up in the few hours we left the cat at theirs? In fact, when we asked them about is (How did the owner suddenly 'show up'?) they said "I'm not at liberty to discuss that matter" - what does that tell you about them?

Besides, even if you believe the vet's account of the events, its still true that they appointed themselves judge and jury of who the cat should go to? I mean we werent even given a chance to review this 'evidence' they had - after taking care of the cat for two weeks, feeding her caring for her.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064997#Comment_121064997

You regret being honest? That says it all. It wasn't your cat, you had it for two weeks.

If you like cats get your own, you really need to get over this. The owners had a picture of the cat and probably a receipt if it was a pedigree.

Having said that no one owns a cat, if they don't like their owners and prefer you they'll probably wander back. If that happens the owners might decide to give/sell it to you instead. My cat is my neighbour's cat originally, they were happy enough to let her decide, though why she chose me is anyone's guess 🙂

Ezeoul

I already said that I think it is far more likely that someone had been in contact with the vet practice recently to report their missing cat, and when you brought this cat in, it rang a bell with someone at the practice who put two and two together.

I don't believe it's anything more than that. The vet then most likely contacted the owners who went down with proof of ownership, sufficient to convince the vet that the cat was theirs.

I dont know what more you want people to say, at this stage.

The cat wasn't yours. You did a very kind thing, taking care of her for as long as you did, but I don't think there is anything else you can do now, other than let it go and chalk it up to experience.

Maybe you would consider adopting a cat that needs a good home like you seem willing to provide, and some good will come of all this upset.

endacl

It’s worth bearing in mind that even cats think cat people are weird.

tk123

OP did you post eg in local FB, WhatsApp etc groups that you had the cat? You say you looked for lost cat notices and didn’t find any (possibly as the cat wasn’t lost?) but no mention if you did anything to find the owners? I say this as our local FB group has had one lost and 2 found/does anyone own this cat posts today(!)… and there’s daily cat posts lol

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064997#Comment_121064997

The point you seem to be missing is that you spotted someone else's cat on the road, and decided to take it for yourself because it looked nice and your children liked it. Now you're upset because the vet found the cat's real owner and gave it back to them, and the vet is rightfully being cagey about giving you any more information. You need to remember that this was never your cat, no matter how much you spent on a carrier or what procedures you decided to put it through.

If you really want a cat of your own, go into the vet and ask for your carrier back; then go to a rescue centre and adopt a stray in the proper way.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062331#Comment_121062331

What worries me here is that it seems we agree that if you or I leave our pet with a vet (and we have only had the pet for less than a year), the vet can decide to give it away to whoever they see fit? Isnt that way too much adjudication powers in the hands of these vets?

This did not happen and trying to garner sympathy by making up scenarios won't work. You never owned this cat. You took it in knowing that in all likleihood, it's real owner was someone nearby. You then decided to spend money on this animal knowing that you did not own it. When the rightful owner was located, you resented having to give the car back - but you have no rights over this cat.

The vet did the right thing; they returned the cat to its legal owner. You have no legal right to the animal. You moaning about fairness is your problem and nobody's elses!

I agree the cat doesnt legally belong to me. What I contest is that the cat doesnt belong to the vet to give away either. And, quite possibly doesnt belong to whoever the vet decided to give her away to.

FFS, you're being childish with this statement: grow up FFS!

If you wish to be the proud owner of a pedigree cat then go out and buy one rather than trying to adopt a neighbours!

kiffkroker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065121#Comment_121065121

I wasnt looking for people to say anything really ... maybe advice or just put up with me for having a bit of a moan (of course the kind words that folks have said are nice to hear nonetheless. Although equally, someone using a passing remark about "I regret being honest" against me is needlessly ad hominem, but this is the internet I suppose)

What I am failing to grasp however, is how folks are seemingly fine with a system where someone can just take something away from you.

For example, if you bought a stolen car without knowning it (you failed to check the vin number against the reg cert perhaps or whatever) and gave it to a garage for an oil change; A day later, the garage said "Oh yeah we'll return it to the real owner. Trust us, we're the good guys", would you be fine with that? (Yes I know, besides being three letter words starting with c, we're talking about different things, and Gards would readily get involved if a garage decided to keep a car etc. but, ignoring those, ... the garage cant be trusted with something like that surely?)

Folks keep saying the same thing: "the cat wasnt yours, get over it". Yeah sure but thats not the point - its not the vets to give away either (or for them to decide who to give away.)

Its the wholehearted agreement to the system that I dont get: How can you be so blase with vets having power to take your pets away on what they see fit.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121067178#Comment_121067178

What I am failing to grasp however, is how folks are seemingly fine with a system where someone can just take something away from you.

So you mean a system whereby someone#'s property can be returned to them?

For example, if you bought a stolen car without knowning it (you failed to check the vin number against the reg cert perhaps or whatever) and gave it to a garage for an oil change; A day later, the garage said "Oh yeah we'll return it to the real owner. Trust us, we're the good guys", would you be fine with that? (Yes I know, besides being three letter words starting with c, we're talking about different things, and Gards would readily get involved if a garage decided to keep a car etc. but, ignoring those, ... the garage cant be trusted with something like that surely?)

You're making up scenarios to suit your belief that you had some kind of entitlement to hold onto this animal despite knowing that it wasn't yours and that in all likleihood, someone would be looking for it.

If you feel that you were wronged, then maybe talk to the gardai or even a solicitor and see what they say about it!

Folks keep saying the same thing: "the cat wasnt yours, get over it". Yeah sure but thats not the point - its not the vets to give away either (or for them to decide who to give away.)

The vet returned the animal to its owner, as they are obliged to do. They had no reason to hold onto it until you were satisfied in some shape or form.

Its the wholehearted agreement to the system that I dont get: How can you be so blase with vets having power to take your pets away on what they see fit.

You still don't seem to understand this so I'll shout it out: IT WASN'T YOUR PET so your pet wasn't taken from you. Hopefully it will eventually register with you!

As for your dissatisfaction with the system that allows a vet whose role it is to look after the best welfare for an animal to return the animal to its owner knowing that you were not the rightful owner (as you had told them), as I said earlier, grow up!

DBB

If the vet has an animal that they know to belong to somebody else, and have evidence to show it, they are absolutely, 100% within their rights, indeed obliged to give that animal back to its rightful owner.

For all you know, the cat was reported stolen. At the very least, the cat was likely to have been reported missing. Same cat lands in with the vet... if the vet was to give the cat back to a person that they KNOW not to be the actual owner, particularly in light of them knowing who the actual owner is, they would be in a world of trouble.

As has been explained, you did not own the cat, you had and have zero legal claim to the cat. The person who owns the cat is absolutely, 100% within their rights to claim their cat back from whatever entity has possession of the cat. The vet has ZERO obligation to give you any details.

I'm still mystified as to why you don't appear to have gone to the clinic to pick up your cat carrier, nor to try to talk personally with them about what happened.

With respect, your tone in your posts comes across as quite condescending, and somewhat entitled (eg referring to the cat as "your" cat even after you've been made aware you have zero claim to her. You've also been asked if you actively advertised her as found on local groups, but you havent replied to that nor mentioned it, so it appears you didn't). Perhaps it's not intentional, but if you came across the same way to the veterinary staff, I wouldn't blame them for not furnishing you with any info you didn't need to know.

Hoboo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060499#Comment_121060499

That to me is a great result, long drive aside you should have been delighted.

o1s1n

This thread is unbelievable.

There are wandering cats all over my neighbourhood. I stop to give them a pet regularly. With the full realisation that someone local owns them. Particularly if they're tame and an expensive breed.

I can't get around how you went back with food and then decide that it is within your right to take the cat? That's simply theft. You stole someone's cat.

There probably weren't any missing signs up yet as the owner just thought their cat went off for a wander. This happens with cats all the time. The cat didn't come home as usual and they were probably worried sick.

Seriously unbelievable thread. Can't believe there are folks out there who would think this is a normal okay thing to do?

Hoboo

Parenting 101.

If you find something that doesn't belong to you just keep it, then it belongs to you.

Furze99

I think the moral of this sad story is that cats own you, not the other way around.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121067178#Comment_121067178

How can you honestly be giving out about someone 'taking something away' from you when you literally did exactly the same thing to a cat owner a couple of weeks ago?

I know you're going through a bit of shock at the moment OP as you clearly really liked the cat, but just take a step back and look at the situation. The way you feel right now, someone else felt exactly the same way when their cat didn't come home a couple of weeks ago because of you.

Not sure where you're based, but if you're in Dublin and are looking for a cat, <mod snip: please recommend individual rescues by PM. Thanks!>