Fuel allowance application refused

Bocking 14

Fuel Allowance was applied for as a Community Employment (CE) scheme participant.

The application was refused due to not being on Jobseekers Allowance for 312 days prior to commencing the CE scheme. 

I was in receipt of the PUP for more than 312 days before joining the CE scheme.

​There is no appeals process for this decision however a review can be requested. 

​Has anyone successfully had their application accepted following a review?

Is there any point in requesting a review?

Thank you.

TooTired123

On which grounds were you refused fuel allowance? What does the letter say?

Sorry I can see you already answered that in your OP

TooTired123

So the sequence of events for you was

1/ at work

2/ PUP

3/ CE scheme?

I can’t see any grounds for a review. The only way a CE scheme allows for you to keep your FA is if you had FA previous to starting the scheme.

PUP can be used to make up the days for JSA but as you were never on JSA at all then it doesn’t come into play.

Dempo1

OK, I've been through this .

If you've not reached the time (12 Months) on a Jobseekers payment and then start a CE scheme the clock stops & you will not , I repeat, not be awarded fuel allowance. It's rather Sneaky and through my own due diligence discovered this, just before starting a CE scheme.

Admittedly my situation was unique & over the space of a week the DSP awarded me Fuel Allowance just before I started the CE scheme. It was quite a Kerfuffle & involved me being put back onto a Jobseekers payment ,then off & then I started the scheme with Fuel allowance awarded.

Unfortunately people are unaware that if they start a CE scheme & had not built up the 12 months & started on the Scheme, Fuel Allowance will Not be awarded.

This I hope will clarify the situation albeit its not the news OP Will want to hear.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060061#Comment_121060061

I've done a detailed response having being through the exact same scenario last December, it's not the news OP will want but unfortunately if eligibility time frame of 12 months on a Jobseekers payment is not built up prior to commencing a CE scheme, it will not be awarded whilst on the CE scheme, the eligibility clock in essence stops as CE schemes are not Jobseekers payment .

If a person has Fuel allowance prior to starting the CE scheme, they retain that allowance during the duration of their placement.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060128#Comment_121060128

It’s terribly convoluted Dempo. They must find a way to simplify this so people can know before they bother applying at all.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060308#Comment_121060308

I agree but DSP would argue that the eligibility for FA if on a Jobseekers payment is 12 months and clear. Unfortunately people do not realise nor are they informed , if taking up a CE scheme, the eligibility clock stops whilst On the scheme, I'm finishing one shortly there was at least 6 people caught in this scenario last year. My impression is there's such a rush to get people off a Jobseekers payment & on to these schemes, if people knew ,they'd not partake in them.

FA must be in place if eligible, prior to starting a CE scheme & bizzarely, OP Was just Shy of the requirements prior to going on the CE scheme. Citizens Information have been bombarded with queries about this .

The real issue is lack of awareness of what going on a CE scheme means , there's also allowances lost for people on DA, I believe but reinstated when people come off CE SCHEMES.

Cherry Blossom

Im trying to figure out if my boyfriend will get fuel allowance this year, he was unemployed, then CE scheme and got fuel allowance while on CE then on jobseekers for a few months and now working 2 days a week and on X’s and O’s. He hasn’t a clue how many days is counted. I assume he’ll still be entitled to it when he got it on CE but I just don’t know for sure.

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058311928/fuel-allowance-application-refused

You should apply for review. State you were involuntarily put on PUP, pandemic circumstances through no fault of your own akin to losing your employment etc. Also highlight why you need fuel allowance, give examples of percentage of income might be spent on fuel in past year, low BER in abode, or whatever best presents your case

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060699#Comment_121060699

People can of course seek a review but as I've pointed out, a waste of time. I've met up to 6 people on the CE scheme I'm about to finish & move to DA, all have applied, all refused.

If the 12 months has not been reached prior to starting a CE scheme, Fuel allowance will not be awarded

PUP has no baring on Fuel allowance eligibility, those on PUP where not entitled to it. When people moved to a Jobseekers Payment after PUP, it took 12 months to achieve eligibility.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060656#Comment_121060656

He would have got Fuel allowance as he had 12 months on a Jobseekers, not because he was on the CE scheme. Had he gone back on jobseekers fully he would get it but I can't say how being on X & O's will affect his eligibility.

In essence he retained his eligibility whilst on the scheme, this would remain when going back on a Jobseekers payment but as he's working part time it may affect his eligibility.

Dempo1

OP, this might better explain, essentially the fact you were not on JSA/B prior to starting the CE scheme has gone against you. Even if you where on JSA/B for a week prior to starting the CE scheme you could have used time on PUP towards Eligibility for Fuel allowance.

Are you 100% sure you didn't transition onto JSB after PUP, even for a short time, I only ask as the Majority still on PUP when it ended where automatically transitioned onto JSB if they had enough stamps, those without where invited to apply for JSA which was fast tracked, it's rare to hear anyone went on a CE scheme from PUP

gipi

JB and\or PUP can only be counted towards qualifying for fuel if a claimant goes on JA after these payments (it states this in the quoted text above). Going from PUP to JB before starting a CE won't count, as JB isn't of itself a qualifying payment.

zell12

Although Fuel Allowance is not payable to those in receipt of PUP, time spent on PUP may count towards qualification periods for customers receiving a qualifying payment, for example Jobseeker's Allowance. Fuel Allowance is payable to qualifying customers who have been getting Jobseeker's Allowance for more than 390 days. If a customer has come directly from PUP to Jobseeker's Allowance, then the PUP duration for both 2020 and 2021 can be considered for the purposes of Fuel Allowance eligibility.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2021-11-02/612/

Dempo1

So just to be clear, when I laid out my experience. I went from PUP to JSB. As that was running out, I was about 2 Transition to JSA. I decided to go on a CE scheme instead, health reasons where in part the reason, the position was admin, no physical duties.

I then discovered before starting the scheme, I'd not reach eligibility for Fuel allowance. I was always upfront with DSP about my health & brought this dilemma about Fuel allowance to my case officers attention. To her & the team at my local Intero Centre's credit, they acted immediately. They put me on JSA temporarily for a week, prior 2 starting the CE scheme, awarded me Fuel allowance, my last payment processed & I literally started the CE scheme the following week with fuel allowance being paid.

I should mention, this was early December & it was likely I'd be applying for DA whilst on the CE scheme.

As it happens, I did apply for DA last June & was awarded DA within 2 months.

So whilst I was on JSB for 9 months, it was in fact the week I was on JSA+ my time time on PUP that got me over the line to get Fuel allowance. Had I started on the CE scheme from JSB, I'd not have got Fuel allowance.

It would seem, and I wasn't aware, JSB is not a qualifying payment for Fuel allowance.

Hope this clarifies things.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060699#Comment_121060699

They certainly can ask for a review but it will not result in them getting fuel allowance. The applicant was not on JSA at any stage. PUP can contribute to making up the JSA minimum days condition, but can’t be used instead of it.

The fact that PUP was involuntary is totally irrelevant. Current or previous electricity or other bills are totally irrelevant and will make absolutely no difference to the outcome.

The deciding officer has no discretion in awarding or not awarding fuel allowance. The applicant either meets the conditions or they don’t.

Remember, the deciding officer is sitting with the applicants claim history in detail in front of them and the conditions attached to fuel allowance besides that. It is a tick box exercise quite simply.

Bocking 14

Thank you for all of the replies.

To clarify, the sequence of payments:

Initially PUP.

Applied for JSB but was mistakenly awarded JSA, which was rectified after a week then awarded JSB.

Remained on JSB for circa 8 months

Applied to CE scheme.

In summary, PUP,JSA,JSB,CE.

It seems if I'd transitioned to JSA immediately before the CE scheme commenced, I'd be eligible for Fuel Allowance.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121072860#Comment_121072860

Those on PUP when it ended where, if eligible transitioned to JSB automatically, there was no application required. You say you applied for JSB and was bizarrely put on JSA, which is means tested.

If you spent a week on JSA in error, then by default albeit an error & where on PUP, say for a year, you would then qualify.

I remain confused as to why you even applied for JSB when PUP was ending, this was not required.

It's up to you, but if you were on JSA, even for a week you qualified, albeit in error.

Bocking 14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073265#Comment_121073265

It was required to apply for a Jobseekers payment when the PUP was ending, which I was invited to do by the DEASP.

I applied for JSB but was awarded JSA for whatever reason; I requested to be transferred to JSB and this was carried out after a week.

JSA is the qualifying payment and time spent on the PUP and JSB can count towards the 312 day qualifying period but it states on the Citizens Information website that the PUP/JSB payment must be immediately before the JSA payment.

In my case it was PUP>JSA>JSB.

I can request a review but I do not know if there is any point due to the above-mentioned.

Dempo1

No one was required to apply for JSB after PUP if you were eligible it was done automatically given the numbers involved, if you hadn't required stamps for JSB, you were invited to apply for JSA. I was on PUP & moved automatically to JSB & received a letter confirming this.

It literally makes no sense, DSP put you JSA in error but that aside, as I've explained if you were on JSB and went onto a CE scheme, you will not get Fuel Allowance.

If you can prove you were on JSA, even for a week & in error you may have a slim chance.

Time on PUP & JSA prior to starting a CE Scheme will count towards eligibility for Fuel Allowance.

I've come across many people on CE SCHEMES who were never on PUP who did not have enough time on JSA prior to starting a CE scheme & have been repeatedly refused fuel allowance whilst on the scheme , the Eligibility clock stops the minute you start a CE scheme.

TippCashel

To cross in a bit, how long does the application generally take?

I applied via mywelfare middle-end of August. Since then I received a letter in the post asking to fill out stuff and return, which I did almost 2 weeks ago. Just want to make sure I'd actually have in time for first payment is all. Or who would I follow up with? Intreo/Welfare office?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108201#Comment_121108201

Applications can take up to 4 weeks, application if approved will be backdated if you've no decision by start date, you should have a decision this or next week.

Bocking 14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106377#Comment_121106377

As I've already said, I was invited to apply for JSB/JSA, there was no automatic transfer.

It might make a difference in that I had self-employed status rather than employed.

I was awarded JSA despite applying for JSB as that was more advantageous to me (standard procedure by DEASP)

gipi

If JSA was more advantageous to you, you should have been left on it and not switched to JSB? Did DSP explain why they switched you, especially if it left you worse off?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112919#Comment_121112919

This is the first time you've mentioned Self employment in this entire THREAD, notwithstanding the fact JSA would have been a better payment to be on.

Bocking 14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121114547#Comment_121114547

It wasn't relevant-you decided to make having to apply/not having to apply an issue, which detracted from the subject matter.

The JSA was awarded by the deciding officer despite not being applied for. I realised that the necessary means test had not been carried out and this would have a bearing on the entitlement to JSA hence requesting to be changed to JSB.

Bocking 14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112964#Comment_121112964

Explained in post above.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117805#Comment_121117805

It was relevant I'm afraid as self employed Jobseekers have to go through an entirely different process, produce accounts etc I'm finding your story a litte hard to believe, frankly. You've posted this Tale on AAM and story kept changing.

Ultimately the bottom line is, DSP have by all accounts made the correct decision.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112919#Comment_121112919

Not once, I repeat not once did you mention Self employment here or on AAM until very late in this Thread . How on earth you expect to get feedback without the full facts is beyond me.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121121248#Comment_121121248

Did you join Boards just to post this 🙄

Read the Thread.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124564#Comment_121124564

No it's a Clown setting up an account on the 16th September to post nonsense, friend of OP, Perhaps 🙄

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125006#Comment_121125006

No abuse, just pointing out the obvious, what are up to now 10 posts 🙄 bless your cotton socks, keep this up you'll reach 20 by the end of day

endofrainbow

Can someone in receipt of supplementary allowance (which waiting for appeal of Disability and Invalidity) apply for Household benefits and/or Living alone Allowance? Age 60

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121142393#Comment_121142393

No I’m afraid not. You have to be in an eligible payment in order to apply and SWA is not an eligible payment.

Bocking 14

Not relevant-no distinction made between JB/JBSE

Bocking 14

@Dempo1 Get a grip and calm down you clown.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121146429#Comment_121146429

O dear Very Tetchy, when you make up fairy Tales, expect to be caught out, also try stick to the same story when posting silly nonsense on different sites, might be wise also to use a different User name also 🙄

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121146424#Comment_121146424

Silly you, there's a rather large difference between Self employed & Paye Jobseekers, starting with having to produce detailed accounts, I suspect given your petulance you may not even know what accounts are.

Time to move on 🙄

Bocking 14

@Dempo1 accounts for JBSE..? That has nothing to do with JBSE, it’s ones Revenue status.

The DEASP make no distinction between JB and JBSE, the payment amount and duration are the same.

Inform yourself before commenting on topics you know nothing about.

And do a literacy/grammar course instead of making yourself look like an insufferable ass.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121146670#Comment_121146670

Says someone with 64 posts 🙄

Self employed JSBE is assessed on a claimants earnings or lack thereof from self employment, stamps paid also an entirely different ball game but clearly your again deliberately deflecting from the fact you did not disclose you were self employed until, rather late in this thread, you also had an entirely different fairy tale on AAM.

I get your a little angry at be caught out, you can continue to insult, I'm long enough on Boards & thick skinned.

Now get over self, perhaps request this ridiculous thread be closed, your making an Eejit of yourself

Bocking 14

@Dempo1

Whether the applicant is in receipt of JBSE/JB makes no difference to the assessment of an application for Fuel Allowance, due to it being a benefit rather than an allowance. The DEASP refer to JBSE as JB in their correspondence.

The “stamps” you refer to (periodical PRSI payments) accrue the same entitlement to a maximum of 9 months benefit payment.

For the purpose of this post, JBSE is irrelevant hence being unnecessary to state as the same rules apply as JB, that is unless you’re some anal pedant who has too much time on their hands.

64 posts might be indicative of being a tad productive in society rather than 26,671 welfare-claiming themed posts. I note they’re allowance-related indicating longterm state dependency. Perhaps if you devoted such effort in to getting a job and being a net contributor to society instead of using welfare funded time posting superciliously on anonymous forums you’d have less internalised anger/self-importance type issues?

And it’s “you’re” not your. Go on, take that literacy course-you evidently have plenty of time for it.

My post on AAM asks the same question verbatim, with the same information.

It’s slightly bizarre that you’ve any interest in AAM considering its employment/independence theme.

All the best JD2021/Dempo/other.

Dempo1

My interest in AAM money is none of your concern but I did find it curious you seeking advice on two Forums. Perhaps you thought you might get the answer you wanted there as opposed to the factual response you got here.

Your clearly not aware that AAM has a number of Finance forums and I've been on it since 2021 as have others on this forum who spotted your fairy tale elsewhere.

Your observations on my long history on Boards is curious but yes, I spent much time on here during the pandemic helping those, including self employed navigate PUP, which I clearly understood more than you. I also contributed to other forums, which became quite ugly, so now only post in State Benefits forum.

I'm also now on DA after a very long career and sought advice from others on this forum more experienced than I.

Despite your petulance, changing story & facts which frankly beggar's belief, you got the answer to your query which clearly you don't like.

Now move on, this nonsense is becoming quite Tiresome