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Spain - Women World Cup Champions - 1 week later. (How not to manage a crises)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The Spanish international players no longer supported him

    We have no idea who supported him or not, the players that went on strike clearly didn't but the majority of them weren't at the world cup.

    Remember he had to rebuild the core of his squad bringing in much younger inexperienced players mere months out from the World Cup.

    What he achieved doing that is probably one of the greatest achievements in international football.

    Today he is the only one sacked, with what is a rather glowing reference.


    Who claims they were locked in their rooms?

    No one knows. It's alluded to in the blog you linked to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    People going overboard about this one too. Thats Jason Donavon under there somewhere. Wonder how many years people here think the black woman jumping on a white man should get? Probably should fire the other one for supporting this too hey.





  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    one of my nieces is a GAA player on a local team and has played since she was a child as a teenager She commented how come all the players in her team are girls and the trainers and managers are men.



  • Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭Become Death


    Why do you think that is?

    What was your niece told as an answer?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    My daughter is a coach for the local schoogirls GAA club. She is always asking for women to come and coach. The club will even send them on coaching courses if they want. There is zero takeup.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think she meant it as a joke he father was of the opinion that they just wanted to be involved, if it was baby GAA they would want to be the manager.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As an adult, my niece has become a trainer for a younger team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭crusd


    Good to see. One of the issues is that coaches tend to come from parents, and its only now that mothers with playing experience are starting to come though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,324 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Exactly, most male coaches are guys who had a long experience of being involved in the club and playing themselves.

    Expect the same will happen with the female side, and more and more there will be that pool of former players some of whom will go the coaching route.

    Be ridiculous to expect the same availability on the female side at this point.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭chooseusername




    The locking them in their rooms was unfounded tabloid nonsense.

    Who claims they were locked in their rooms?

    No one knows. It's alluded to in the blog you linked to.

    What blog is this?



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,970 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    in the 19 years between 2001 and 2020 the numbers of LGA members rose from 80,000 to 193,000, so a 140% increase.

    so obviously its only in the most recent years that these numbers will be reflected in the number of female coaches etc.

    add on top of that the general 'equalisation' of gender roles in society and sport over that period, from a period of greater male influence in girls sports to a greater female influence in girls sport.

    unfortunately no where near where it should be either with a lot of female gaa clubs being treated as tenants in GAA clubs, many not given training slots until last minute and being the first to be pushed off. hell, even our local rugby club had to allow our local girls gaa teams train on their pitches this year due to their being "no room at the inn" in their gaa club.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    What's the LGA?

    There is no prerequisite of any level of playing experience to volunteer for coaching at my club.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,970 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat



    of course not, thats not any kind of a groundbreaking statement :D

    so ive no idea why you thought it would when you asked :


    When do ye think girls started playing GAA?

    in response to

    most male coaches are guys who had a long experience of being involved in the club and playing themselves.


    especially as it was your first post in the context of the issue being discussed.

    Everyone know playing experience is not a requirement, but is a very useful trait in coaching, and very often a reason why coaches will get involved in the first place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,324 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Do you think every guy who every played GAA went on to coach?

    It's probably between 2 and 5% of people who do so I expect.

    The numbers of girls/women playing GAA were vastly smaller in the 70's, 80's 90's and probably well in to the noughties.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭crusd


    The coaches who tend to lead training are those with experience. At under 8s enthusiastic parents are valuable. When you start getting to under 14s and higher you do need coaching from people who have experience to develop as players. It is only now that more mothers are coming through as up to 20 years ago the playing numbers were very small.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Everyone know playing experience is not a requirement, but is a very useful trait in coaching, and very often a reason why coaches will get involved in the first place.

    Well it really isn't. The term playing experience is very vague anyway. I still don't know what the "LGA" is, but camogie is exclusively played by women so for the logic to be true 100% of camogie managers should be female.

    Most people who played or didn't play wouldn't have a notion on the correct way to teach a juvenile the basics, that's why there is courses.

    Most people who played or didn't play wouldn't have a notion of what drills would be appropriate to what ages, again courses.

    Absolutely nothing stopping women taking up coaching rolls, we are crying out for anyone.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,970 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    ??

    im not really sure why youre replying to me as i haven't said anything in opposition to what youve just posted.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    you do need coaching from people who have experience to develop as players.

    The experience to develop players comes from coaching.

    The best coaches are normally the ones with coaching experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The problem for female sport in general is not initial participation rates, it's drop out rates.

    It's similar with boys but not as acute.

    The reality is once sport goes past the "fun" stage and becomes more competitive people are just not into it.

    It's understandable and something we have to live with.

    Anyway off topic.

    Vilda has given an interview, the reason for his sacking was "restructuring". No other details were given to him.

    Bizarrely his sacking was conveyed to him by the acting President and the Equality commissioner, whatever that is.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,324 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Historically, that might have been the case, and might well continue to be.

    But way more women are starting to play sport, and continuing to play sport for longer now than at any time in the past.

    And one of the likely long term impacts of that will be more female presence in coaching after their playing careers than historically has been the case.

    There's no point in predicting what is happening with womens sport now, and in the future because of what has happened in the past when so many influencing factors have changed, and will probably continue to change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    “The locking them in their rooms was unfounded tabloid nonsense.”

    Where did you read this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Well no, drop out rates for girls are increasing.

    The participation rates for sports at primary level is 95%.

    Like I said participation isn't the problem, the drop out rate is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭crusd


    You do know that camogie is hurling essentially, with an identical skill set?

    And is it difficult to comprehend that the people with the most interest in coaching tend to be those that played the sport? And that up to the last 20 years or less the amount of women that played was a tiny fraction compared to the number of men?

    Is an ability and love for a sport not an advantage when trying to coach?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Is an ability and love for a sport not an advantage when trying to coach?

    You don't have had to play sport at any level to have a love for it no more than having played at any level is a requirement of entering coaching.

    Everyone is welcome and badly needed in my experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭crusd


    But still, can you not see that the numbers of men vs women that participated in the sports in question would have naturally resulted far more men becoming involved in coaching that women.

    Its not saying women are not welcome in coaching, just the previous generation would have had far smaller numbers, resulting in a coaching of girls sport being dominated by men. This is changing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Women have been playing sport for generations.

    The primary reason they are dropping out or not entering coaching is because they don't want to in my experience. It's also the reality of the answers they give when they actually asked. And that has to be respected. They do plenty other important things around the running of the GAA club that seems to go unnoticed because they aren't out on the sign screaming in vain at children.

    The more the better, but no one wants forced equality to make the stats look good, particularly women.

    -------------------------

    Anyway back on topic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,317 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    No one knows. It's alluded to in the blog you linked to.

    You wrote:

    "The locking them in their rooms was unfounded tabloid nonsense."

    That's not in the piece at all:

    "Players say that under Vilda they were denied basic rights on international duty like the right of privacy in their own rooms (doors were left unlocked under the orders of Vilda and his staff to always be able to monitor the players, for example)"

    It appears you misread that, then claimed that your own misinterpretation was "tabloid rubbish".

    Hmmm.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I said the blog alluded to it.

    The original claim was they had to keep their doors unlocked until he personally checked on them, then they were allowed lock their doors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,317 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,317 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Legal action now.

    It's going to get messier for Rubiales



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Anyone, I mean in the context of the topic of the thread it's pretty big news.

    Again, Anyone?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    So why say this so;

    ”The locking them in their rooms was unfounded tabloid nonsense.”

    Unfounded Boggles nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    For example, up until 2019, there was a rule that senior players were not allowed to shut their doors until Vilda had completed a check and approved of the conditions. Only then, once the manager had left, were the women allowed to lock their doors

    No.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Just to add to the sheer weight of what is occurring.

    People may have forgotten or may not be aware but the alleged crime took place in Australia not Spain.

    So in most cases the crime would have to be dealt with in the jurisdiction it occurred in.

    So that is the reason it is being prosecuted by one of the highest courts in Spain, the National Court. They have the ability to prosecute alleged crimes that occurred in other jurisdictions.

    In 1985 Spain passed an Organic Law that defined the jurisdiction of Spanish courts in criminal cases. The law gave Spanish courts jurisdiction in several kinds of cases, such as when the criminal act took place on Spanish soil or when the perpetrator of the crime is of Spanish nationality.

    Additionally, the new law gave Spanish courts jurisdiction over cases related to a particular type of international crimes – ones that are of international concern – regardless of the nationality of the perpetrator or where the crime took place. This section of the law incorporates the principle of “universal jurisdiction” – the principle that certain crimes are so egregious that they are offenses against the entire world and can therefore be tried in the national courts of any country. Some of these crimes were listed in the law, including genocide, terrorism and piracy. A residual clause also grants jurisdiction for “any other [criminal act] which, according to international covenants and treaties, should be prosecuted in Spain.” It has been argued that this residual clause incorporates the offenses of torture and crimes against humanity.

    The principle of universal jurisdiction is not particular to Spain. International treaties, including the Geneva Conventions and the Convention Against Torture, permit and, in some cases, require nations to prosecute perpetrators of egregious human rights abuses even if those nations have no connection to the crimes. Until recently however, the principle of universal jurisdiction was largely aspirational, an ideal discernible in bodies of international law, but lacking in concrete precedent.

    This changed dramatically in 1996, when instructing judges from the SNC invoked the new Spanish law to begin investigating human rights cases arising from the ‘Dirty War’ era in Argentina and Pinochet dictatorship in Chile. The Argentine cases involved the investigation of some 100 suspects. The Chilean cases focused on former dictator Augusto Pinochet and his subordinates. The case against Pinochet in Spain, and his arrest in England based on an extradition request from Spain, launched the modern concept of universal jurisdiction and opened the door to the exercise of universal jurisdiction over human rights crimes by national courts.

    I wonder is it the first time it has been used in such a case.

    This is a fairly hefty tool to pull out of the judiciary box for such an alleged crime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,970 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    So Rubiales situation has got a little stronger???? Oh dear, that lasted well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,970 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    He didn't lock them in their rooms, it was more sinister than that. He told the young women to leave their doors unlocked so that he, an old man, could check whether they were in bed, now how appropriate do you think that was?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,428 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It didn't happen.

    Do you believe literally anything that suits your narrative?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Yes.

    Spain's Administrative Sports Court (TAD) have opened a case against Luis Rubiales for a "serious" but not "very serious" breach of conduct after his unsolicited kiss on Jennifer Hermoso after the World Cup final.

    TAD's decision is a setback for the Spanish government, who now cannot suspend him from his position as president of the Royal Spanish Football Federation [RFEF].

    Again courts are legally obliged to follow due process not the howling of the mob.

    How many years do you think he should get? 1 to 4 apparently according to the papers, although I read 1 to 5.

    I think 4 make a suitable example of him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I know you are trying to be sarcastic here, but at this stage do you think he should be sacked?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,428 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Did her legal complaint mention universal jurisdiction? I don't know much about this, but I could see why a country would have this sort of provision.

    Still don't know a number, I'd just say follow the method (facts, trial, sentencing rubric)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The least of his worries they are using the same mechanisms to prosecute terrorists in order to nail him. How do you feel about that actually?

    If anything he should hang on in there so he keeps getting paid, defending yourself in case like that won't be cheap.

    Like clockwork and as predicted the neo-fascists are out making hay about it. Only so long they could heal to Tebas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I'm against it. But you always seem to dodge the question of whether you think he should be sacked.i presume you don't think he should be sacked as you defend him so much here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I never thought he should be sacked.

    We either have due process or we don't.

    pain's Administrative Sports Court (TAD) have opened a case against Luis Rubiales for a "serious" but not "very serious" breach of conduct after his unsolicited kiss on Jennifer Hermoso after the World Cup final.

    TAD's decision is a setback for the Spanish government, who now cannot suspend him from his position as president of the Royal Spanish Football Federation [RFEF].

    I'm against it

    Could you expand, why are you against it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,992 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I don't know much about this, but I could see why a country would have this sort of provision.

    Yeah, it's there to prosecute 'crimes against humanity', terrorism, piracy, etc.

    It's in the link.

    regardless of the nationality of the perpetrator or where the crime took place. This section of the law incorporates the principle of “universal jurisdiction” – the principle that certain crimes are so egregious that they are offenses against the entire world and can therefore be tried in the national courts of any country. Some of these crimes were listed in the law, including genocide, terrorism and piracy. A residual clause also grants jurisdiction for “any other [criminal act] which, according to international covenants and treaties, should be prosecuted in Spain.” It has been argued that this residual clause incorporates the offenses of torture and crimes against humanity.

    So any thoughts, at all?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,428 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    So any thoughts, at all?

    I could see why a country would have this sort of provision.

    Still don't know a number, I'd just say follow the method (facts, trial, sentencing rubric)



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