Buying a second property in italy

tracy2000

Hi,

I'm at the very beginning of buying property in Italy . I'm not even sure of location yet (we are open to that ) but before all that I think it best to try an locate a reputable estate agent who speaks english , works with expats and can help with the legal side of things, had anyone here been through the process and recommend an agent or what do you feel is the best first step towards buying.

Thanks

Tracy

RichardAnd

Se desideri acquistare una proprietà in Italia, sarebbe educato fare lo sforzo di imparare l'italiano ;)

herbalplants

You could be the agent Richard 😀.

Did you look into those areas offering a house for 1 euro Tracey? I know they go for more than that. But they would have public notary assigned.

NSAman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011750#Comment_121011750

che dire di tutti i traduttori che perderebbero il lavoro? dovresti sempre ottenere una traduzione completa di tutti i documenti E avere un avvocato che parli la tua lingua.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011779#Comment_121011779

Sadly, I only know enough Italian to s**tpost in the language :D.

Property in Italy is a different beast. From what I recall of my uncle's buying a house there, the process is more intimate in that the buyer and seller often meet each other when signing the contracts. There is also enormous variation from region to region. A house in Palermo will be much less than a house in Milan. Generally speaking, the north will be more expensive, and if you're anywhere near the famous cities (i.e., Florence, Venice or Rome, you will pay more).

If you have the money, my recommendation is Tuscany. You'll rent it out as a holiday home with no issues, and Tuscany is (in my opinion) the nicest region of Italy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011798#Comment_121011798

Questo consiglio è buono :). Jokes aside, I wouldn't buy property in Italy without a a native speaker's being present.

tracy2000

Thanks herbalplants,

we did but we thought it might be wise to purchase a house or apartment with a little less work to be done on it and we were hoping to speak to a couple of estate agents that might help us start putting a plan in place and what would be the logical first steps, best areas, current house prices, legal costs, taxes etc. Then we could start to research areas on the back of that, work out budgets and start working towards viewings and purchase

So I hoping some nice people here might be able to recommend a few good estate agents that I could contact.

Thanks tracy

Victor

Be careful. Different culture, legal system, taxes, geography. Consider living there for up to a year before buying.

The Italian embassy in Dublin or the Irish embassy in Rome may be able to give you pointers.

Importantly, different parts of Italy are subject to things like volcanoes, earthquakes, glaciers, rockfalls and snow avalanches. Temperatures can reach into the 40s in summer and stay below freezing for extended periods in winter.

Costs and cost structures might be quite different, e.g. water charges and higher property taxes, but that might include bin charges.

What will access to services be like? Shops, schools, medics, jobs, flights to Ireland.

tracy2000

Thank you for that :)

I didnt think to contact the embassy for the advice , I'll definitely do that

chancer007

Hi, I think if you check the askaboutmoney forum there is some threads about buying in spain/italy etc.. good luck with purchase.

NSAman

Italy is NOT the easiest place to purchase a property..:)

it can take a long time, many meetings, getting to know you..etc..etc…

As an example, a friend has FINALLY closed on a very nice property. It has taken 3 years………….

tracy2000

Ok noted thanks 😊

I have a feeling it's going to be a long process alright but I'm happy to start the ball rolling and get stuck in

NSAman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011975#Comment_121011975

If it’s something you want, go for it. Just invite us all for the house warming. Best of luck!

tracy2000

Thanks chancer007, I'll do that too

Calahonda52

Have a good look at the tax issues also.

All the following relates to Spain

[By way of example, in Spain, if one half of a couple passes on, there is no tax free transfer of assets between spouses.

If you need to sell the property to pay the tax, the tax must be paid first before the property can be sold.

In addition, in Spain most renting must be done through a local agent.

There are also annual returns to be made of worldwide assets, with significant fines for not doing so, the fines attach to the property.

All Governments are looking for more revenue and Spain targeted the Expats/foreigners etc.

There is also a massive problem with migrants and homeless breaking into holidays apartments: the Spanish police could not care less]

.

The most recent carry on with the bank levy in Italy would make me nervous: foreigners owning assets are easy targets.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012084#Comment_121012084

A friend has a property in Spain and some squatters broke into it and just took it. No police or anyone at all were interested in helping. After about 2 years he finally had enough and went over and hired some heavies and they went in and beat the crap out of the squatters. He had to stay while the place was fixed up and then rent it long term before he left in case the original squatters or others moved moved back in after he left. He is trying to sell it now.

Deub

I think you have it backwards. IMO you should first know where to buy (the area) and then you can look for an estate agent speaking english that could help you with the search. I wouldn’t trust an EA that says they are specialists for the entire country. How can they know every area in Italy?

Mic 1972

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011750#Comment_121011750

What a ridiculous statement. People buy and sell properties around the world all the time, without having to learn the local language. A smart estate agent who wants to maximize its reach will have no language barrier. English, of all languages, is also extremely common in Europe

Mic 1972

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058310328/buying-a-second-property-in-italy

If you are planning to rent out the property I suggest you buy in the north of Italy where rents are higher, especially Milan and Turin.

if instead you want to use it as a holiday place then you should chose the area according to your taste

suvigirl

There's a girl in Instagram, 'stephmylife ' she is irish and husband English, they bought in abruzzo in Italy, she has a few highlights about it, why they picked there, how the process went etc

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035548#Comment_121035548

Joke (noun): a thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter, especially a story with a funny punchline.  

That aside, if you are planning to live in someone else's country, one could do worse than trying to learn at least the basics of the language. Fluency may not be necessary, but an effort goes a long way.

Honey50000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035727#Comment_121035727

Cant believe how little English they speak in Italy almost none.

Deub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035964#Comment_121035964

Why would they need to? Especially in the less touristic area?

CelticRambler

what do you feel is the best first step towards buying.

Be very, very clear on why and where you want to buy. As others have said, when it comes to the realities of day-to-day life, "Italy" is a catch-all term for a huge number of different regions, each with their own customs, climate and local regulations. If you don't already know where you want to buy, and why, then at the very least, your first step towards buying should be to visit at least a dozen different areas at different times of the year and be able to say "I'd like to buy a house here, because ..."

One word of caution: if you're thinking of having this second property to provide a supplementary income, don't assume that property rentals work like they do in Ireland/GB. Living in France, I'm surrounded by British people who thought it would be great to "buy a second property in France" and for whom the dream turned sour because they didn't take account of the different approach. It has less to do with being able to speak the local language and more to being ripped off or fobbed off because they never really wanted to live in the area, just own a property here. I see the same in Spain and Italy.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035964#Comment_121035964

It depends on where you go, but yes, the uptake of English in Italy is quite low. English seems to be more difficult to learn for Italians than Italian is for English speaker, but that's just my experience. Also, if the need to learn English isn't there, why would someone learn it? In fact, I once met an elderly Italian man who did not even speak generic Italian. Rather, he only spoke the Neapolitan dialect, which I discovered is quite removed from my own (not great) Italian understanding.

It would be possible to live in one of the major cities without Italian, but it would be limiting. Also, why would one not take the opportunity to learn to speak some Italian? It's a fantastic language, and it opens up the door to all sorts of literature and texts on topics like art and history that simply aren't available in English.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035964#Comment_121035964

Why would you find this difficult to believe? In most of the world, little English is spoken.

About 5% of the world's population have English as a first language (and most of these live in just two countries, the US and India). Another 13% have some command of English as a second language. 82% have no functional English at all.

In Italy, about a third of people say they can speak a second language, and for about half of these the second language is English. That would suggest about 17% of the population have some functional English, but for many of these they learned English at school, and it's now fairly rusty. By and large, only Italians working in tourist-oriented business have much opportunity to use, and therefore retain or even improve, the English they learned at school.

Relevantly to this thread, estate agency is not a tourist-oriented business.

Most people who think about buying a property in Italy are considering a rural location. (Who wants a holiday apartment in Turin? Besides, there are plenty of cheap but attractive rural properties in Italy; not so many cheap, attractive urban properties.) But competnence in English is strongest in the cities of the north of Italy; weakest in the rural parts of central and southern Italy.

I know (and am madly jealous of) a couple of people who have second homes in Italian villages. They both say that it's desirable but not essential to have Italian when buying a home, but it's pretty much essential to have Italian if you want to live in it. The tiler, the plumber, the electrician, the guy who comes to sort out your broadband, the assistant in the hardware store or the grocery — they'll all have little or no English.

Honey50000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036819#Comment_121036819

It is the number 1 spoken language in the world and they are in the EU

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121037160#Comment_121037160

Ireland is the only native English speaking country in the EU, why should people living in Italy speak English because of that?

Honey50000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121037238#Comment_121037238

Happy to clear things up for you.

https://www.wordspath.com/english-speaking-countries-in-europe/

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121037272#Comment_121037272

Those are countries where people speak English as a second language.

Ireland is the only native English-speaking country in the EU.

I'm shocked sometimes by the amount of Irish people who think everyone should speak English, while most of them don't even speak Irish!

Deub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121037320#Comment_121037320

Or even a second language…

Honey50000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121037320#Comment_121037320

38 counties speak English as a first or second language and you are asking me why Italians should learn it.

suvigirl

A ridiculous statement and typical of the attitude I outlined.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121037328#Comment_121037328

I speak fluent North Side Dublinese in addition to Standard English :D. Story, bud!

Most younger Italians DO know English. It's less common among older generations, but even then, most of them will know at least a few words. No one need be under any illusion that Italians are not aware that English is the best second language to learn.

That said, Italian is the language spoken in Italy. In my humble opinion, if one wants to settle or even own property in another country, it is respectful to the natives to learn their language. Foreigners who come here generally do make the effort to learn English (I even met one Turkish guy who was mad enough to study Irish!), so the razor should cut both ways, again in my humble opinion.

herbalplants

While in Rome do what Romans do... Speak Italian for your day to day needs.

Finty Lemon

There are definitely no properties available in Tuscany. In fact, I would't even bother looking.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121037160#Comment_121037160

The number 1 language in the world is Mandarin Chinese, with 1.1 billion native speakers. English has just 373 million.

The number 1 language in the EU is German, the first language of 18% of EU citizens and an official language in all or part of 7 member states (relevantly, including Italy). English is the first language of 1% of EU citizens, and an official language in 2 member states.

It's true that English is the most widely spoken second language in the EU but, still, the majority of EU citizens cannot hold a simple conversation in English and, the further you get from the UK, the truer this becomes. The dominant second language in Central and Eastern Europe is German.

Ubbquittious

I know someone who bought a house in italy. Massive gaff for about 200k, would cost well over a million if you had a similar one here. Still good value to be had over there even now

Best to hire someone who will deal with the translation stuff. Didn't take years to buy, don't listen to the doom mongers

Honey50000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040870#Comment_121040870

Italy is in the EU who is going to be learning chinese in the EU

Victor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042170#Comment_121042170

People wanting to visit or trade with China?

Honey50000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042231#Comment_121042231

Ordinary citizens going to their day job are not exactly thinking about trading with China, as for visiting China not sure how many people do from the EU or why you would want to to be honest. Are you going to learn a language because you might go on a holiday sometime

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042312#Comment_121042312

Why do you expect Italians to learn English then?!!

Honey50000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042320#Comment_121042320

This is getting boring now try to keep up

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042433#Comment_121042433

Seriously? Are you just a wum

Honey50000

WUM dumb word if you mean wind up merchant no I already explained everything above if you cant keep up its not my fault

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042457#Comment_121042457

Do not post on this thread again

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042170#Comment_121042170

Not many. That's the point. Being the "number one language in the world" (which you claimed English was) is not in itself a reason for Italians to learn it.

In fact, everyone in Italy learns some English - it's a compulsory subject in both the primary and lower secondary curriculums. But most of them lose it fairly quickly, because they have little opportunity to use it, because English is not a widely-spoken language in Italy. Because why would it be?

Globally, English is a commonly-used language of international communication. But in Italy, it's just one of three languages that are so used, the others being German and French. All three are commonly studied as second languages in Italy, but the people who retain a second language into adulthood are predominantly those who work in international-facing jobs, which is a minority of the workforce. Italian busdrivers or shop assistants have no more reason to master English than British busdrivers or shop assistants have to master Italian.

Irish Stones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011840#Comment_121011840

There are no property taxes on the house you live in, in Italy.

Irish Stones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035964#Comment_121035964

That's true!

Irish Stones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038160#Comment_121038160

I'd advise you to avoid Rome at all costs!

Irish Stones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058310328/buying-a-second-property-in-italy

That's ironic, because I'm trying hard to leave this country (Italy) and move to Ireland because I consider this much better than Italy in so many ways. I always wonder what drags people from abroad to this dull land, and haven't found an exhaustive explanation yet.

Italian estate agents work locally, they rarely cover areas outside their location unless you are going to buy a luxury villa. So, when you find the area you like, you can contact the EA that sells the property you like. It is unlikely that the EA you find in the area that you like and who is selling the house that you like will speak English. It is not impossible, but very unlikely unless they deal with foreign customes on a regular basis. Expect they have a broken English if they do speak your language. It is way better if you find the assistance of an Italian friend who can translate for you during the visits and the meetings.

You make your offer to the EA and they forward it to the seller who might accept it or not.

Unlike Ireland, the final selling price will be always be lower than the asking price, this is probably the only advantage of living in this country. So, a house with an asking price of €300k will be more likely sold at €290k or even less.

The entire process, from when you start bidding to the signed contract, could take from a few weeks (sometimes days) to a few months, it rarely goes longer than 6 months.

Both the buyer and seller will pay the EA fee at the end of the process, only the buyer will pay the solicitor (notaio, here in Italy) which will be chosen by the buyer. This is where someone based in the area you like comes in help, they will suggest you the less expensive one.

There is no property tax on the house where you live in.

If you have more questions on this, please ask away.

Meanwhile, I keep looking for a suitable property in Ireland for me and my wife!

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101782#Comment_121101782

Very interesting response. Are you Italian? You are probably good person to advise the person who is looking to buy.