The failure to prevent the Omagh bombing.

political analyst

https://www.donegallive.ie/news/local-news/1268552/families-meet-inquiry-chair-as-search-for-omagh-bomb-justice-advances.html

Stanley McCombe, whose wife was killed in the Omagh bombing, said that the authorities knew that a bomb was prepared and they knew that a bomb was coming across the border as it was monitored to Aughnacloy. He asked why nobody knew where the bomb was going. He believes that the bomb could have been prevented from going into Omagh.

If the security forces had monitored it to Aughnacloy then why didn't they intercept it in that area? They wouldn't have needed to know the intended target to be able to track-down the car in which the bomb was being transported.

maccored

im from omagh and ive been saying this for years. the bus debot was always the spot to send people when there was a bomb scare. wide open area with no buildings etc near it. market st isnt very wide and has tall buildings on both sides. a bit weird thats where people were sent and thats exactly where the bomb was. People in omagh have been talking about this for years. the RUC at the time werent happy that they were going to lose their danger money if there was peace. the whole thing stinks to high heavens.

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120973888#Comment_120973888

RUC still not happy, strong suspicion that certain rogue elements with links to Orange Order behind recent data leak

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120973888#Comment_120973888

The people killed was the fault of the Real IRA. Nobody else.

Making up crazy stories that the RUC sent people walking into a bomb so they could keep their danger money is ridiculous. Especially when the confusion was because the warnings gave the wrong information.

Who plants a bomb in the middle of a town on a Saturday morning? sick f**ks wanted to kill women and children.

As usual some supporters trying to blame everyone else but the bombers!!

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974333#Comment_120974333

Indeed. Michael Gallagher has made it clear that the bombers are the only people responsible for the atrocity.

According to the article on the following link, the case has been dogged allegations that the security forces, in an effort to protect informants, inadvertently let the bomb slip through the net. Those allegations don't make sense because informants can be protected by taking them into custody and giving them new identities. Obviously, as is stated in the OP, Stanley McCombe believes that there was an opportunity to prevent the bombing. To ask why such an opportunity was not taken is not to dilute the bombers' culpability.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0813/1399314-omagh-bomb-25-years/

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120973888#Comment_120973888

Really think about what you are suggesting.

The police command structure decided on the day, ‘how can we get as many innocent people killed as possible?’, ‘let’s direct the men women and children to the area we think the bomb is in’. ‘Our own family members or family members of other officers may be in the crowd, but sure our danger money is more important.’

This really does take the biscuit

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058309124/the-failure-to-prevent-the-omagh-bombing

Sure because the authorities had only one terrorist threat to monitor.... even now the authorities are probably monitoring a couple of hundred or even more such situations and every so often one is going to slip through. It's very sad and unfortunate, but expecting the authorities will catch every looper intent on committing violence on the public is not realistic. And in hindsight there will always have been missed opportunities that could have prevented the atrocity from happening.

Musicrules

I highly doubt the investigation will lead anywhere as we all know about the British system and covering up. The bombers were of course responsible but the question people want answered is why was it let happen. People shouldn't be afraid of the truth or try to block it.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974411#Comment_120974411

Well, informants can be protected by giving them new identities, but obviously once you do that they aren't informants any more, so your source of intelligence dries up. (Plus, it's a fairly **** thing to expose your own informants, and it makes it less likely that future informants will come forward.)

This is a dilemma that intelligence agencies face all the time. When the codebreakers at Bletchley Park cracked the German Enigma code, they couldn't act on all the information they intercepted because, if they did, the Germans would realise pretty quickly that the Enigma code was broken and they would stop using it. The British needed them to keep using it. In a (successful) attempt to achieve this, the British failed to act on, or to pass along to their Allies, a significant amount of the information they obtained by monitoring Enigma traffic.

And they couldn't just act on the big stuff and let the small stuff go — the Germans would have spotted that pattern. So steps that might have saved significant numbers of Allied lives were, on many occasions, deliberately not taken.

The British faced variants of this problem all the time during the Troubles in NI. (For that matter, so did the IRA.)

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974958#Comment_120974958

The police command structure may not have been aware of the entire operation, but parts of the security apparatus clearly were.

The fact that it was aimed at a largely nationalist town may have been a factor, I am sure greater attempts would have been made to stop the bomb going off in Bangor or Ballymena.

And is it not widely acknowledged that the security service had a role in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings in 1974.

These can all be true without absolving the RIRA perpetrators of blame.

g g murpho

A load of baloney and a middle finger to the people killed / injured and their families.

Simply scum.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975083#Comment_120975083

This post raises more questions than answers.

Did the RUC do a role take on entry into the town that morning to check the percentages on the people and religion?

Why was the Real IRA setting off a bomb in a "nationalist town" then?

The bombers parked the car in wrong location, the warning's gave the wrong information and based on that the RUC moved people towards what they thought was a safe location.

Also for the weeks and months before Sinn Fein and the IRA told everyone that would listen the Real IRA was all talk with nothing behind it.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975297#Comment_120975297

I think you should support a full investigation and the full truth to emerge. How much did the British security services know? Did they let it happen and why? The victims families deserve to know the full facts.

blanch152

At the end of the day, what happened is that some "good republicans" decided to plant a bomb and kill people. At any time right up to detonation, they could have stopped themselves, didn't need gardai or RUC or anyone else to stop them, just themselves and their consciences.

However, in the great tradition of "good republicanism", they didn't stop themselves, like their psychopathic comrades of the previous three decades, they pressed the buttons or whatever, and detonated the bombs.

That's what happened. No sugarcoating with the RUC/Gardai could have stopped them, they planted the bombs and pressed the buttons that led to all those people being killed. That is what has been lost in all of this.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975701#Comment_120975701

I don't know that that has been lost, Blanch. You're making a point that several other posters in the thread - political analyst, ZookeeperDub, Jizique - have already made, and so far as I can see nobody has put the contrary view. There isn't a whisper from anyone on any side of this thread that any failings of the security services, whatever they may have been, provide any kind of defence, excuse, exculpation or mitigation for the terrorists who planned and executed this bombing. But that doesn't mean that, if there were any failings, they don't need to be identified and addressed.

mikethecop

SHinnerbots blaming the ruc for something that ira trained scumbags using former ira equipment ?

ffs lads its not even subtle anymore, ye cant rewrite history with the lies people still remember what happened

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974242#Comment_120974242

For what motive? Where is the suspicion coming from?

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975405#Comment_120975405

The first response on this thread is one of the reasons why these investigations end up been worse for the families. Some people use it to muddy the water, so to speak.

It seems the recommendation is the inquiry will find out if the bombing could have been stopped. Im sure if they have an inquiry the finding will be that potentially it could have been stopped but that is hindsight.

I would fully support the PIRA and the rest who knew the people who carried out the bombing and refused to help the polices services would finally help put whoever is left in jail. Now that would be a great result for the families

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976231#Comment_120976231

What do you mean muddy the waters? The truth is the truth. The victims families deserve to know that, no matter where it comes from. We don't know how involved the security forces were, was it an informant directly involved? We know the British forces didn't have much issue with killing innocent people in the North but what role did they play in the Omagh bombing if any?

A full, open investigation is needed but we know that's probably unlikely based on previous knowledge.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976607#Comment_120976607

It would be much much better if the people who know who carried out these bombs would testify in court and ensure that the "good republicans" who carried out this atrocity were put behind bars.

Similarly, those who bombed so many other people are still out there walking around. Wouldn't it be great for society if one of the PIRA chiefs turned State evidence and ensured that all those victims got justice?

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975009#Comment_120975009

The difference is that the survival of tens of millions of people in Britain and the chances of eventual victory against the Nazis depended on the secrecy of the Bletchley codebreakers' work.

If the Omagh bomb had been intercepted in the vicinity of Aughnacloy then the Real IRA probably wouldn't have been able to carry-out an attack that would have killed as many people as they actually did in Omagh. In the aftermath of interception of that bomb, the worst-case scenario would have been that another attack in Northern Ireland would have caused a much lower death toll.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974979#Comment_120974979

Nobody expects the authorities to prevent every attack. However, no other such situation in the first half of August of 1998 would have caused as many deaths as the Omagh bombing did. Even the LVF wasn't capable of killing that many people in one attack.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976875#Comment_120976875

That's the point. We don't know who knew. It could have been a British agent involved. The Real IRA were heavily infiltrated, surely the security forces knew who was involved. The question is how much knowledge did they have and did they actually let it happen. Knowing some of the heinous murders committed by the armed forces, would it be beyond them to have a part to play in this bomb for their own gain?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976947#Comment_120976947

Not necessarily true. Let us say that the bomb was intercepted and a number of people arrested and convicted. The mole (if there was one) would be clearly identifiable and the leaks from the IRA would have stopped. That may have meant that in the worst case scenario, there would have been several more bombs and many many more people dead from them over the following months and years.

At the end of the day, without the intent of psychopaths to kill people in the name of an ism, we wouldn't have had anyone dead.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976990#Comment_120976990

What gain?

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977000#Comment_120977000

Any support for the Real IRA was basically finished after this bomb. The armed forces had suffered numerous casualties in the troubles, they wanted out. The British government wanted out. A Real IRA with very little support would assist that.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976994#Comment_120976994

I understand your point. It's just that a prominent issue in the discussion of terrorist attacks (especially in the Troubles) is of the bombs that caused the highest death tolls. The Omagh bomb caused a much higher death toll than any one of the bombs that exploded in Dublin 1974. I can't imagine any other town in Northern Ireland where inaccurate and contradictory warnings would have caused a higher death toll, i.e. a warning-call mentioning Main Street in Omagh even though Omagh never had a street called "Main Street".

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976607#Comment_120976607

I referenced the first respond on this thread for an example of muddy the water. The truth is not what some people are interested in

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977036#Comment_120977036

Yet we have people on here blaming the RUC.

Also the people who carried out the bombing are still been protected today. So you say the Real IRA has very little support? if that was the case why don't these individuals come forward and finally bring this criminals to justice

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977078#Comment_120977078

You're also missing the point. The people who carried out the bombing may be protected but by who? The British security forces know who carried out the bombings. Was it one of their agents? Why have they blocked progress on this case? I think you are looking in the wrong direction when trying to see who wants the full truth to remain silenced.

bucketybuck

Yet we have people on here blaming the RUC.

Its embarrassing how many people in this thread can't wrap their fuzzy heads around what is really a very simple concept.

Police collusion has never absolved the bombers or killers of blame. And nobody said that it did.

A drunk driver is clearly to blame for hitting and killing a child, but I'd still like to know why a guard waved him through a checkpoint earlier...

Asking if the police colluded in this instance is a valid question but all some people can fart out is "But what about the bombers". No wonder these forums are dying.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977039#Comment_120977039

The warning's are just rubbish from the PIRA. PIRA called a Samaritans in Liverpool and said bomb was beside a boots. So they cleared the Liverpool Boots area. Bomb goes off in Boots in Warrington.

Guess who the PIRA blamed? The Police

blanch152

A

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977175#Comment_120977175

There is an even simpler concept that people are not grasping. The bombers carry the responsibility, and there are people out there who claim to be "good republicans" who know who they and other bombers are, but have never presented themselves to the police to give evidence so that these bombers can be convicted. Why waste time looking at what the police did or didn't do in some side-effect, when we should be going after the bombers.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974333#Comment_120974333

Agreed. But the RUC are responsible for not ensuring the safe evacuation of the people from that area. That failure can't be overlooked. The RUC didn't plant this bomb. They weren't in collusion with the RIRA. They only colluded with Loyalist paramilitaries.

Their reaction was a serious failure that day though.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977248#Comment_120977248

How could they ensure the safe evacuation when the psychopaths gave them the wrong information?

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977179#Comment_120977179

Obviously, the Provos were bad at geography at school as well as being evil if they couldn't tell the difference between Liverpool and Warrington.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977226#Comment_120977226

Jesus christ, how can you come along and just repeat the very thing that I said was embarrassing to begin with.

Unflushable Turd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977179#Comment_120977179

And their supporters claim it was a justified target as the PIRA were engaging in “economic warfare”.

It isn’t difficult to see why no one has been brought to justice for either atrocity.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976231#Comment_120976231

Doesn't everything end up like that

The UK voting for Brexit for example because of the confusion

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975083#Comment_120975083

I really feel sad for people who believe stuff like this

“The fact that it was aimed at a largely nationalist town may have been a factor, I am sure greater attempts would have been made to stop the bomb going off in Bangor or Ballymena.”

there is zero doubt that there were far more ‘successful’ bombings in predominantly Protestant towns than catholic towns, and still we get comments like this.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977248#Comment_120977248

All the information is available very easily and burned into most people's memories who lived during that awful time. The facts would disagree with you.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977460#Comment_120977460

We get told that the PIRA and the Real IRA only got created to protect the nationalist community.

The question has to be asked, if the PIRA and the Real IRA was created to protect the nationalist community, why did they want to bomb a nationalist town? bombing a nationalist town during a time to achieve the highest killing of the community they supposedly wanted to protect?

downcow

Is there anyone thinks that the ruc should not have used informers to infiltrate loyalist and republican paramilitaries? I can’t imagine there is - and I guess that means people know that informers will be given some cover.

i have absolutely no idea if mistakes were made that day. But what I am absolutely sure about is that if they were, then they were definitely mistakes and to suggest there was any intention from anyone in authority that shoppers would die that day, is absolute tosh

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977493#Comment_120977493

Agree totally. And also why they killed more nationalists than any other grouping in ni?

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977174#Comment_120977174

No Im not missing the point. Excellent example of trying to muddy the water

The relatives of the dead and injured wanted the people who carried out the bombing to go to jail. The PIRA and Sinn Fein have protected those people for years. This is not a secret.

Would the bombers getting put into jail be better for the families?

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977520#Comment_120977520

Who carried out the bombings and were they British agents? You may be uncomfortable with the truth emerging, the British security services may be uncomfortable with the truth emerging, politicians etc may be uncomfortable but the victims families want the truth, not what makes certain people comfortable.

Maybe ask Michael Gallagher about it and you could learn a bit about what the victims families want or educate yourself by looking up some of facts of the case, the report in the early 2000's, Kevin Fulton etc.

My god, 25 years tomorrow. I can remember exactly what I was doing on the Saturday when I heard the news about that horrific, devastating atrocity (on the bus home from college job in a music shop). Not six months following the GFA. After such a sense of positivity, the despair and heartbreak was something else. One of the worst days ever.

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977501#Comment_120977501

I don't think the ruc needed to infiltrate any loyalist gangs, given that they were likely meeting weekly down the lodge

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977675#Comment_120977675

The attempts to excuse the psychopaths who carried this out are sickening. These sadists were "good republicans".

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977675#Comment_120977675

Are you trying to say the bombing was carried out by British agents?

The families wanted the bombers to go to jail, are you trying to say they are happy they are still free?

It seems you are more interested in jumping around that point and trying to do exactly what I said would happen. Muddy the water.

Fire out as much nonsense as possible so the discussion about the actual bombers and the people protecting them will be forgotten about.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977916#Comment_120977916

Are you saying Michael Gallagher is trying to excuse those who killed his son?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977948#Comment_120977948

Are you Michael Gallagher? Do you speak for him?

The onus is on those good republicans who know who did this, who can give evidence in court, to step forward and do so.