Is Anti-social Behaviour with Irish youths Worse?

Electric Gypsy

Just thinking about what happened to the American who was beaten by a gang of youths in Dublin earlier in the week. It made me ask the question, who do you fear most when you are out on the street? As a man in my physical prime it's sort of feels strange admitting that it's 15 year olds who I'm most afraid of. They don't need a reason to cause someone grief. I haven't been abroad in a while but so maybe it just seems this way. Maybe they've gotten worse everywhere in the last few decades.

There is a big difference in maturity with teens between 15 and 18 even in the worst communities. As a bus driver I noticed this recently. I had a bunch a lads on the bus about between 18 and 20 get on the bus who looked local to the neighbourhood. Then some 15 years olds got on at the next stop (also local looking) and it wasn't long before they changed seats to go next to a girl they didn't know and start causing her trouble. I was wondering if the older lads might put some manners on them but they didn't. Ironically it's the customers who pay for a child's fare that I'm most likely to end up reporting an incident about. 

When I talk with some of the other bus drivers (the ones who insist on not tolerating any nonsense) I would never hear them say that they experience fear. And I get why they wouldn't admit this, but they must do when it's those lads who throw stones at the bus. And if I refuse to drive the bus when one of these sorts refuses to pay, no other passengers would be taking the initiative to put pressure on them to get off. Is this the elephant in the room in our society? We're always told about things we should be careful of but we're never advised to "not to mess with kids". I could picture myself potentially encountering trouble with another adult when out and about, but if such an attack was completely unprovoked (and not drug or alcohol fueled), then I would assume it would have to be from a bunch of 15 year olds!

And given that all teens dress in tracksuits these days it's harder to tell the tugs from the regular teens. Sometimes I pull up to bus stops with a bit of fear in me when I see the tracksuits from a distance, but then when they actually get on they might be just harmless kids. Funny!

It's strange too to think that the guards avoid issues involving teens, or at least that's what I hear. I can understand why they'd rather deal with adults who can't out run them. This side of reality is never portrayed on TV... it's usually some gang in the 20s or 30s who are causing the trouble.

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058306278/is-anti-social-behaviour-with-irish-youths-worse

And we are all supposed to lose our cars and use public transport?

One eyed Jack

It made me ask the question, who do you fear most when you are out on the street?

People who don’t pick up after their dogs.

Fox Tail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120891371#Comment_120891371

Tis a valid point.

I certianly wouldnt be getting the Red Line Luas daily and would take the car if i were on that route to work/town.

If i had to pay for parking, I'd pay for parking.

Fox Tail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120891890#Comment_120891890

Poophobia is a powerful thing. ;)

Fox Tail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058306278/is-anti-social-behaviour-with-irish-youths-worse

Great insight!

From talking with friends, alot of people with jobs are afraid to get involved with kids because the perception is that the kid can so easily frame it as the adult that intervenes is the aggressor.

Its the adult what done it guv.

if you stand up for the girl on the bus and even lay a finger on one of those kids, as an adult you could be done for assault.

You could then lose your job, you cant travel to the US and you lose out on family holidays, work trips and so on for the rest of your life.

So many negative consequences from what was in essence, an act of good will.

Conversely, the kids causing the trouble have nothing to lose as they are already convicted to the hilt and free to act with abandon, or so it certainly seems.

As they will doubtless be back on that same bus next week. Still thinking about paying for that ticket or behaving themselves. Sometime. Maybe.

My advice, adult to adult?

Just take the car.

riffmongous

It's honestly hard to know if things are really worse or not, things are bad for sure but can you ever think of a time when they weren't bad? The beating of that American man and the murders of the Mongolian lady a few years ago are pretty shocking, but for me the most shocking casual murder happened back in 2008 (2 Polish men stabbed in the head with a screwdriver after a row outside a chipper with some teenagers).

Closed as this is before the courts.

mod

thread reopened, with some caveats.

There is to be no discussion of cases currently before the courts.

If mod instructions to refrain from discussing cases before the courts at present are ignored the thread will be closed and offending posters will receive hefty sanctions.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120891959#Comment_120891959

Make sure you have witnesses and make sure they throw the first punch - then it's self defense. After that, just don't go overboard and beat the living **** out of the guy (nice, but that's the point when the courts WILL turn on you for being a nasty adult).

The other way of handing lit is distraction. Start laughing and tell jokes. Confuse the **** out of them until the next stop. Then you just yell at the assorted crowds "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??!" and make your exit.

Yes, it's getting worse but that's due to the change in society.

thomil

Controversial take from my side, but how do we expect young people to stick on the straight and narrow when all the so-called "pillars of society" (political & business leaders, media personalities, etc.) seem to be getting away with everything under the sun? Whilst I was raised differently, I can't blame people for thinking "why should I bother with following the rules? No one else seems to give a shite!" Hate to say it, but unless there's a complete "rip & replace" of the political leadership in this country, right down to the city/county councillor level, any solution to the anti-social issue will only be a sticking plaster/bandage.

z80CPU

^^^^ That and the pervasive "it's not what you know it's who you know" mindset

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Well this is it - people say "they have no respect!" - but devils's advocate will ask: who exactly should they be respecting and why?

hayrabit

they don't need to show anyone ANY respect, imo

refraining from 'disrespect' would be a start.. But why would they when they can get away with it, and go on to do it again and again and againe...

it's in the post - someone's gonna go stone cold postal someday, and be the most villified person in the country 😓

gotta keep the mayheme ongoinge where ye plebbes reside - can't be having them living , walking around and going to work in a relaxed environment 😒

being a layaboute, i aint minded to leave us free house muche on account of the feral savages abroade

hope one day to hear on t'News that some scumbagge got his head kicked in so bad that a DNA teste would be needed to identify the cadaverous scrote 😁

should that happen , then we can expecte the usual: "calling for calme etc, etc, " , on account of the scummer/s' equally feral rellies looking for, well it wouldn't be 'revenge' ; but , ya , the feral rellies wouldst likely engage in mayhemme completely absent sanction.. 😓

YEP , if a scummer gets ended (righteously) by a minding his own businesse individual , the media'll be going into overdrive to portray the actual victim as the worst in the world

and "antisocial" : a shít and simultaneously great word - depending on who ya are... if Anto kicks the sheet out of a pensioner in his house in Finglas or Ballymun (somewhere like that) , then, yep, "Antisocial"

if Bruton has to merely stay in her car for three to four hours: "Serious Crime"

"antisocial" - sounds like a worde what might've utilised in timese oldene when Jimmy didn't doff his cap to his local lairde 😏

THIS SHÍT THAT'S GOINGE ON AINT "ANTISOCIAL" - IT'S CRIMINAL FFS !!

and that is all i have to say about thatte

#notalllayabouts#notalllifetimeWelfarerecipients

:)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120895693#Comment_120895693

refraining from 'disrespect' would be a start..

To a certain extent I agree with you here, but I can't help thinking it's just sweeping it under the carpet.

Take for example the ones drug addicts who just want to get wasted/high and stay out of as many people's way as possible. While it's an improvement, it's only an improvement until they run out of drugs and start getting angry.

At that point, you've got two possibities: the coke/heroin addicts who probably WILL go on to murder a pensioner in order to pay for a fix, but by that stage it's too late; and the ones who just want to smoke/drink and withdraw from society, and there's an argument for them becoming a ticking time bomb as well as that much drugs that early can't be good for a teenager's mental health.

What about looking at the issue for a different perspective. There are young adults who despite coming from dreadful background and situations do well so why not research why this happenes then try and provide similar supports to every young person, in other work looks for what works and not so much research and emphasis on why it happens.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120897767#Comment_120897767

Oooh, careful - you're flirting woth socialism there - natives not gonna live that (even if it did help fix the problem)!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120898107#Comment_120898107

However the research could also find that it's down to the individuals personality, they might be more pro social and have less 'issues' choose what friends to surround themselves with don't resent school and education, have family that despite being poor and caoitc are not addicts and are there for them.

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120895221#Comment_120895221

I don't think these young thugs are even aware of these pillars of society are. They probably thought Leo was the taoiseach when Michael Martin was in charge... that is if they even know who Leo is. Who's a pillar of society that has got away with everything under the sun? Boris Johnson and Donald Trump. Some of these young tugs might have heard of both those men, but it's a big leap to assume that it's influencing them into behaving badly. Lets say if someone like Trump commits financial fraud... well then it's unlikely that's this is going to somehow influence a youngster to go out and kick someone's head in. That crime is in a different league. The most corrupt politicians don't set out to hurt people for the sake of their own amusement. That's the difference! You would have made a better argument referring to Conor McGregor and the UFC, or maybe TikTok, but what you're saying seems almost like a red herring.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120898174#Comment_120898174

You're talking equality there. People don't like equality. They like knowing there's at least one person lower down on the ladder than they are. Someone to look down on.

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120891371#Comment_120891371

It's fine during the day. These things only ever really happen at night... sometimes the evening too though. It's all down to what bus route it is. As a passenger (as opposed to a driver) you're a lot less likely to encounter any of it, and even if you do, it probably wouldn't involve you. If you stay on the lower deck you'll be a lot safer.

dxhound2005

It's not as bad as it was back in the 1970's. Except girl youths are worse now.

Electric Gypsy

@Fox Tail if you stand up for the girl on the bus and even lay a finger on one of those kids, as an adult you could be done for assault. You could then lose your job, you cant travel to the US and you lose out on family holidays, work trips and so on for the rest of your life.

No I wouldn't lose my job. I thought in that way too when I first started out at it. I know two inspectors who beat up passengers during their time as drivers. Even myself, I physically pushed a teenager off the bus one night... I'd have been taking a lot of stress home with me that night if I hadn't! Another time I had to catch a youngster by the ear in bluffing that I'd drag him off the bus if he didn't leave. However other times I have deemed it as being unsafe to get out of my cab.

In reality anyone can get away with laying a finger on anyone else (assuming there's nothing sexual about it). It's not impossible that I could get in trouble for getting physical with a minor, but you can always tell by the look of them what they're style of revenge would be... and those lads wouldn't be going the legal route, nor would they even know that route exists!

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120891971#Comment_120891971

I don't know. I just remember the odd few times I've hung around the street with my friends at the age of fifteen, and not really feeling we were intimidating people, and like it wouldn't be tolerate if we were. Granted I didn't have a bad upbringing.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120909143#Comment_120909143

Not really feeling you were intimidating people? I think that points to possible bad behaviour. And of course it was tolerated, because nobody would confront a group like that.

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120897767#Comment_120897767

As a matter of fact I have been researching peer reviewed literature on this very subject for the last decade, as well as travelling the country setting up youth clubs and interviewing convicted youths. I have also persuaded well known public figures to try and help these youths. After all this work I think I've earned my right to ask the question in the thread title, which is essentially the same thing as asking (as you say) 'why this happens'! I'm pretty sure I know the answer to the thread title; that's why the U/S embassy gave a warning about safety in Ireland's capital, naming specific locations. So the question in the thread title is not meant to be taken literally. Would it hurt to either answer, or say "I got nothing"?

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120909175#Comment_120909175

confront a group like what?

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120898279#Comment_120898279

What do you recall from the 70s?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120895221#Comment_120895221

These "pillars of society" are usually uninspiring, money-grubbing losers. Even when very near the levers of power they seem to have no ambition greater than another pension or another 100k. Poor stuff. That said they don't beat, maim and kill people on the street.

The only way out is to demand honesty from political leaders. Something which most Irish people don't do.

Clever-cynical people mostly just passively go along with official BS and collect a salary

whisky_galore

Not fixing the metaphorical "broken windows" in less well off areas, having a soft-headed judiciary and having a soft, underfunded and understaffed police force got us where we are now.

It's taken an assault on a US tourist to embarrass the govt into at least looking at this. Anyone else but one of our tourism cash cows and it would be ignored.

whisky_galore

I do think people here are used to soft policing, esp when Irish act the maggot and attempt to squirm out of trouble Down Under, the "ah but Guard" line and the Gaah connections not working and finding themselves in an Aussie prison cell.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120909390#Comment_120909390

Not like that in parts of America. I saw a new video on YouTube today of gangs taking over the streets in Seattle, and climbing and jumping up and down on police cars.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120909228#Comment_120909228

Larger numbers of young people congregating on the streets. Usually with a gang leader who egged them on. They probably thought they were just having a laugh, but it would have been intimidating for some people. Low level stuff like jumping up on garden walls, shouting and roaring, and doing graffiti.

The numbers diminished as the internet came into more homes. A lot more of the newer generations stayed indoors playing computer games. Now they are back out in more numbers, with portable internet devices becoming the norm.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120909195#Comment_120909195

This is a very complex and complicated answer we have evolved into a society in the wealthy West we have abandoned religion and family as a constant behavior combined with the fact that it is now nearly impossible to make a decent life with unskilled labor. An amount of very alienated young people follows.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120895221#Comment_120895221

if that is the case then kids (or people in general) dont have basic ethics/morals

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120909760#Comment_120909760

Rekigion is dead and long may it stay that way. Countries that never had a strong relationship with religion seem to be doing okay - I'd agree with you about the sense of family, but what can you do? - you can't force families to spend time together.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120909764#Comment_120909764

My controversial take - they're bored. It's that simple.

Quitelife

Was in Holidays in Spain recently, in a few town/city centres, never once saw groups of youths loitering & felt perfectly safe.

Contrast that to Irish City/town centres!

Weak Judges, too few guards & too many WOKE crowd making excuses for scumm in Ireland is the big difference

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120951842#Comment_120951842

You mean like in the wolfpack case? Judge too weak or too woke?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Manada_rape_case

I think you'll find Spain has it's own problems with anti-social behavious amongst its youth and is not doing anything better than we are, stricter, woker or otherwiase.

A brief holiday is not really a representative timeframe.

tesla_newbie

We never really had a strong tradition of good behaviour for civic reasons like other countries , now that Catholicism ( and associated fear ) is dead , we have problems as a consequence

some other countries were kept in check by another authoritarian system ( communism) and they too have major problems since it’s demise

Quitelife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120951871#Comment_120951871

<mod snip>

warning - personal attack

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952238#Comment_120952238

If all you have is personal attacks - and inaccurate ones at that - then you don't have much faith in your point.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120897767#Comment_120897767

Speaking from my own experience, the reason a few of us avoided jail and drugs was the desire not to disappoint our parents. our parents wanted us to be good. We all started out wanting to be good. But as we grew up, for at least 70% of the people in my class their parents would have been more dissapointed that they got caught selling drugs or robbing than the fact they sold drugs or robbed. And that wasnt even an inner city council estate.v And once they had been through the courts a couple of times it was normal life for them after that.

Badly Drunk Boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120951842#Comment_120951842

So the youth of Spain wait until they come over here before they go around in packs? I'm not saying that the packs of Spanish students you'd see around are dangerous, but to some people, they might be intimidating. More of a nuisance to most, though, blocking footpaths/shops.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952425#Comment_120952425

what are you getting at exactly? I really don’t see how foreign students, some of them probably don’t even speak English, they know only the people they arrived over with.. so obviously they hang out together as a group?

what are they supposed to do? It wouldn’t be very smart for a young teenager to roam around a strange town or city in a foreign country by themselves..

How can you correlate that to them being in groups that size at home as well? It just boggles the mind

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058306278/is-anti-social-behaviour-with-irish-youths-worse

Frankly , as a disabled man I’d be petrified to take the Luas from what I’ve seen on it in the past.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120951838#Comment_120951838

so being bored is a reason to go around and act like a POS?

i was bored plenty of times when i was growing up, at no point did i think that was an excuse to cause trouble

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120951838#Comment_120951838

It’s pretty difficult in this day and age to be bored I think. About 600 TV channels, affordable games consoles, outlets for sports, entertainment etc….

it takes very little effort in this day and age , not to be bored…. Connectivity to others is as easy as you like. In person or online….

Accessibility to entertainment is super attainable and mostly cheap.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120954585#Comment_120954585

A reason, yes - but NOT an excuse.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120954931#Comment_120954931

If you like digital entertainement, sure - but not everyone does.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120955073#Comment_120955073

My post wasn’t limited to digital…. 🙂

I included ” outlets for sports, entertainment etc…”

where I am now …. Within 15 minutes..

soccer clubs x2

Gaa clubs x 4

tennis clubs x 3

pitch & putt x2

public golf x2

gyms ( juvenile access ) swimming, art, scouting ( which is apparently cool again, but an option either way)

cinemas,

you couldn’t ask for more. So if you end up being a toe rag around here, or anywhere in a city it’s on you…. Certainly not due to a lack of amenities or no variety thereof. 😉 toerags and their families / peers need to stop making feeble excuses….