330e Battery out of warranty

coil1985

Anyone ever buy a 330e or even any PHEV when the battery was already out of warranty? Car Im currently looking at, the battery is out of warranty by 20,000kms and just wondering if I should avoid it.

kirving

Search my posts. Avoid a 330e out of warranty.

The issue is not actually the technology (failure is probably rare) - it's that BMW lock down the battery via software so it's impossible for third parties to work on it. It is not possible for a battery from a crashed car to be put into another car.

BMW quoted me around €4k to replace a single module (of five), but with no guarantee that once opened, the bill would not jump to €8k. If I didn't pay that, they would not re-assemble the bad battery, and would leave me with no car.

Due to the A/C running form the HV battery, lack of an alternator, and some other things, it is not possible to reprogram the car to run without the HV battery. You are totally at the mercy of BMW if you have an issue.

coil1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120888409#Comment_120888409

Jaysus, thats a bit hardcore. I was looking at the extended warranty (which I can avail of) but of course that doesn't cover the battery. Was this a BMW garage local to you?

bazz26

OP, would you not just consider a less complex petrol 330i?

https://www.carsireland.ie/3418076

coil1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120888751#Comment_120888751

Maybe, not as much choice in that area though it seems. Also, are they harder to move on in the future?

bazz26

How long do you plan to keep the car? I think you need to weigh up the potential future costs. Having a large bill to potentially repair/replace a faulty hybrid system versus taking a slightly larger hit on depreciation on a more conventional but less popular petrol car. With the extra complexity of a plug in hybrid system does your mileage/usage really mitigate the risks versus a more conventional petrol car?

I think a used petrol car will still be appealing to many people for a good few years yet whereas these 30km/40km range PHEVs will date alot quicker now that the latest ones are starting to get close to nearly double that range. Similar to first generation Nissan Leaf EVs with a range of only 100km are now obsolete and really only appealing as an occasionally used second car.

The other alternative is to go for something like the tried and tested Toyota/Lexus non plug in hybrids. Very reliable with lower maintenance costs.

For example:

https://www.carsireland.ie/3396575

https://www.carsireland.ie/3412216

kanuseeme

I sold my 330e, 2017 70000km, just got a 2 series phev, very happy with both, I would probably sing a different tune if the battery gave trouble, Its a popular car and a lot of them on autotrader, donedeal with high miles, I would love to know the % of failures.

Doing some searching on repairs I came across this crowd,

https://vitronix.ie/home/hybrid-battery/

they rebuild the most common types of hybrids, also Mitsubishi and BMW, prices start at 3200 euro for BMWs 2012-2018 .

coil1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890389#Comment_120890389

I spotted their site yesterday. I was wondering why the BMW batteries only go up to 2018?

coil1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120889801#Comment_120889801

These are fair questions. This buying a car is a mind field. One of the garages came back to me an offered a two year warranty on the 330e battery. Too bad I had already ruled that car out for different reasons. The garage I was very close to buying the 330e didn't offer any warranty but tbh I don't blame them if BMW aren't.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120891826#Comment_120891826

New models with bigger batteries in 2019? Maybe they don't have the knowledge or experience with the newer versions or most are still under warranty.

coil1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120893327#Comment_120893327

Ye maybe that's it.

beetlebailey

Just seeing this post now and it’s got me a little concerned……I’m going to look at a 2020 330e tomorrow at an independent garage…..no mention of warranty regarding battery.

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/34162938

coil1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120910526#Comment_120910526

Should be ok. To quote BMW: "battery is warranted for up to six years from the date of first registration, or up to 100,000 Kilometres whichever occurs first."

More here:

https://www.bmw.ie/en/topics/owners/service-workshop/warranties/bmw-phev-warranty-guidelines.html

beetlebailey

That car has 70k on the clock so I can only do 30k more before warranty is void and I plan on keeping for 3 years.

On a side note the description mentions new alloys and aftermarket exhaust. Thinking about giving it a miss €39k is a lot to shell out to have have warranty/reliability concerns.

coil1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120911215#Comment_120911215

One of the cars I was looking at was 126,000k so it was already out of warranty. I couldn't take the risk in the end.

Although there seems to be a lot of them for sale that are already out of warranty. I have no idea what the failure rate is.

beetlebailey

Yep it could be fine but if l was unfortunate enough to spend the guts of €40k and have battery problems and a huge bill I might aswell pack my bags and go because having to listen to the missus would be far worse to deal with. I had a 3 series about 15 years ago and it was a lemon which she still reminds of……..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120911337#Comment_120911337

If you are that concerned about the battery (not really sure why because they seem to be very reliable and fail very rarely) then don't buy the car. I have the 5 series version and haven't even contemplated a battery failure

User1998

I think some people are being too cautious when it comes to hybrids and EV’s. I’d imagine catastrophic engine failure is just as common and as expensive to fix.

I know theres one poster here who had issues, but what are the chances? A lot less than 1 in 100 I’d imagine

coil1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120911599#Comment_120911599

2020? How many kms were on it when you bought it?

coil1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120911614#Comment_120911614

The only thing I would say there is that the engine can be covered by BMW's extended warranty, the battery is not covered. But I agree that the rate of failure is probably low, even though we don't know for sure.

beetlebailey

Fair point, wasn’t concerned about battery at all until I read comments here on boards……..

Any thoughts on this one?Are those new alloys actually bmw alloys?

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/34162938

bazz26

Those do not look like genuine BMW alloy wheels and I'd put good money on the tyres being some cheaper unknown brand too. The car also has an aftermarket black splitter on the bottom of the front bumper, a rear boot spoiler and m3 style exterior mirror caps if your into those sort of things. The rest of the car is fine in that the exterior Portimao Blue and Cognac interior leather are one of the better colour combinations available imo. It also the upgraded Harman/Kardon premium surround sound speaker system and head up display which were part of a Technology options pack.

beetlebailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120911987#Comment_120911987

Yeah I thought something was a bit off with the styling…The alloys and splitter are putting me off as I generally prefer the stock look .Pity as of all the garages I contacted, he was offering me the best cost to change price.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120911664#Comment_120911664

It's a 2018, I bought it last month. 36km on it but I didn't even look into battery warranty I just wanted one with low mileage

coil1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120912164#Comment_120912164

Cool, best of luck with it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120888409#Comment_120888409

Essentially the lesson here is do not search your posts. You experienced something that literally nobody else else has and you are trying to get people to not buy a car based on your 1 off experience

If you don't have 8 grand cash to spare to pay for a battery issue in a car that costs 50 grand new, you shouldn't have bought the car because you can't afford it. If you can't afford to buy the car new you can't afford to buy it used.

Your buying a premium car that is going to cost tens of thousands of it goes wrong. End of story

It's like the chavs buying 16 year old 5 series and complaining about a 5 grand gearbox repair 😂

Water2626262

That’s a standard m sport that’s been tarted up. You can tell because it doesn’t have the adaptive suspension button near the gear shifter. M sport pro has adaptive plus the nicer alloys, blacked out grill and blue callipers. So I assume all the add ons to that are aftermarket.

A lot of 2020 year BMWs have intermittent issues with the Harmon kardon system. Can be fixed if there is still BMW warranty left on it but they’ll play dumb about it for a while. Well known issue. You might not notice it but if you are into your audio you will.

Dr_Colossus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914366#Comment_120914366

That's some drivel in fairness. It's a risk assessment on a significant purchase so knowing the possible downside is vital information and no one should go into such a transaction blind. If it was such a rare event BMW would handle the situation differently and offer some good will but the right to repair and all proprietary software lock-downs is concerning.

I'm not familiar with all the details facing @kirving and but have seen it referred to here occasionally and welcome the input. A PHEV would suit my needs and the 330e and 530e have been on my radar hence my reading of this thread but would be dissuaded by kirving's experience as well as another long thread in the EV forum regarding a problematic purchase and it's handling by BMW on a new i4. Problems will always occur but it's how they are treated and resolved by the company that sets reputation and future recognition of premium brands.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914366#Comment_120914366

Agreed, I don’t like how the poster tells everyone to completely avoid out of warranty 330e because of their one issue. Like I said, its probably a less than 1 in 100 event and people shouldn’t be too put off by it.

Water2626262

I can completely understand that posters anger and frustration. That being said there are an absolute ton of these vehicles operating over here across 3, 5, 7 and x5 series. Nearly half the 3 series for sale are 330e’s. If this was a common problem we’d see weekly posts here. Bmw also got their battery tech from Toyota so it was fairly established.

There is a poster here on about their 2017 2.0 tdi skoda needing a new engine. Should everyone avoid the 2.0 TDI in most vag group cars? Unfortunately you can just be very unlucky when it comes to a car purchase. Can always buy a Toyota but the bmw is miles ahead in comfort, interior and performance.

You will always have that worry with a premium car but it’s just the cost of having one.

Gumbo

I've had BMW i3, 330e and 530e currently, all out of warranty.

Only issus has been the 530e, the vanos solenoid which is on the ICE half of the car!

Its rare for a BMW battery to fail, their Battery tech has been spot on since the i3 and I say that also as a Tesla and many other EV owner.

Will there be a horror story, yes, always, same for every other car out there. just today a Skoda seized up in the main forum.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914675#Comment_120914675

What's drivel about it?

Reading your post the only thing that comes across is you cannot afford the car, you want a premium car but you can't afford the repair bills that could potentially come with it...

There is no significant battery failure, this is something OP has read about and is trying to make out is an major issue when it is not, and even if it is if he can't afford the repair he can't afford the car!

You're or the OP are essentially praying to God that BMW will cover any major faults of the car develops any..

I could afford to buy my car new but I chose not to and I didn't buy a new one because I didn't want to, if it has an 10 grand repair bill on a battery I can afford it - I hope to god it doesn't happen but I can pay for it ultimately.

Anyone buying a used luxury car if you can't afford 8 grand cash for a gearbox failure or a battery failure, then you can't afford the car and you shouldn't buy it. They are expensive new for a reason, the tech in them - they cost you ALOT of money if something goes wrong.

There is no problems with BMW batteries, I did my research before I bought the car and asked in the hybrid forums, you are going off 1 persons problems, that they are in a complete minority in their situation and talking utter shite. 99.9999999% owners are perfectly happy they just don't bother to join forums and post, and they can also afford the bills if it does happen! So they wouldn't be arsed posting to people about it

Please elaborate on what what exactly is drivel..

mickdw

If its such a rare event, why is the battery excluded from the approved used warranty. Would seem to be a complete own goal by bmw...... unless of course the insurers sh1t the bed over associated claim coats.

It is pretty crap.that bmw have all these systems locked down but I don't believe they can prevent repairs to modules or even repairs to battery where a basic cell is replaced without altering any of the electronics.

The company above offering battery repairs on units up to 2018 might just be down to the 6 year warranty from bmw covering most of the newer stuff.

kdevitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918732#Comment_120918732

I'm struggling to believe these batteries are locked down, especially given the EU requrirewment that manufactuers can't tie you down to main dealer servicing and workshops. Theres also a multitude of independent companies set up who work on them. Likewise, I can drive my i8 to Germany where an independent company will double my range with their own batteries.

Anyway, main issue with the 330e from talking to the head of serviciong at FK's is lads remapping them to get then up to big power, and then the engine pops.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918697#Comment_120918697

Expecting someone to be ok about having 8k put aside for the privilege of driving something that is borderline mass market car is drivel.

bazz26

From reading the various forums it seems the early G2x 330e models from launch in 2019 until about mid 2020 had the same 197bhp petrol engine from the standard 320i car. Then from mid 2020 onwards they then fitted the same engine found in the more powerful 258bhp 330i but it was detuned back to 197bhp for the 330e. If the car is Xdrive then it only got the 320i based engine apparently. The 330i based engine code ends in B while the 320i based engine code ends in A. The later 330i based engine is apparently more robust to tuning.

Capra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918697#Comment_120918697

A premium car? It's a 3 series. It's about as mass market as cars get in 2023. I'd say I see more 3 series on the road than any other car in the mornings.

You shouldn't have to have 8k in the bank for what is a bog standard family saloon car. It's not a performance car, it's not a luxury car. It's the second cheapest model of BMW that you can buy.

I'd say something about needing 8k in the bank to repair an M3 or something but for a standard 3 series that is ridiculous.

kanuseeme

I was just comparing the price of a 2021 jap 330e 6000km with the car mentioned here a few posts back, 21000 euro + shipping + vat+ vrt, seeing how the car is only 2 years old, I don't think duty should apply, but anyway, I was trying to find the emissions, found this instead.

Its a recall of BMW's with faulty batteries.

VEHICLE SAFETY/POLLUTION RECALL CAMPAIGN IN JAPAN Domestic/Import Vehicles CAMPAIGN No. Gai-3133 DATE 24th Nov, 2020 MANUFACTURER BMW (Japanese Importer: BMW Group Japan Corp.) DESCRIPTION OF DEFECT During the cell module production process for the high voltage battery impurities in the cells could not have been completely avoided. Due to particles remaining in the cells, the battery circuit may shorted and abnormal current flows internally, in the worst case, the vehicle fire may occur. TYPE COMMERCIAL NAME MODEL YEAR RECALLED NUMBER OF VEHICLE

3LA-5X20 BMW 330e 2020 1 ( this is the newer model)

3LA-7D30 BMW 745e 2020 1

3LA-TS20 BMW X3 xDrive30e

2020 5 3LA-TA30 BMW X5 xDrive 45e 2020 4

3LA-YU15T MINI Cooper SE Crossover A4 2020 5

TOTAL 16

BMW were still having some problems in 2020.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914366#Comment_120914366

Perhaps my advice is bit black and white, and borne out of personal experience than statistical likelihoods of a problem happening - but you don't have those stats either.

What I do know is the following:

1. BMW themselves told me it was common enough. When I asked the mechanic, whether in his experience I'd likely be looking at the high or low end of the €4-8k range, he said, to paraphrase "done a good few of these now, normally just one module, so hopefully it's the low end, but your battery is fairly bad. I give the report to the guys in Germany and they make a decision".
2. The place I did bring it to be fixed (eventually) had so much interest from others with the same problem, that the owner of the company actually bought a working car for himself to help reverse engineer the issue, and that when I was in the workshop, there was still one totally disabled 330e, and another BMW hybrid model sitting waiting to be fixed.

Yes, I did say in my post that it was impossible for third parties to work on it - which isn't entirely true. However, there is one place in Ireland, who can only fix certain issues, I got no warranty (that has since changed, but comes at a price), and the car can never go near BMW again as far as I'm aware, lest a software update disable the fix. It's not back to 100%, but tbh is in a good condition. It still costs a fortune, but does at least seem to be capped below the BMW lower limit.

Secondly, the owner of the company who did fix it, told me he didn't want it advertised, as BMW themselves might have issue with it and try to stop him. It seems since, that he's changed his mind, and is now advertising. I had actually PM'd someone else who was looking for advice in the meantime though.

As for your thoughts on keeping €8k lying around should a problem arise, that's fine if it were a part that cost that, and I actually got some usage from this premium part before it broke.

But it's isn't, it's a €644.07 + VAT part, which costs over €3k to fit because reasons. Oh, and to add insult to injury another €227 + VAT for replacement bolts - none of which are torqued to any serious level so could be reused, but who cares when a customer is paying. I could afford the fix no problem, I just refused to as it's taking the piss out of me for what should be a warranty issue if BMW wanted to maintain their reputation.

As you probably notice, I don't really seem to care about absolutely slating my own car's resale value, and by extension yours too. You seem to be much more concerned about that than I am. Can you not afford it or something?

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120915271#Comment_120915271

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120916005#Comment_120916005

I don't have an issue with the battery tech, or cost of the parts specifically. I think they're pretty reliable overall, it's just that when something does go wrong (over 6yrs / 100k km), your options to have it fixed are unbelievably limited due to BMW's refusal to support third parties.

You're paying main dealer rates (and they won't tell you how many hours), to plug out an old battery and plug in a new one effectively. I hope that changes, but until then, they're hard to recommend IMO.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120928490#Comment_120928490

So you’ve basically been lying the whole time and you knew all along that it could be repaired outside of BMW? And not only that, you actually got it repaired outside of BMW too? Yet still insisted here that it was main dealer only costing €8k+ ?

Very strange post all together, why don’t you tell us all where you got it repaired and how much it cost to repair? I would love to know myself for future use and it would definitely help other posters here too. Instead of scaring them out of BMW ownership.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120928503#Comment_120928503

Many independent garages will work on them no problem.

HB Dennis on Swords Road in Dublin.

John Earls Motors in Arklow.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120928644#Comment_120928644

The whole time? You mean one post in this thread, which I then corrected?

To my knowledge, my car was the first in Ireland with this issue to be fixed outside of the BMW network, a matter of weeks ago. Yes, I should have said "nigh on impossible", but I know too that not all issues can be fixed still, and (up to a few weeks ago), there was another bricked car sitting in the same workshop, after another garage messed up trying to fix it. I waited about 6 months from first calling, for a fix to be devised.

I got it fixed by Vitronix. At the time he specifically said that he didn't want it advertised as they were unsure if they could stand over the work. I won't say how much I paid, as I got a discount for A) being a guinea pig, and B) no warranty, but it was still in the thousands, and battery capacity (kWh, not range) is still down about 45% from when it was new.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929264#Comment_120929264

Will either of those open up a battery and replace a module do you know? I'd love to hear that they could, but I spent a long time calling every garage I could find, including those two you mention - they couldn't help. Maybe that has since changed - I'll check it out again and report back.

Even putting a battery from a crashed car is problematic, because the contactors cannot be reset without a BMW EOS Tester, which are in very short supply. I found one in the UK, but would have required me to bring the car there, and purchase a second hand, untestable battery.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933140#Comment_120933140

I’ve seen the lads in HB Denis working on the batteries while I was in getting alignment on their Hunter Machine.

John Earls are very active in Facebook showing repairs. They’ve many posts on the 30e range from BMW.

Id like to think that they could or not far from it.

mickdw

I made a warranty enquiry with bmw in relation to a 2017 740e they have for sale.

They came back after going away to check and stated that there is 2 year warranty on the high voltage battery from date of sale.

This seems to be at odds with what is stated here.

Scullso

I’d love a bit of advice from yourselves who seem to be in the know:

Looking to swap out our 2014 Audi A3 and go PHEV since a charger is already on the house.

We were going to go with the 2022 Kia Sorento K4 trim (I love tech bells and whistles on cars and wanted the boot space of a 7 seater for our pram and dog stuff when we go down the country to visit family)

however, husbands dream car is BMW X5 and with a new baby and maternity leave finances, the Kia isn’t sensible budget-wise anyway.

This x5 is for sale with exceptionally low mileage for the price, contacting the seller tomorrow, could yous advise what I should be asking? My dad is a car nut and usually hand-holds car purchases for me but he isn’t confident in his EV knowledge and is also on holidays so can’t come to view.

Is there a way to know the mileage hasn’t been clocked? How do we know what battery is actually performing at? Surely at this mileage the car wouldn’t even have had a timing belt change yet?

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-x5-40e-hybrid-only-29k-miles/37207265

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122308389#Comment_122308389

Check the service history and do a history check and it will show any mileage discrepancies.

Tell the seller to fully charge the battery and take it on a good test drive.

Pretty sure that engine uses a timing chain not a timing belt?

R.O.R

Avoid the 40e X5's - they give frequent issues, and that's why they are cheap.

The 45e (or newer 50e) are much better, but quite a bit more expensive.

Taking a chance on a 40e isn't worth it.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122309951#Comment_122309951

I'd agree - a friend of mine with a much lower mileage, but otherwise identical 330e to mine has just had a bill in the thousands (although less than the €7k BMW quoted), and weeks without the car, to sort an issue with the EME that caused a total lockout of the HV system, meaning that the 12V system wasn't being charged, so the car died on the road.

I posted before as to why I was at first cagey about suggesting (to anyone who read this pubic page for years to come) that you could go outside of a BMW main dealer to have issues fixed - but given that Vitronix are now advertising this service themselves, and seem to be able to fix more than one issue, they're who I'd recommend.

https://vitronix.ie/home/hybrid-battery/bmw-plug-in-hybrid/

Still, I wouldn't be buying and BMW PHEV out of warranty - failures just seem too common.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311292#Comment_122311292

There is not a lot of failures, there are literally hundreds of these things for sale at the moment some with incredible mileage.

Hundreds of thousands across the world and there are no recalls etc and the vast majority of drivers have never had a problem. The only people who will ever post on the internet about something like this are the minority of people who have had or know someone who's has a failure.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313161#Comment_122313161

I know this is kind of anacdotal, but your man Vitronix put a video on TikTok of his workshop full of BMW 330e in for hybrid repairs. Like 5 or 6 cars. So they must be failing somewhat regularly outside of warranty

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGepQb6gk/