justifying cost of Eddi installation?

bittihuduga

we have 6 solar panels on roof; gas heating in the house

no EV car.

after reading reviews around Eddi, i thought of getting it for heating water instead of sending it back to grid.

i contacted few via email and contact form.

one company responded and visited home.

i was given a price of 800 euros plus vat (not sure how much vat for these kind of green energy stuff) for Eddi and Harvi.

I was told harvi is needed to communicate wirelessly.

is this right price as per current market?

is it worth 800+ for heating water on long run?

thanks

Alkers

How much do you pay per unit of gas?

What is your FIT unit rate?

Then workout the difference that you save by heating from excess instead of gas. E.g. if your FIT was 15c and you're paying 25c for gas, each unit of excess PV that goes into your hot water tank, saves you 25c. However you are forfeiting 15c from FIT so only saving 10c (at best, excluding losses).

Divide the cost of the Eddi by the per unit saving to see how many units you need to breakeven. Then estimate how long to reach that number, bearing in mind the warranty and lifespan of the Eddi ...

bullit_dodger

The short answer is "No".

The longer answer is that an Eddi will never pay for itself. If getting an ROI on the device and seeing if €800 is worth it....then the answer definetely is no. The reason is that you will get paid for units you export to the grid. At the moment, this is €0.20 / unit. So you would be better off exporting any excess electricity and getting paid for it than using it to heat water, which you could do with either night rate electricity €0.10-12/unit, or via your gas boiler for probably in about the same cost.

All that said, I have one and it's kinda nice having it even though I know it's technically not "saving" me money. The reason is, when I got mine they were about €500 each, and there was no feed-in-tarrif, so exporting excess we didn't get paid for it. So it made complete sense back then. I've since gotten used to the hot water available on demand for 8-9 months of the year.

ColemanY2K

would i be right in saying an eddi makes no sense whatsoever for those with a house run entirely on electric i.e. no gas or oil heating system?

my understanding is that the PV system would power the heat pump on the days when there's excess generation (heating the water in the cylinder as a result) with the excess sent to the EV or grid which has nothing to do with eddi.

obviously when there's no excess eddi is not going to be of any use anyway so i struggle to see the logic of putting an eddi into a house entirely powered by electricity. am i missing anything?

randombar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797355#Comment_120797355

I sold mine and bought it again 😂 I have solar thermal so thought I didn't need it.

I have a night rate so actual export doesn't come into it.

So it's cheaper for me to heat the water in the winter with night rate immersion rather than oil

The Eddi gives me the controls to do this easily.

TheWonderLlama

Mine malfunctioned and I couldn't get it to connect again so i got the electrician to get rid if it altogether and install a timer on the immersion, much easier.

bittihuduga

thanks for comments. i read it here, its more of nice to have than huge savings

Nelbert

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120798918#Comment_120798918

I think it still makes sense.

My heat pump asks the immersion heater to take over above 55⁰. Mainly seen in legionella cycle.

However the heat pump has no granular control like the Eddi.... So say your excess is 700w the Eddi can take that and put it in to the immersion without creating a draw from the grid.... My heat pump kicks in and it's pulling multiples of that and keeps going till water hits the set temp and you wouldn't want to interrupt it cause some clouds rolled in.

No whether it makes financial sense with FIT now is another thing but if you value flexibility (I do) it could be worthwhile. A low use of the immersion via Eddi for a few hours with solar excess could eliminate a call for heat and heat pump firing up a reheat cycle during the eventual peak day rates we'll all see via smart meters.

celtic_oz

if you have the old meter and on deemed FIT (like me!) the eddi means I heat water for free, which makes the pay back quicker

On a separate note is there talk of being forced into smart meters soon and deemed FIT ending on a specific date ?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120799245#Comment_120799245

Haven't heard on a date for the deemed fit to be ending, but Its likely to happen when they have the majority of DN on smart meters.

bullit_dodger

Your sort of right. But as Graememk mentions above there's a vast number of us out there at the moment on "deemed export". Meaning that we have the non-smart meters and get paid an estimated amount based on the size of the inverter. So if I export say 1000Kwhr or 0 Kwhr I actually get paid EXACTLY the same. So it makes sense to use every kwhr of power that the panels generate, be it on bitcoin mining, heating the house, into the eddi etc

So for these people (incl me) an Eddi is paying for itself as it's helping me use all that power I'm getting paid to export, but not! :)

When this "deemed export" situation ends, the fiscal feasibility of an Eddi will most likely change to non-starter. Why? Well i sort of mentioned it above, for people on D/N smart meters, whenever they get that tariff sorted. They could heat up the water at €0.10/kwh at 8am. If it's a decent insulated tank that will keep the water hot for 12-16 hrs or so, or at least hot enough for a shower. Then during the day I'd export the excess power and get €0.20 for it. The alternative is I don't heat my tank from night rate and heat it from "excess", but then I'd lose out on the extra money from the FIT.

If the Eddi was €500 I'd probably buy one again in the morning (and still lose money). For €800 I'd pass. it's too much for just the convience factor.

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120799693#Comment_120799693

the eddi is €535 on the myenergi.ie website. what am i missing that brings the cost up to €800?

fwiw in the UK they can be bought for the equivalent of €440 new.

if i can get my hands on one for €440 i think it would be worth if it meant the heat pump came on less as outlined by @Nelbert above (in my case the hot water is supplied solely by the heat pump, i.e. no OFCH or gas supply).

randombar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120799827#Comment_120799827

For IE, Kellehers in Cork are selling cheaper than MyEnergi direct, was onto MyEnergi and their business model in IE is to sell more expensive than wholesalers.

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120800011#Comment_120800011

hmm interesting. i have to pop in there in a few weeks for something else, will have a look.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120799245#Comment_120799245

Do you have a 24hr meter (not a D/N one) and you still get deemed FIT? CRU told me in writing I wasn't entitled to it for my 24hr meter when I went chasing why I didn't get it when NC6 was submitted. Do you have any comms from CRU or anyone on it so I could ask CRU to reconsider it? I never refused a smart meter, their rationale is smart meters are available so I don't get paid FIT until I move to one.

hick

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BTCPBQ7N?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

got this about 2 months ago, very easy to install and set up. Good ratings (electrical) too.

have it sitting between my immersion and the main isolator spur. Works with Smart life App and Alex/google home

just working on getting my Tuya account linked up to Home Assistant and then will set up a rule to diver excess to the immersion, for the time being I just tell Alexa to turn on the immersion. Normally the tank is heated by the heat pump, so no real benefit for and Eddi which is why I hunted this out.

basically an Eddi for €30 quid

tnegun

Beyond having a timer/schedule thats nothing like an Eddi, it's just an expensive smart switch for an immersion. One of the biggest selling points for the Eddi is that it can variably divert whatever is being exported to a resistive load/immersion heater so it will never import to heat the water.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120799245#Comment_120799245

Is that a meter that goes backwards? Which supplier is paying you FIT with a 24hr meter?

Nelbert

Yeah that smart switch while good amp rating wise for an immersion as tnegun said it lacks the ability of the Eddi to scale energy in to the immersion to match what would otherwise be exported.

On / off is one thing.... The Eddi is like a dimmer for the immersion with the automation to match the level to export built in.

There's a value to that convenience and while technically if you could source a variable output with the right amp rating that was smart you could roll your own, is that worth the effort Vs an end user ready to go product with warranty etc? I dunno. It would have to be €100 or less for me Vs approx 500 for the Eddi.

bittihuduga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120799827#Comment_120799827

its from one of the suppliers in dublin. 800 includes eddi and harvi and installation and setup.

i was told harvi is needed to connect everything together wirelessly and use it via app

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120800943#Comment_120800943

The new Eddi has wi fi capabilities so doesn't need a harvi afaik. The old one has one antenna and the new one has two. Disregard that information! See below.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120800962#Comment_120800962

Harvi is for wireless CTs so no CT wires have to be run

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801163#Comment_120801163

Sorry, mixed up the harvi and hub there I think.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120799827#Comment_120799827

Not sure why your asking me.... I was referring to post #1 in this thread. Specifically.....

i was given a price of 800 euros plus vat (not sure how much vat for these kind of green energy stuff) for Eddi and Harvi.

I was told harvi is needed to communicate wirelessly.

is this right price as per current market?

is it worth 800+ for heating water on long run?

Again, for €500 or so you'd still be making a loss I think financially - but I'd go again for the convienience. €800 on the other hand....nah.

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801236#Comment_120801236

Ah my bad I didn't click you were referring to the OP.

pete

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120800185#Comment_120800185

I've been meaning to do this for months now. One of these + some basic home assistant automation is a hell of a lot cheaper than an eddi.

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801503#Comment_120801503

Yeah I was thinking of something like this:

It obviously doesn't have the a partial load capability of an Eddi as described above, but I reckon for a tenth of the price, it will achieve about 75% of the savings.

https://itead.cc/product/sonoff-powr3/

graememk

Sonoff stuff are good, Picked one up recently too.

Very hackable too, Flashed it with tasmota to keep everything local.

daheff

I looked at getting an Eddi. I was told by a supplier that basically all it does is turn on the immersion once a preset amount of electricity is being generated by your PV panels.

So unless you set your threshold at/above the amount needed to run the immersion, you are using electricity from the grid as well as your PV panels?

Is that understanding correct? If so, it doesn't really make sense to use an Eddi unless you can generate enough solar electricity to more than cover the immersion load.

tnegun

No that's incorrect the immersion can run at 1w or 3000w(if its a 3kw immersion) if you're producing 1500w and the house using 500w the excess 1000w will be sent to the immersion. You can also boost and in this example with a 3000w immersion element 1000w would come from solar and 2000w from the grid. The maths all varies slightly with voltage but the principle is the same the Eddi once setup properly will never import to heat water unless using the boost function in normal operation it will just use the available solar excess that would be exported to the grid.

celtic_oz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120800089#Comment_120800089

I have a D/N, but you should get deemed FIT for 24

celtic_oz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120800326#Comment_120800326

No, its the normal digital meter with D/N before smart meters came in. Was on Energia now on Flogas, all providers must pay deemed AFAIK and its not dependent on whether its 24 hour or D/N just that its NOT a smart meter because non smart meters cant tell how much you export.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120811916#Comment_120811916

Deemed fit is only for MCC02 D/N now. They changed it

celtic_oz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120811938#Comment_120811938

My bad, didnt know that

paulbok

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120811938#Comment_120811938

I have the old type mcc01 meter and just got my deemed fit for last month.

Is the change only for newer PV installs?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812117#Comment_120812117

Must be for new signups or contract renewals then, because as per current CRU and ESBn agreed methodology, the entitlement to FIT is based on eligibility for smart meter. All MCC01 are now Eligible so would not qualify. Unless your location due to cell coverage or something was marked as ineligible I'd suspect you'd be grandfathered in or something. I'd probably keep schtum just in case! (See below, criteria defined by meter type and not by location, with an opt back in by location)

https://rmdservice.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/MCR1213-Interim-Retail-Market-Microgen-Solution.pdf

Deemed export: To be eligible for remuneration based on deemed export quantities, a renewables self-consumer must meet the following criteria: • the renewables self-consumer must meet the definition included in REDII; • the renewables-self consumer must have installed microgeneration and must have • informed ESBN of their intention to install microgeneration via a declaration using the NC6 or equivalent form; and • their meter type is not eligible for a smart meter installation as part of the ESBN led deployment approach under the NSMP at this time or they are eligible for a smart meter installation but unable to have a smart meter installed for other reasons outside of their control. Under the deemed export quantity arrangements, the deemed quantity calculated and provisioned by ESBN is the final determination of the quantity of export for which customers are to be paid by suppliers

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812174#Comment_120812174

Regarding cell coverage. Any idea what the situation will be for those who cannot have a smart meter installed due to poor cell coverage?

Are they likely to be denied FIT once the deemed export scheme ends?

My new house has iffy cell coverage at times. All to do with rolling hills and forestry between the house and the nearest mast. If I'm denied a smart meter then the argument for a large battery bank becomes stronger. I'm just wondering as I'll be moving into the house in the autumn.

paulbok

My meters are inside the house, maybe they reckon there'd be connection issues, though I would think it'd be ok with 2g?

Anyway, that's just another reason why I don't want to give up my old meter 😉

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120811916#Comment_120811916

Sadly nope. CRU confirmed to me in writing that 24hr meters are not eligible for FIT. There reason is I could change to a smart one if I wished.

ELM327

They need 2G cell coverage, and apparently they send updates every 30 minutes back to the mothership. There are different MCC for smart meters, 12 and 16, and the difference is the quality of cell coverage apparently.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120811916#Comment_120811916

Apparently no, a few people checked it.

Only day/night get the deemed fit.

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797355#Comment_120797355

Putting FIT aside for a minute your last sentence is pertinent to a lot of people, in my case I'll soon have a D/N meter which strengthens the case for an Eddi (guaranteed payment no matter what).

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849162#Comment_120849162

Putting FIT aside for a minute your last sentence is pertinent to a lot of people, in my case I'll soon have a D/N meter which strengthens the case for an Eddi (guaranteed payment no matter what).

True - being on a D/N tariff with deemed export does help. I'm on it too so exporting (or not exporting and using those units via the Eddi) I get paid the same regardless. However, this to be fair is only a short term situation, but the end of 2024 or sooner, we'll all be on measured export via smart meters. So the "savings" you'll generate via the Eddi will be short lived. Certainly not enough to recoup the cost of the device and installation. They are about to start rolling out a new smart meter which is capable of doing the D/N tariffs. Certainly it's coming in Autumn 2023 anyway.

If I was buying today, for €500 I'd think hard about it, but probably would purchase it. For €800 I think I'd pass. The cost is just too exorbitant for the benefits (however convenient they are) for it to be worth it.

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849502#Comment_120849502

yeah at 800 its expensive... so it really depends if you want it or dont, like all purchases.. very few things. pay for themselves.. it doesnt have to be the only criteria.. i doubt ours will ever pay for itself... and i use the gas to heat the water tank from 6 to 7 every morning anyway but the eddi does boost it on sunny afternoon.. with a new insulated hot water tank the water stays fairly warm anyway so it doesnt need a lot of boosting.. also the geek in me just likes seeing it in the app and having another home automation device

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849502#Comment_120849502

I've just signed up to the 12 month Flogas night saver tariff. I hope that the deemed export will be guaranteed for the length of the contract.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849630#Comment_120849630

The deemed export is something supplied by ESBN. Once the DN compatible SM are being installed the deemed fit will stop, but don't know when.

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849705#Comment_120849705

Gotcha. So in theory my D/N meter might only be in a wet week before being swapped out for a smart D/N.

I'm not overly bothered as I like the idea of the Eddi.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849851#Comment_120849851

If it's an ESBN contractor fitting the new meter when they do get in touch ask to be put to the back their list if it benefits you more. I did and they will get to me last. Just don't refuse any smart meter because you might loose future FIT entitlements afaik.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849851#Comment_120849851

AFAIK you need to pay to change to a smart meter from a D/N. That's what Energia told me about a year ago but person I was talking too didn't seem sure. Said it was free to move from 24hr to D/N. But then have some charge for the smart meter change install. So that might be true or might not. No harm for people to ask their provider if that's the case and the cost if moving to a D/N now.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849851#Comment_120849851

Getting a smart DN is the "best of both worlds"

A metered FIT, and still keeping the better DN rates.

The eddi has a great convenience factor though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120850316#Comment_120850316

There won't be a charge to move to a DN SM as it's esb networks looking for the change not you.

Not your fault that the esbn wants to change their meter.